Can A Christian Have a Demon In Them?

[DevotiontoBible]

i have been in deliverances where christians have been set free, from depression and all manner of oppressions and demons have been seen leaving....

Your hermeneutics is based on experience and not the Scriptures. The Scriptures tell us that a demon cannot be in a believer to "leave" them. Therefore, you either witnessed real demons leaving non-believers -or- fake demon manifestations from believers who have decieved themselves into thinking they have demons in them.

 

[mccar1969]

Your hermeneutics is based on experience and not the Scriptures. The Scriptures tell us that a believer cannot be in a believer to "leave" them. Therefore, you either witnessed real demons leaving non-believers -or- fake demon manifestations from believers who have decieved themselves into thinking they have demons in them.

Interesting , i know there is alot of fake around... txs again

 

[JEBrady]

Referring to Hymenaeus and Philetus is the comment that they do not belong to the Lord because they have not turned away from wickedness:

2 Tim. 2:19 (NLT)
... "The Lord knows those who are his," and "Those who claim they belong to the Lord must turn away from all wickedness."

You can read it to mean they aren't Christians, but I believe the point of this passage is to instruct Timothy what to do and what not to do as a minister of the Gospel, and the treatment of Hymenaeus and Philetus is incomplete. One thing that is clear is that they are going in the wrong direction. It is also clear that nothing indicates that the two were turned over to Satan. My comments on that are already stated. I don't understand that action to be applicable to non-Christians.

Another point to think about is that it unequivocally states in the case of 1 Co 5 that the sexually perverse brother turned over to Satan was turned over in order to prevent him from being lost. He certainly had not turned away from all wickedness, had he? He was going in the wrong direction as well, and obviously without some intervention could well lose his salvation. And yet, he is called a brother and it is stated that this action is to save his spirit. In the case of Hymenaeus and Philetus, they are not handling the Word of God accurately, and damaging the faith of some. Is this worse than perversion? God knows.

With respect to being taken captive by Satan, it is obvious that those who are taken captive still have the possibility of repentance, as directly stated in this passage. That is certainly not possible for those who are no longer Christians. The determining factor is whether one has the Spirit. God is longsuffering toward us, and His mercy is beyond our understanding. There is a line which a man can cross and the Spirit will leave him. At that point there is nothing left but a fearful expectation of judgment and raging fire that will devour the enemies of God. But we will not naturally be able to discern that. It is revealed by the Lord. Just as God told Samuel not to pray any longer for Saul, we also can fail of God's grace. When that happens, it is permanant. God will deal even with a backslider in deep sin, still contending with him. It is up to God alone to state when the final line is crossed.

If the passage about being taken captive refers to Hymenaeus and Philetus, then they have to be Christians. The Holy Spirit doesn't come and go and come and go depending on a Christian's behavior. If we still believe, there's still something to be worked with. Once we apostasize though, it's over.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

You can read it to mean they aren't Christians, but I believe the point of this passage is to instruct Timothy what to do and what not to do as a minister of the Gospel, and the treatment of Hymenaeus and Philetus is incomplete. One thing that is clear is that they are going in the wrong direction. It is also clear that nothing indicates that the two were turned over to Satan. My comments on that are already stated. I don't understand that action to be applicable to non-Christians.

Another point to think about is that it unequivocally states in the case of 1 Co 5 that the sexually perverse brother turned over to Satan was turned over in order to prevent him from being lost. He certainly had not turned away from all wickedness, had he? He was going in the wrong direction as well, and obviously without some intervention could well lose his salvation. And yet, he is called a brother and it is stated that this action is to save his spirit. In the case of Hymenaeus and Philetus, they are not handling the Word of God accurately, and damaging the faith of some. Is this worse than perversion? God knows.

With respect to being taken captive by Satan, it is obvious that those who are taken captive still have the possibility of repentance, as directly stated in this passage. That is certainly not possible for those who are no longer Christians. The determining factor is whether one has the Spirit. God is longsuffering toward us, and His mercy is beyond our understanding. There is a line which a man can cross and the Spirit will leave him. At that point there is nothing left but a fearful expectation of judgment and raging fire that will devour the enemies of God. But we will not naturally be able to discern that. It is revealed by the Lord. Just as God told Samuel not to pray any longer for Saul, we also can fail of God's grace. When that happens, it is permanant. God will deal even with a backslider in deep sin, still contending with him. It is up to God alone to state when the final line is crossed.

