Can a christian be inhabited by a demon?

[JimBeta]

John 10
7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
19There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
20And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
21Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?
22And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
23And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
24Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.

 

[Francis Drake]

Well actually I disagree. If the Holy Spirit indwells us permenantly, then a demon cannot be there.

I think there are false spirits that people can mistakenly take on thinking it is God.

Prove it from scripture.
This is one of the most successful doctrines of demons ever invented. It completely disarms Christians and leaves them completely vulnerable to Satan and his demons.

 

[Emli]

Demons can definitely be inside a born-again Christian, if they aren't yet completely surrendered to God in every area of their life. By being surrendered I don't mean completely free of sin yet, but that they have invited the Holy Spirit to help them overcome the sin.

We are renewed in the spirit, not in the flesh, the moment we are baptized. The flesh is still sinful, and we are never told that the flesh is renewed by the Spirit. The Holy Spirit lives in our innermost beings, not in our flesh. The flesh is in war against the Spirit. In that sense darkness and light cannot coexist. Evil cannot dwell in our spirits where God dwells. But evil can still dwell in our flesh if we allow it.

When we give our lives to Jesus, we accept that we are now His as is our lives, but we haven't surrendered everything to Him yet. Then after this God continually cleanses us from sin, as we keep confessing. 1 John 1:9. And as we keep repenting and surrendering, we become transformed in our minds. Romans 12:2 God then overcomes sin for us in our lives. So we are sanctified in spirit, soul and mind by the Word of truth and the Holy Spirit, and we crucify the flesh by the Spirit, and we live according to God's will and ways and His Word instead of our own ways and the ways of the world.

We are not sealed when we are born-again in the way that nothing can come in again. The Bible never says so, and that is a false doctrine that is based on the misuse of a few verses. The word seal as used in Scripture simply means a pledge, that we are His possessions, and that He will stay faithful to us in Him. Ephesians 1:13-14. That means that the devil no longer own us, and he cannot touch us unless God allows it. It does not mean that we are protected if we continue to live in sin. We are translated from the kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of God, but only as long as we stay in Christ. In Him there is no sin, and those who sin are not in Him. But that is ONLY if we abide in Him, obedient to Him.

Sin has consequences. The wages of sin is death, Romans 6:23, and if we sow to the flesh, by the flesh we reap destruction. Galatians 6:8 If we then live according to the flesh, not submitting to God, letting sin rule over our bodies instead of crucifying the flesh by the Spirit, then that part of us is also not in-dwelt by the Spirit. Because our sins separate us from God.

Because we can quench the Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 5:19. This happens if we sin or by unbelief. That means that parts of us are not obedient to Christ. Our sins gives room/opens doors to the enemy. Ephesians 4:27. We give place to the devil when we have unrepented sin in our lives. If that continues, a demon can dwell in our "houses". Matthew 12:43-45. If a room is empty, not filled with the Spirit, because we haven't surrendered ourselves to God's will, then when the spirits come, they can move in. Even if we have confessed our sins and have been cleansed, if we haven't had our minds renewed and if we are still living according to our own will, we haven't surrendered yet to the Holy Spirit. So when the devil tempts us, we sin instead of resisting, not relying on the Holy Spirit, and instead quenching the Spirit. That doesn't mean that we never received Him or the new nature, it just means that parts of us are still holding on to sin and self. To have the house filled, we have to surrender to God and live by His will as it is written. If we do, we are submitting to God, and the devil will flee from us. James 4:7 There will be no room in us or our lives for him.

Repentance is not a one time event. Not even salvation is a one time event. The Word says in many places that we are being saved and that we have to persevere until the end. It's a continuous act of God. But we can choose to sin, we can fall short at any moment. This can give place to evil spirits to live in our bodies. Whoever sins is of the devil. 1 John 3:8 So if you give in to darkness, that part of you belongs to the devil. Until you repent, and repent means to change, agree to let go of the sin and not just confess it. A lot of Christians, even born-again Christians get much of this wrong, because they have believed in false doctrines that say that a Christian can keep sinning and still be saved.

No one who is born of God can live in sin without feeling convicted for it, but someone who is born of God can still struggle with a sin or an addiction, which could lead to oppression or demonization. This is one of the ways that God chastises us. 1 Corinthians 5:5 also see the Old Testament, how God chastised the unfaithful Jews by letting their enemies oppress them.

Good news is Luke 10:19-20. We can just cast them out once we have repented and surrendered. 1 John 4:4. Then once the sin is out of our lives, our houses will be empty, cleansed and filled with the Holy Spirit. The devil cannot win completely, and we overcome him in Christ, by His Blood and the authority of His name. I'll stop myself here, so I won't break the rules, but hopefully this all makes sense.

