Can A Christian Have a Demon In Them?

[BroGinder]

I don't personally believe demon influence is an all-or-nothing deal where a person is either totally free or totally possessed....

I also don't believe the Holy Spirit comes and goes at each sin a Christian commits. If He leaves you, you're done. If He leaves a believer when that believer sins, there is no possibility for repentance, seeing as He has to draw a person into repentance.

I think I am missing something here. Trust me I am learning more and more every day I am in this forum I am enjoying it all.

As I read your statement, I can have sin in my life die and still go to heaven?

This is a serious question not being a jerk as some will suppose. This is sincere. (Maybe you can tell some have barraged me for being blunt in my questions)

 

[DevotiontoBible]

I am enjoying so much the dialogue on this topic.

Ok here is a question hoping to maybe help gian clarity for myself and others as to some definitions. That may be the complete diffrence here.

What is it we crucify ourselves from daily?
I believe Paul was referring to sin. Address the sin in your life, not to walk in sin, not to plan sin. To be Holy as God is Holy.

With that in mind, what causes us to sin?
Where do that will come from?

I know several people who have gone through times in their life where they felt like God would not forgive them. What would cause them to feel like this?

I am not questioning anyones comments here at all. I am seeking for understanding is all. Please I hope this is not offensive in anyway. I seriously am seeking for understanding.

You are asking about sanctification. The "demonized Christian" doctrine is an unbiblical approach to dealing with the sanctification of the believer. It is the age old excuse "the devil makes me do it" regarding immorality in the Christians life. Instead, as you said the believers own flesh, not demons, is the culprit "inside" of the believer. Demons are on the "outside" using temptation along with the world. We can control what is inside of us , not by being delivered of it and having it removed but by Romans 6:11-14 (NLT)
So you should consider yourselves dead to sin and able to live for the glory of God through Christ Jesus.
[12] Do not let sin control the way you live; do not give in to its lustful desires. [13] Do not let any part of your body become a tool of wickedness, to be used for sinning. Instead, give yourselves completely to God since you have been given new life. And use your whole body as a tool to do what is right for the glory of God. [14] Sin is no longer your master, for you are no longer subject to the law, which enslaves you to sin. Instead, you are free by God's grace.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

I think I am missing something here. Trust me I am learning more and more every day I am in this forum I am enjoying it all.

As I read your statement, I can have sin in my life die and still go to heaven?

This is a serious question not being a jerk as some will suppose. This is sincere. (Maybe you can tell some have barraged me for being blunt in my questions)

I'll give my answer. In the OT there was no atonement for sins done "intentionally" only for "unintentional" sins. This means out of weakness vs out of defiance to God. Sanctification, or living holy, is a progressive work that takes practice and time. In this verse Hebrews 5:14 (NLT)
Solid food is for those who are mature, who have trained themselves to recognize the difference between right and wrong and then do what is right.

trained themselves is the Greek gumnazo and is our English word gymnasium. You have to get good at this holy, sinnless life by hard work over time. But all along the way is Gods grace encouraging us to get back in there when we give in to our sinful nature instead of resisting the devils tempations.

 

[rollo]

there are several books I would recomend on this topic.. they include "they shall expell demons", "diary of an exorcist" and "war on the saints" an analogy presented in they shall expell is that when one is not saved they are like a hostel anyone who wants to can come and Go as they please. Once a person is saved they become like a privatly owned house that cannot be broken into. though the owner of the house can open the door and let in whoever he chooses. Also there are several examples in the bible of people getting deliverance before they get saved. this is not that common any more and my question is where does it say in the bible that getting saved automaticly delivers a person from everything. I would agree with those who say it is a matter of who you are surrendered to each area surrendured to God is clensed however when we hold back areas from God through unrepented sin and unforgiveness of others we are as the bible says giving the devil a foothold in our life. btw I think the greek word is demonazo not sure on spelling but the greek does not imply possession but as was said by a few demonization. possession in our modern use implies ownership and I don't think that is an accurate portrail. we all pretty much agree that christians can be attacked or as some have said oppressed. I think that if one gives into temptation then this oppression can happen and the said demon will keep working on you to make you keep giving into same temptation while trying to invite you to give into others. It is for this reason that I don't think saying somthing is Just the way one is or is just a character flaw is a good excuse. There is nothing God can't do therefore while it may seem unatainable why should we not endever to follow the comand of "be holy even as my father in hevan is holy"