If the passage about being taken captive refers to Hymenaeus and Philetus, then they have to be Christians. The Holy Spirit doesn't come and go and come and go depending on a Christian's behavior. If we still believe, there's still something to be worked with. Once we apostasize though, it's over.

Paul doesn't refer to them as "brothers" as he did to the immoral person in 1 Cor 5. Instead, Paul refers to them as not true believers but someone who has "shipwrecked faith" 1 Ti 1:20, "left the path of truth" 2 ti 2v18, is not acknowledged by God to be "his"v19, are not "the Lord's servants"v24, "held captive by the devil"v26. As you admit they are backsliders and no longer believers therefore they can have a demon in them. God will only re-enter them by their repentance. God lives in someone by repentance and faith. God does not occupy a person who turns their back on Him.

 

[mccar1969]

what does hermeneutics mean ?

 

[DevotiontoBible]

what does hermeneutics mean ?

It means to explain or interpret. It's the theory of understanding the meaning of a passage, including analysis of the text, its intentionality, its context, and the customs and culture of the human author. The Bible can't be read as one would go about reading the newspaper or in your case, interpret the Bible based on your overiding experiences.

 

[JEBrady]

Paul doesn't refer to them as "brothers" as he did to the immoral person in 1 Cor 5. Instead, Paul refers to them as not true believers but someone who has "shipwrecked faith" 1 Ti 1:20, "left the path of truth" 2 ti 2v18, is not acknowledged by God to be "his"v19, are not "the Lord's servants"v24, "held captive by the devil"v26. As you admit they are backsliders and no longer believers therefore they can have a demon in them. God will only re-enter them by their repentance. God lives in someone by repentance and faith. God does not occupy a person who turns their back on Him.

I don't think we define Christian the same way. At any rate, we don't agree about God leaving and re-entering a person. You can only be born again once.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

I don't think we define Christian the same way. At any rate, we don't agree about God leaving and re-entering a person. You can only be born again once.

That is the problem with the demonized Christian doctrine. It loosly defines what is a Christian and then its claims of Christians having demons in them is verified.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

At any rate, we don't agree about God leaving and re-entering a person. You can only be born again once.

I agree with you on that. Apostasy is final. Hebrews 6:4-6 (NLT)
For it is impossible to restore to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, [5] who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come— [6] and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people to repentance again because they are nailing the Son of God to the cross again by rejecting him, holding him up to public shame.

 

[BroGinder]

Lam 5:16
16 The crown is fallen from our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned!
KJV

Rev 3:11
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
KJV

I do not carry the same thought that you can only be saved once, that would not leave room for the back slider to return back to Grace. I do not believe once saved always saved. I find no scripture to cover once saved always saved either. If youc an provide I would be pleased if you would share it with me please. (Sincere request, I hate the lack of voice infliction)

Devotiontobible, thank you for causing me to seek deeper for understanding. I totally understand what you are saying about the physical control thing.

Now as to demon possession, a demon (evil spirit) what ever you want to call it, it is clearly not God. If you indeed have the Holy Ghost intact, you can NOT be possessed by a demon spirit. Light and Darkness can not dwell in the same place.

A demon spirit can cause us to be depressed, or oppressed through suggestive thoughts. It is not possible for the spirits or the devil himself, to read your mind or your heart. However, they can barrage your mind with thoughts that become consuming and make it difficult to pray, or to be joyful, etc...

This leaves a door open for "pressed down, shaken together, and running over" blessing of the Holy Ghost to be exhausted in you. Meaning the negative thoughts are consuming more of your time, hence causeing you to have serious spiritual issues.

God can not live where sin is. If you, through these thoughts, fall into unrepented sin, then there grows room for darkness and the possibility changes.

If you have unrepented sin in your life God can not dwell in a dirty vessel.