Demonization is not something that we should take lightly or ignore, like some do. The fact that there are so many oppressed Christians today is not because they haven't been born-again, but because they aren't taking their salvation seriously, still being double-minded, still trying to serve two masters. If we talk to those who are oppressed or demonized, it is important that we don't condemn them, because if they show signs of repentance and fruit of the Spirit, THEY HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT. They will have an intense battle inside, they won't be living in wilful sin but are in bondage, slavery to sin. They need Jesus to set them free. So we have to get them delivered, and that doesn't mean simply casting out the spirits, it means that they have to start building their house on the Rock and not on sand, start living according to God's will, by reading Scripture and filling their hearts and minds with truth, and surrendering their entire lives to Jesus. A lot of people have made Jesus their Savior, but not their Lord, because the false church isn't teaching sound doctrine.

Then there are those who have surrendered to the Lord, but have demons from the past. Those demons doesn't always leave at baptism, because they were deeply rooted in their personalities, and God needs to change the person first.

Or if a Christian goes to a church that has false spiritual (demonic) practices, or does yoga or any other new age or occult practices, a demon can enter that needs to be cast out.

There are a lot of other reasons to why and other situations where a demon can enter into a born-again Christian. If we were all living according to the Bible, that wouldn't happen. God would keep us, and we would keep ourselves from sinning. But the church today is not the true Church, but a church that is mixed with the world, and even true born-again Christians are misled from time to time.

What the modern church is doing instead of doing what God has taught us in Scripture is recommending secular psychology and/or drugs to help battle the symptoms. That is only making it worse. Not everything is a demon, but some of it is, and someone who is truly gifted and trained by God and who knows Scripture will be able to tell the difference. All churches should have a deliverance ministry, but unfortunately, most churches are rejecting sound doctrine instead of rejecting the devil.

 

[FireDragon76]

There are definitely Christians that are outwardly so but involved in very evil things. The story of Denis Raider comes to mind. He was obsessed with sadistic sexual practices and became a notorious serial killer, all the while he was president of a Lutheran congregation in Wichita, Kansas. When his pastor found out he was in fact the notorious serial killer BTK, he was baffled by Raider's behavior because it seemed so different from his public persona, and he began to speculate perhaps it was something demonic. A consideration he generally was not given to accept in general, previously.

In M. Scott Peck's People of the Lie, the author details one couple that was very involved in the Episcopal Church for no other reason than to gain social respectability and business contacts so they could defraud them and enrich themselves. Peck was convinced the wife was demonically possessed.

 

[JimBeta]

There are definitely Christians that are outwardly so but involved in very evil things. The story of Denis Raider comes to mind. He was obsessed with sadistic sexual practices and became a notorious serial killer, all the while he was president of a Lutheran congregation in Wichita, Kansas. When his pastor found out he was in fact the notorious serial killer BTK, he was baffled by Raider's behavior because it seemed so different from his public persona, and he began to speculate perhaps it was something demonic. A consideration he generally was not given to accept in general, previously.

In M. Scott Peck's People of the Lie, the author details one couple that was very involved in the Episcopal Church for no other reason than to gain social respectability and business contacts so they could defraud them. Peck was convinced the wife was demonically possessed.

I understand but do you believe that these "christians" had the Holy Spirit then? I do not believe that. It was all make believe, a cover up. I do not believe they had the Holy Spirit.

 

[FireDragon76]

I understand but do you believe that these "christians" had the Holy Spirit then? I do not believe that. It was all make believe, a cover up. I do not believe they had the Holy Spirit.

One thing M. Scott Peck talks about in his book is his close contacts with Catholic exorcists that emphasized that someone who is completely possessed doesn't show any obvious abhorence of holy objects or sacraments. They are the types of people living with deception on an unconscious level, having typically made friendship with evil early in their life to meet some kind of psychological need for power.

I believe the idea of "wolves in sheeps clothing" is apt. A good reason not to judge people by superficial standards, such as conformity to outward religion.

 

[JimBeta]

Ok

 

[Emli]

Why do some people equate having a demon with being completely possessed? They are not the same thing, and there is nothing in Scripture to support that. In fact, the only one who was completely possessed in Scripture was the man with Legion, who had at least 2000 demons. Mary Magdalene had 7. Most of those who Jesus delivered had one, and outwardly that looked like a sickness. That is reality, that is what we are dealing with. Demonization isn't as dramatic as most believe it is, though it is much more serious than most believe it is. Media has given us a false view of what demonization and possession is, and what Christians need to do is to let go of that, and read the Bible as it is written. Stop being afraid of demons and start watching Jesus set captives free.

 

[Dave-W]

Why do some people equate having a demon with being completely possessed?