 

[DevotiontoBible]

there are several books I would recomend on this topic.. they include "they shall expell demons", "diary of an exorcist" and "war on the saints" an analogy presented in they shall expell is that when one is not saved they are like a hostel anyone who wants to can come and Go as they please. Once a person is saved they become like a privatly owned house that cannot be broken into. though the owner of the house can open the door and let in whoever he chooses. Also there are several examples in the bible of people getting deliverance before they get saved. this is not that common any more and my question is where does it say in the bible that getting saved automaticly delivers a person from everything. I would agree with those who say it is a matter of who you are surrendered to each area surrendured to God is clensed however when we hold back areas from God through unrepented sin and unforgiveness of others we are as the bible says giving the devil a foothold in our life. btw I think the greek word is demonazo not sure on spelling but the greek does not imply possession but as was said by a few demonization. possession in our modern use implies ownership and I don't think that is an accurate portrail. we all pretty much agree that christians can be attacked or as some have said oppressed. I think that if one gives into temptation then this oppression can happen and the said demon will keep working on you to make you keep giving into same temptation while trying to invite you to give into others. It is for this reason that I don't think saying somthing is Just the way one is or is just a character flaw is a good excuse. There is nothing God can't do therefore while it may seem unatainable why should we not endever to follow the comand of "be holy even as my father in hevan is holy"

These books are not Scripturally dependent. I can discuss several unscriptural topics from Penne-Lewis in War on the Saints. Also, "demon possessed" is a modern translation of daimonizomai as in this new translationshows:Matthew 8:16 (NLT)
That evening many demon-possessed people were brought to Jesus. All the spirits fled when he commanded them to leave; and he healed all the sick.

 

[BroGinder]

I'll give my answer. In the OT there was no atonement for sins done "intentionally" only for "unintentional" sins. This means out of weakness vs out of defiance to God. Sanctification, or living holy, is a progressive work that takes practice and time. In this verse Hebrews 5:14 (NLT)
Solid food is for those who are mature, who have trained themselves to recognize the difference between right and wrong and then do what is right.

trained themselves is the Greek gumnazo and is our English word gymnasium. You have to get good at this holy, sinnless life by hard work over time. But all along the way is Gods grace encouraging us to get back in there when we give in to our sinful nature instead of resisting the devils tempations.

In the books of Ex/Lev/Num, the discusison of killing anothers animal was a sin. There was an atonement for both settings listed. I am not sure I follow the intentional and unintentional. No sin was forgiven, only pushed back. Even if a man went the entire year without adding anymore sin to his life, he had to make an atonement for his past sin to push it back another year.

David was referred to by God as a perfect man. He sinned alot. However, he repented back into the grace of God. Sin can not enter Heaven

John 8:34-35
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
KJV

The story of the Prodigal Son comes to mind as well. He was in his fahters house, left it and returned.

He asked for his inheritance and then went into the world. THen when he came into his right mind, returned back.

Its these instances that I find do not support once saved always saved.

Thoughts?

 

[rollo]

I am open to hearing your oppinion on these books though not sure how much that would help the conversation if you would pm me reguarding the unbiblical ideas in these books that you have found I would be thankfull.

 

[JEBrady]

That is like saying a person who murders one person is not totally a murderer as a person who murders more than one person is. They are both murderers. A person cannot say I have a demon in me but I am not totally demon possessed.

No, but if you think you can't be spoken to by a demon or have demonic pressure applied to you while the demon is outside then you aren't very knowledgeable about the action of demons (not that you want to be). Most demonic activity is not worked from inside the person- at least not a Christian. Even the vast majority of unbelievers are not demon-possessed. We're talking inhuman strength mondo bizarre full-blown possession. That's not even true of sorcerers. I've seen them before and been bothered by them before as a Christian, and they can surely do things I think you are unaware of- to a Christian from outside his body.