God Bless

 

[mccar1969]

Lam 5:16
16 The crown is fallen from our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned!
KJV

Rev 3:11
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
KJV

I do not carry the same thought that you can only be saved once, that would not leave room for the back slider to return back to Grace. I do not believe once saved always saved. I find no scripture to cover once saved always saved either. If youc an provide I would be pleased if you would share it with me please. (Sincere request, I hate the lack of voice infliction)

Devotiontobible, thank you for causing me to seek deeper for understanding. I totally understand what you are saying about the physical control thing.

Now as to demon possession, a demon (evil spirit) what ever you want to call it, it is clearly not God. If you indeed have the Holy Ghost intact, you can NOT be possessed by a demon spirit. Light and Darkness can not dwell in the same place.

A demon spirit can cause us to be depressed, or oppressed through suggestive thoughts. It is not possible for the spirits or the devil himself, to read your mind or your heart. However, they can barrage your mind with thoughts that become consuming and make it difficult to pray, or to be joyful, etc...

This leaves a door open for "pressed down, shaken together, and running over" blessing of the Holy Ghost to be exhausted in you. Meaning the negative thoughts are consuming more of your time, hence causeing you to have serious spiritual issues.

God can not live where sin is. If you, through these thoughts, fall into unrepented sin, then there grows room for darkness and the possibility changes.

If you have unrepented sin in your life God can not dwell in a dirty vessel.

God Bless

So when u backslide do you think that the holy spirit leaves us........ Do you think he still watches over us?
And keeps his hand on our lives......?????

 

[JEBrady]

That is the problem with the demonized Christian doctrine. It loosly defines what is a Christian and then its claims of Christians having demons in them is verified.

Why don't you expound a little on your understanding of this. I know what I think. I'm having a little trouble pulling together what you think. On some points that I see as pivotal you have answered obliquely, and that's left me with some question as to how you are putting this together in your understanding. Would you be able to do that?

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Why don't you expound a little on your understanding of this. I know what I think. I'm having a little trouble pulling together what you think. On some points that I see as pivotal you have answered obliquely, and that's left me with some question as to how you are putting this together in your understanding. Would you be able to do that?

Yes, a Biblical understanding of "Christian" is crucial to our discussion. Disciples were first called "Christians" at Antioch, and the term had meaning (Acts 11). It has lost its meaning. Tim Warner discusses the problem if syncretism, the mixing of religions:

"Its widely agreed that many, if not most, of the Christians in Africa, for example, continue to practicde forms of magic, sorcery, and divination when the circumstances of life call for it"

If we speak of Biblically, a person who continues to practice sorcery is not a Christian. Gal 5:19-21 lists the works of the flesh, including sorcery, and closes with the warning that "they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God". Those who practice divinatin, or any kind of witchcraft, will be cast into hell Rev21:8. Those who have told them they were Christians will have blood on ther hands at the Judgment Acts 20:26.

When Paul described the "perilous times" of the last days, he makes a long list of wicked people including "blasphemers", he ended the list by saying "having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof". He did not then say "Since they have a form of godliness they are godly". He said "from such turn away" 2 Ti 3:1-5. The "power thereof "is the power to "live righteously and godly in this present world" that is what grace teaches Titus 2:11,12.

Many of the books saying Christians can be inhabited by demons have no standard for what is "Christian". They describe people who have volitionally, knowingly lived in heinous sins for many years as "Christians". Many who are used in these books as Christian who need deliverance are Christian in name only.

 

[mccar1969]

You quoted "Its widely agreed that many, if not most, of the Christians in Africa, for example, continue to practicde forms of magic, sorcery, and divination when the circumstances of life call for it"




where have u got this from?

 

[DevotiontoBible]

You quoted "Its widely agreed that many, if not most, of the Christians in Africa, for example, continue to practicde forms of magic, sorcery, and divination when the circumstances of life call for it"




where have u got this from?

