Can a Christian defend himself OR others? (Defensive killing)

expos4ever

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2008
10,592
5,732
Montreal, Quebec
✟248,004.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:

Psalm 18:34 He teaches my hands to make war, So that my arms can bend a bow of bronze
OK, then, if we are going to take this line of reasoning, consider this from the lips / pen of David:

How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones Against the rock.

Are you onboard with this?
 
Upvote 0

-57

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2015
8,699
1,957
✟70,048.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
An elderly woman had just returned to her home from an evening of religious service when she was startled by an intruder. As she caught the man in the act of robbing her home of its valuables, she yelled, ‘Stop -Acts 2:38!’ (..turn from your sin…).

The burglar stopped dead in his tracks. The woman calmly called the police and explained what she had done.

As the officer cuffed the man to take him in, he asked the burglar, ‘Why did you just stand there? All she did was yell a scripture to you.’ ‘Scripture?’ replied the burglar, ‘She said she had an AXE and two 38’s!’
 
Upvote 0

-57

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2015
8,699
1,957
✟70,048.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Where does He say this?

I see no explanation here except to fulfill a prophecy about being seen as a transgressor:

...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. 37"For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, 'AND HE WAS NUMBERED WITH TRANSGRESSORS'

I should ask you...where does the bible say what your saying?
I was simply connecting the two verses.
 
Upvote 0

expos4ever

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2008
10,592
5,732
Montreal, Quebec
✟248,004.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
You are saying the acquiring of swords only plays a role in fulfilling proficiency and has no other significance? Much like he rode to Jerusalem on a donkey when he could have walked?
I am only repeating Jesus' own words. He, not me, gives us the "why" for acquiring the swords - that Jesus would be numbered among transgressors. I see no reason to assume there was any other motive for the instruction to get the sword.
 
Upvote 0

expos4ever

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2008
10,592
5,732
Montreal, Quebec
✟248,004.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I should ask you...where does the bible say what your saying?
What?! The very words of Jesus say it!!

...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. 37"For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, 'AND HE WAS NUMBERED WITH TRANSGRESSORS'
 
Upvote 0

-57

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2015
8,699
1,957
✟70,048.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
What?! The very words of Jesus say it!!

...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. 37"For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, 'AND HE WAS NUMBERED WITH TRANSGRESSORS'

Yes, don't pull your swords on my behalf.
 
Upvote 0

expos4ever

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2008
10,592
5,732
Montreal, Quebec
✟248,004.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Indeed you are.
But, you then assign YOUR meaning to Jesus' words....Just saying.
What are you talking about? You know full well that the words of Jesus clearly explain the instruction to get the sword in terms of fulfilling the prophecy about being seen as a transgressor. A child could see this.

Please stop with the double-talk about me "assigning my own meaning" Jesus says what He says:

...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. 37"For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, 'AND HE WAS NUMBERED WITH TRANSGRESSORS'
 
Upvote 0

-57

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2015
8,699
1,957
✟70,048.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
What are you talking about? You know full well that the words of Jesus clearly explain the instruction to get the sword in terms of fulfilling the prophecy about being seen as a transgressor. A child could see this.

Please stop with the double-talk about me "assigning my own meaning" Jesus says what He says:

...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. 37"For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, 'AND HE WAS NUMBERED WITH TRANSGRESSORS'

Question...why would Jesus say get a sword because I'm numbered with the transgressors?
 
Upvote 0

expos4ever

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2008
10,592
5,732
Montreal, Quebec
✟248,004.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Yes, don't pull your swords on my behalf.
You are making things up. Jesus never says this.

He says what He says! Let me spell it out for you word by word:

For....I....tell.....you.....that....this......which.....is....written.....must.....be......fulfilled......in....Me,....'AND.....HE .....WAS....NUMBERED....WITH....TRANSGRESSORS'
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

expos4ever

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2008
10,592
5,732
Montreal, Quebec
✟248,004.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Question...why would Jesus say get a sword because I'm numbered with the transgressors?
I already explained this. Jesus is orchestrating events to get Himself arrested - being a member of an armed band is precisely the thing that will get you arrested.

Let me spell it out more clearly:

1. Armed groups are seen as troublemakers - transgressors of peace and good order;

2. The leader of such a group is liable to be arrested.

3. Jesus is precisely that leader.

There are other issues at play here, but the key point is that Jesus tells us why the swords are to be acquired - so that a prophecy about Jesus being seen as a transgressor will be fulfilled.

No mention of self-defence.
 
Upvote 0

-57

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2015
8,699
1,957
✟70,048.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I already explained this. Jesus is orchestrating events to get Himself arrested - being a member of an armed band is precisely the thing that will get you arrested.

Let me spell it out more clearly:

1. Armed groups are seen as troublemakers - transgressors of peace and good order;

2. The leader of such a group is liable to be arrested.

3. Jesus is precisely that leader.

There are other issues at play here, but the key point is that Jesus tells us why the swords are to be acquired - so that a prophecy about Jesus being seen as a transgressor will be fulfilled.

No mention of self-defence.

Once again it is YOU who seem to be writing between the lines. Where does the bible say Jesus roll played to get arrested?
 
Upvote 0

expos4ever

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2008
10,592
5,732
Montreal, Quebec
✟248,004.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Where? You seem to be inserting text into the bible.
You are flirting with bearing false witness. And I am being generous.

You know (but will not admit):

1. The text clearly has Jesus connecting the instruction to acquire a sword to the fulfillment of a prophecy that Jesus be seen as a transgressor.

2. There is no statement at all about an another motive for the instruction - notably self-defence.

3. Given that an armed band would be seen as threatening peace and good order, it is eminently plausible to infer that Jesus is ordering the swords so that He will be seen as leader of a band of, yes, transgressors, and get arrested.

You seem unwilling to accept a clear and inconvenient truth: If you walk around as leader of a group of people armed with swords, guess what?

You will be seen as a transgressor.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

-57

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2015
8,699
1,957
✟70,048.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Denial is fascinating. We see it here. The text tells us why Jesus ordered the swords. So that a prophecy about Jesus being seen as a transgressor will be fulfilled.

This is a fact.

It is not open to debate.

Here's 11 commentaries...which one agree's with your commentary?
 
Upvote 0