From the start as a Christian, I sought hard after God. I read the word hours every day. Prayed hours every day. Got up in the middle of the night to pray. Jumped out of bed as soon as I became conscious, praying and thanking God. Filled my time up with seeking Him only. Cut out all activity except work and church. If my church didn't have anything going on, I would find one who did, and was in fellowship 6 days a week. Wouldn't read the paper because it took from my time away from the Word. Got filled with the Spirit and spoke with tongues. Prophesied. Stayed full of the Holy Spirit. One day, when I discovered fasting was a way to get closer to God, I fasted. To my surprise, I felt like a piece of ice. It was the most unpleasant experience, and it didn't end until I broke the fast. This happened again the next time I did it. I don't remember now, but I think it was just a 1 or 2 day fast. Then I tried it the third time on a Wednesday and the same thing happened. I felt like I had a lobotomy. I was totally, emotionally numb, and felt cold inside. I was totally frustrated and heartbroken. In our church, we had altar service every service. I went into the altar and wept bitterly. I resolved in my heart never to fast again. I'm not talking about some sort of fleshly pouting, this was from the heart. My pastor walked over to me, laid a hand on my head and said, "You are delivered from this forever!" Immediately, the feeling lifted off of me, and I was myself again. A demon had been attacking me. It just surrounded me and turned me to stone. I had no idea at the time anything about demons, and it never occurred to me this could even happen. I had no conscious sin in my life, and was walking with God with all of my heart and strength, the best I knew how. I didn't open any door to the enemy. Not sure how this works into your theology on the subject, but I know what I know. Paul had a thorn. I suppose for a short while I had one too, just a different flavor.

The Word says to give no place to them. I think if we can follow that admonition we do well.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

they can surely do things I think you are unaware of- to a Christian from outside his body.

Maybe they can but my concern in this OP was the erroneous idea that they can be "in" a born again Chrisitian.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

I am not sure I follow the intentional and unintentional.

i.e.
Leviticus 4:2 (NLT)
"Give the Israelites the following instructions for dealing with those who sin unintentionally by doing anything forbidden by the Lord's commands.

 

[BroGinder]

i.e.
Leviticus 4:2 (NLT)
"Give the Israelites the following instructions for dealing with those who sin unintentionally by doing anything forbidden by the Lord's commands.

Lev 6:1-7
6:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 If a soul sin, and commit a trespass against the LORD, and lie unto his neighbour in that which was delivered him to keep, or in fellowship, or in a thing taken away by violence, or hath deceived his neighbour;
3 Or have found that which was lost, and lieth concerning it, and sweareth falsely; in any of all these that a man doeth, sinning therein:
4 Then it shall be, because he hath sinned, and is guilty, that he shall restore that which he took violently away, or the thing which he hath deceitfully gotten, or that which was delivered him to keep, or the lost thing which he found,
5 Or all that about which he hath sworn falsely; he shall even restore it in the principal, and shall add the fifth part more thereto, and give it unto him to whom it appertaineth, in the day of his trespass offering.
6 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD, a ram without blemish out of the flock, with thy estimation, for a trespass offering, unto the priest:
7 And the priest shall make an atonement for him before the LORD: and it shall be forgiven him for any thing of all that he hath done in trespassing therein.
KJV


Clearly there were both as I was trying to point out, I just did not do a good job of it. One can not lie without knowledge or it is not a lie.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

I am open to hearing your oppinion on these books though not sure how much that would help the conversation if you would pm me reguarding the unbiblical ideas in these books that you have found I would be thankfull.

Where is it Biblical would be easier. Penne-Lewis writes that when victory does come from demons, one never is secure in it. She writes "The believer who is dispossessed is born into the war, and compelled to fight to maintain his freedom" p253 She adds "For he discovers that even the lesser attacks, which, before the time of his deception and possesion, would be unfelt, quickly overwhelm him, and cause him to lose his equilibrium, or spiritual balance, immediately" p254

But the Bible shows that a believer comes out victorious over demons! These verses offer hope rather than terror for the believer:

James 4:7 (NLT)
... Resist the Devil, and he will flee from you.

1 John 4:4 (NLT)
...the Spirit who lives in you is greater than the spirit who lives in the world.

1 John 5:18 (NLT)
We know that those who have become part of God's family do not make a practice of sinning, for God's Son holds them securely, and the evil one cannot get his hands on them.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Lev 6:1-7
6:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 If a soul sin, and commit a trespass against the LORD, and lie unto his neighbour in that which was delivered him to keep, or in fellowship, or in a thing taken away by violence, or hath deceived his neighbour;
3 Or have found that which was lost, and lieth concerning it, and sweareth falsely; in any of all these that a man doeth, sinning therein:
4 Then it shall be, because he hath sinned, and is guilty, that he shall restore that which he took violently away, or the thing which he hath deceitfully gotten, or that which was delivered him to keep, or the lost thing which he found,
5 Or all that about which he hath sworn falsely; he shall even restore it in the principal, and shall add the fifth part more thereto, and give it unto him to whom it appertaineth, in the day of his trespass offering.
6 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD, a ram without blemish out of the flock, with thy estimation, for a trespass offering, unto the priest:
7 And the priest shall make an atonement for him before the LORD: and it shall be forgiven him for any thing of all that he hath done in trespassing therein.
KJV


Clearly there were both as I was trying to point out, I just did not do a good job of it. One can not lie without knowledge or it is not a lie.