Tim Warner's Syllabus for Class in "Power Encounter" Deerfield IL Trinity Evangelical Divinity School 1988 Forum 5

 

[JEBrady]

Yes, a Biblical understanding of "Christian" is crucial to our discussion. Disciples were first called "Christians" at Antioch, and the term had meaning (Acts 11). It has lost its meaning. Tim Warner discusses the problem if syncretism, the mixing of religions:

"Its widely agreed that many, if not most, of the Christians in Africa, for example, continue to practicde forms of magic, sorcery, and divination when the circumstances of life call for it"

If we speak of Biblically, a person who continues to practice sorcery is not a Christian. Gal 5:19-21 lists the works of the flesh, including sorcery, and closes with the warning that "they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God". Those who practice divinatin, or any kind of witchcraft, will be cast into hell Rev21:8. Those who have told them they were Christians will have blood on ther hands at the Judgment Acts 20:26.

When Paul described the "perilous times" of the last days, he makes a long list of wicked people including "blasphemers", he ended the list by saying "having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof". He did not then say "Since they have a form of godliness they are godly". He said "from such turn away" 2 Ti 3:1-5. The "power thereof "is the power to "live righteously and godly in this present world" that is what grace teaches Titus 2:11,12.

Many of the books saying Christians can be inhabited by demons have no standard for what is "Christian". They describe people who have volitionally, knowingly lived in heinous sins for many years as "Christians". Many who are used in these books as Christian who need deliverance are Christian in name only.

The things you state about the term "Christian" are certainly true. It has limited meaning in the church, and is practically useless in the world. The principle you illustrate in your 4th paragraph is a true reading of scripture and what the doctrine of godliness is. I believe exactly what you state there, and it amazes me that it is preached so seldom. That principle is critical to our understanding of the Christian walk.

I don't personally believe demon influence is an all-or-nothing deal where a person is either totally free or totally possessed. I also don't believe the Holy Spirit comes and goes at each sin a Christian commits. If He leaves you, you're done. If He leaves a believer when that believer sins, there is no possibility for repentance, seeing as He has to draw a person into repentance. I think this is where our thinking might differ on the subject. Considering we both understand the Word around this subject, and that the mechanics of it are not spoken to in great deal, that it is really not of much consequence.

Frankly, I rejoice to see a brother who has this wisdom from God, as it's not often that I do. And that's tragically sad.

 

[BroGinder]

So when u backslide do you think that the holy spirit leaves us........ Do you think he still watches over us?
And keeps his hand on our lives......?????

If you have unrepented sin in your life I have to say yes, the Holy Ghost will withdraw from the vessel.

I believe there is a diffrence between a stumble and a slide. Of course a stumble would mean you take corrective action and remedy the problem. Sliding is more like letting go and ending up where ever gravity stops you.

I believe a calling or conviction will begin to draw you back into the Will of God. However, if you are seeking your own Will and continue on, God will honor your hearts desire. He is a gentleman and will not force himself on you.

Look at all the examples of this very thing with Israel. They would walk from the will of God, he would withdraw his blessings and protection from them. There were numerous times thousands died due to this back sliding.

They would repent get the hearts right and God would be right on time like he is always and take care of them once more. Blessing them and giving them victory after victory.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

I don't personally believe demon influence is an all-or-nothing deal where a person is either totally free or totally possessed. .

That is like saying a person who murders one person is not totally a murderer as a person who murders more than one person is. They are both murderers. A person cannot say I have a demon in me but I am not totally demon possessed.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

I also don't believe the Holy Spirit comes and goes at each sin a Christian commits. If He leaves you, you're done..

I agree with you here. I mistated something earlier. I am of the position that only unbelievers can be demon possessed and that a Christian can become an unbeliever and then get possessed. But like Esau, he can't come back even if sought by tears Heb 12:17.

 

[BroGinder]

I am enjoying so much the dialogue on this topic.

Ok here is a question hoping to maybe help gian clarity for myself and others as to some definitions. That may be the complete diffrence here.

What is it we crucify ourselves from daily?
I believe Paul was referring to sin. Address the sin in your life, not to walk in sin, not to plan sin. To be Holy as God is Holy.

With that in mind, what causes us to sin?
Where do that will come from?

I know several people who have gone through times in their life where they felt like God would not forgive them. What would cause them to feel like this?

I am not questioning anyones comments here at all. I am seeking for understanding is all. Please I hope this is not offensive in anyway. I seriously am seeking for understanding.