That is how the KJV words it.

 

[FireDragon76]

Why do some people equate having a demon with being completely possessed? They are not the same thing, and there is nothing in Scripture to support that. In fact, the only one who was completely possessed in Scripture was the man with Legion, who had at least 2000 demons. Mary Magdalene had 7. Most of those who Jesus delivered had one, and outwardly that looked like a sickness. That is reality, that is what we are dealing with. Demonization isn't as dramatic as most believe it is, though it is much more serious than most believe it is. Media has given us a false view of what demonization and possession is, and what Christians need to do is to let go of that, and read the Bible as it is written. Stop being afraid of demons and start watching Jesus set captives free.

I think my point is that we cannot assume those who are Christians are immune from the influence of evil. We don't need to be paranoid or suspicious, just realistic and not superficial.

 

[JimBeta]

We are certainly not immune, we have our flesh. But that is it in my opinion

 

[Emli]

That is how the KJV words it.

Yeah, that's true. And complete possession does happen. I've seen it and I have been there myself even, it's terrible and very real. But that's not what demonization looks like in most cases, or what it usually looks like in the Bible either.

 

[Dave-W]

Yeah, that's true. And complete possession does happen. I've seen it and I have been there myself even, it's terrible and very real. But that's not what demonization looks like in most cases, or what it usually looks like in the Bible either.

I don't know that much Greek, but I have been told by those more versed than I that there is actually only 1 place in the NT where the Greek text supports the idea of true "possession." Acts 16:16

 

[Emli]

One thing M. Scott Peck talks about in his book is his close contacts with Catholic exorcists that emphasized that someone who is completely possessed doesn't show any obvious abhorence of holy objects or sacraments. They are the types of people living with deception on an unconscious level, having typically made friendship with evil early in their life to meet some kind of psychological need for power.

This is an interesting point, because most spirits, and this is from my own experience, are actually drawn towards "holy objects" such as those in Catholic churches. Because those objects are often idolatrous and takes focus away from Christ (and towards "another Jesus" and to Mary). Those demons make you want to flee from submission to Christ, from truth, from prayer, from true worship. Deceitful spirits have in the past led me into beautiful churches, mostly catholic ones, and blinded me by all the external beauty, then given me false comfort. They also gave me a false humility. The Holy Spirit led me out of that trap and I rebuked the spirits. But my point is: evil spirits are very, very deceptive, and they don't usually look evil.

 

[FireDragon76]

The more obvious explanation is that the person who is totally possessed simply is not effected by holy objects because they do not really identify with what they represent, the evil inside them is shielded from that reality.

 

[Emli]

I don't know that much Greek, but I have been told by those more versed than I that there is actually only 1 place in the NT where the Greek text supports the idea of true "possession." Acts 16:16

I just looked it up, and it translates to "having/possessing a spirit of Python" I don't know that much Greek either, but that's the meaning according to the app I use. Are you sure that was the right verse?

I have had a divination/witchcraft spirit like that, and I have seen others who have been deceived by them, Christians and non-Christians. I won't go into details of how it works in this thread, though I could, but they certainly do control people, and not just by lies, they control the face and tongue. But being controlled is not necessarily the same as being possessed (owned).

 

[Dave-W]

Are you sure that was the right verse?

Yep. That was the one they said. "They" being a couple of Presbyterian scholars.

Dr Derek Prince said NO place in the Greek NT supported the idea of total possession (ownership).

 

[Emli]

The more obvious explanation is that the person who is totally possessed simply is not effected by holy objects because they do not really identify with what they represent, the evil inside them is shielded from that reality.

That isn't Biblical.
When someone is possessed, and it's actual possession, the demons are in full control and not the person, and the demons know who God is and who Jesus is. They would keep a person from Him at any cost, so they cannot be saved, which is the devil's main mission.

 

[Emli]

Yep. That was the one they said. "They" being a couple of Presbyterian scholars.

Dr Derek Prince said NO place in the Greek NT supported the idea of total possession (ownership).

I trust Derek Prince more than any other minister when it comes to deliverance. I don't agree with some things that he said on other subjects, but his teachings on deliverance saved my life. And I agree with him that no place in the Bible really supports the term possession (except that unsaved people are the devil's goods, but that's different). But if we look at it from the way the term possession is usually used, the man with Legion was definitely completely controlled by demons, which I would call being possessed in lack of a better word.

 

[Dave-W]

I trust Derek Prince more than any other minister when it comes to deliverance.

I understand. I met and spoke with Dr Prince on several occasions during the1970s. His teachings on this and other topics were groundbreaking.

But I have found PRMI teaching to be equally good and to a degree a few decades more mature than Prince's.