I was quoting from the beginning of the Sin Offering. You are quoting from the Guilt Offering but it begins with Leviticus 5:14-15 (NLT)
Then the Lord said to Moses, [15] "If any of the people sin by unintentionally defiling the Lord's sacred property, they must bring to the Lord a ram from the flock as their guilt offering. The animal must have no physical defects, and it must be of the proper value in silver as measured by the standard sanctuary shekel.

 

[JEBrady]

Maybe they can but my concern in this OP was the erroneous idea that they can be "in" a born again Chrisitian.

At least, in one who still has the Spirit, and I agree. It's going to be hard to narrow the scope of such a conversation to this alone, though, so a fuller discussion of demonic activity is bound to arise.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

At least, in one who still has the Spirit, and I agree. It's going to be hard to narrow the scope of such a conversation to this alone, though, so a fuller discussion of demonic activity is bound to arise.

I agree and that is too bad because the information on demonic activity in the Bible is so insignificant compared to other topics. Yet, too many spend so much time and energy on this insignificant topic and then begin building things into it that are not found in the Bible.

 

[JEBrady]

I agree and that is too bad because the information on demonic activity in the Bible is so insignificant compared to other topics. Yet, too many spend so much time and energy on this insignificant topic and then begin building things into it that are not found in the Bible.

Wizeone's post about the deliverance forum illustrates to me the unhealthiness of concentrating on a "side issue" when more important Biblical matters are at hand.

You hit the nail on the head by stating we need to concentrate on dealing with our flesh, since that is the hook the devil uses to draw us away. Extensive knowledge of how the devil works becomes less important overall if we're preventing him access through obedience to the Word. We know he's there to help us fall, and we're not to be ignorant of his devices, but far more effort is expended in keeping the flesh under, as anyone who's walked it out will know. You are right- there's a lot of work involved in the sanctification process.

 

[tonysma]

We addressed this in another thread not to long ago but I to correctly answer this question we have to first define how the Bible words having a demon. There is only one word in the Bible for this it sounds in the greek like it is spelt in English for our purposes here. Demonization is the word used. It means to be demonized now the severity to which someone is demonized is different depending on the person. Clearly the person who had legion was more demonized than the child with the deaf and mute and spirit. The level of demonization I believe is in realation to the surrendered life of the believer. You see the enemy feasts on that which we do not yield over to God. Therefore the areas we have not surrendered to the Lord the devil and is demons can feast on the and demonize those areas becasue they are not under the Lordship and authority of our Lord.

I hope this helps.

did you ever wonder how a deaf and mute spirit would know it was being cast out?

 

[Godslilgurlalways]

Can A Christian be demon posessed, oppressed, demonized, in need of deliverance?

I wouldn't say possess by one but they could have one in them

 

[oneshot012]

did you ever wonder how a deaf and mute spirit would know it was being cast out?

Don't understand your question but if you follow the thread do to not being able to provide enough scholarly information I stood corrected until I find something else.

 

[Svt4Him]

I agree and that is too bad because the information on demonic activity in the Bible is so insignificant compared to other topics. Yet, too many spend so much time and energy on this insignificant topic and then begin building things into it that are not found in the Bible.

Do you know if someone doesn't like the gifts of the Spirit, we all spend too much time on the gifts of the Spirit. If someone doesn't like healing, we all spend too much time on healing. Honestly if this is too insignificant, don't read anymore.

Demonology is one aspect of Christianity. We are told we would cast out demons. We are told we battle against demons. We are told the devil is walking around.

Be sober and self-controlled. Be watchful. Your adversary the devil, walks around like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

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Demonology is one spoke in a wheel. It can be used to set people free. If that is true, then to the one who may need it, they probably need to hear about it.

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