Can a christian be a magician entertainer?

[serephiale]

The Bible, as I have always understood it, refers to magic that has to do with "curious arts" like when they burned such books in Acts 19:19. Magicians like at parties and things today use mirrors and tricks of perception and misdirecting your attention so far as I've ever seen, not "curious arts". For my own opinion, I doubt God has a problem with it.

 

[A. believer]

Good Lord, not ouiji boards again. Please, find something else to occupy yourself with...such as pointing out how Harry Potter and Pokemon are tools of the devil.

Do you also mock your Pope for opposing Harry Potter?

 

[dunkel]

Do you also mock your Pope for opposing Harry Potter?

I hadn't heard that the Pope came out against Harry Potter. Yes, if it has become necessary for the Church to make an official policy statement over a fictional character, I think that's a bit silly.

 

[Jipsah]

bwt, how did he make all those things disappear????? How can you make a 747 disappear?????

That's why they call it magic! And trust me, you don't want to know how he did it. It's always a letdown.

 

[Dmckay]

One of my professors in Bible College was a much sought after public speaker. Granted he did have remarkable skill at communicating the Word of G-d. But one of the reasons that he was really popular was because he was also a very good illusionist, and he would us his tricks of illusion as object lessons to put across his messages to the younger members of his audiences. They not only understood the doctrines that he was teaching better, but he really held their attention.

That professor's name is Mark Bailey, and the last I heard he is the President of Dallas Theological Seminary. I imagine that he is still using those skills to lure in donations to the school.

 

[Dmckay]

As an aside, which still pertains to your question in a way. I once saw a picture that a friend who is an avid race car fan took of a tricked-out race car at one of the events that he went to. The driver of the car had painted in very large letters, "My relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is worth more to me than the weight of this car in gold and jewels." Everyone at the race was reading that message with every lap.

 

[A. believer]

I hadn't heard that the Pope came out against Harry Potter. Yes, if it has become necessary for the Church to make an official policy statement over a fictional character, I think that's a bit silly.

I don't believe the RCC has an official position, but apparently Cardinal Ratzinger revealed his position on Harry Potter prior to his appointment as pope. Perhaps you might humbly consider the possibility that you might be missing something and all this Christian opposition ought not be so casually dismissed.

Although I see nothing wrong with illusionists (as long as they aren't invoking the occult), I think it's far better to be too cautious than not cautious enough. Better to ask questions and seriously consider the responses than to presumptuously dismiss such questions as some kind of silly paranoia.

 

[higgs2]

yes

 

[dunkel]

I don't believe the RCC has an official position, but apparently Cardinal Ratzinger revealed his position on Harry Potter prior to his appointment as pope. Perhaps you might humbly consider the possibility that you might be missing something and all this Christian opposition ought not be so casually dismissed.

Although I see nothing wrong with illusionists (as long as they aren't invoking the occult), I think it's far better to be too cautious than not cautious enough. Better to ask questions and seriously consider the responses than to presumptuously dismiss such questions as some kind of silly paranoia.

Interesting read. Sorry, I just can't get excited about a fictional character. I also didn't get bent out of shape over the DaVinci Code and I watched the Smurfs growing up. Perhaps it's a bit of Papa Smurf influencing me when I hit the snooze button one too many times on Sunday and don't make it to Mass, but I doubt it.

Ah well, I guess that's why he's the Pope and I'm not.

With all seriousness, though, I think there are more important things to worry about other than Harry Potter. Millions of children have been murdered in their mothers' wombs over the last couple of decades, we are still not fully recovered from the pedophile priest situation (overblown, yes, but bad enough even if it was a single case), Christians are being systematically slaughtered in various hotspots throughout the world, our most sacred symbols are being dunked in urine in the name of "art", people are fornicating in churches to win radio show contests...but I'm supposed to be worried about the impact a fictional children's book character is having on Christianity? I'm sorry, but perhaps you should re-think your priorities.

 

[SallyNow]

The silly card tricks and slight-of-hand stuff is no big deal. Also, even the illusion stuff (such as the "sawing a person in half" thing) is not satanic. I've seen the Masked Magician on tv (the magician who revealed all the tricks used in the illusions) and all this stuff has to do with optical illusions, hidden compartments, and other technical stuff. It doesn't involve spirits of any kind.

Exactly. I don't see anything wrong with illusionists. The only "magic" involved there is the "magic" of a solid, professional, hard-working, fast-thinking cast and crew-in other words, the chemistry of any good team to do a good job, which is no magic at all, just hard work and creativity.

 

[A. believer]

but I'm supposed to be worried about the impact a fictional children's book character is having on Christianity? I'm sorry, but perhaps you should re-think your priorities.

I'm not suggesting that you need worry about it. And it's not the effect the character (or the story, overall) is having on Christianity, but rather the effect such things have on culture, as opposed to the effect Christianity should have on culture. If we Christians aren't learning to think Christianly, then we won't affect the culture for Christ. And I believe you way underestimate the effect stories have on culture.

 

[Akathist]

MOD HAT ON

This thread is starting to go off topic. The topic is being a magician in an entertainment venue and if this is problematic for a Christian to do from a Theological perspective.

It is nothing to do with any books.

If you are not interested in the topic, please do not post in the thread.​

 

[Sabertooth]

I'm not suggesting that you need worry about it. And it's not the effect the character (or the story, overall) is having on Christianity, but rather the effect such things have on culture, as opposed to the effect Christianity should have on culture. If we Christians aren't learning to think Christianly, then we won't affect the culture for Christ. And I believe you way underestimate the effect stories have on culture.

While interesting points, this "sub-topic" should probably be moved to its own thread, though I don't know if anyone else would want to discuss HP...

 

[dunkel]

I'm not suggesting that you need worry about it. And it's not the effect the character (or the story, overall) is having on Christianity, but rather the effect such things have on culture, as opposed to the effect Christianity should have on culture. If we Christians aren't learning to think Christianly, then we won't affect the culture for Christ. And I believe you way underestimate the effect stories have on culture.

As I said, there are other issues that are having real impacts on culture that we can see every day. When thousands of real babies are murdered every year, I just can't see spending any time and energy on something so petty as a fictional character. If you don't like Harry Potter, or whatever else, for any reason, fine, don't read it and don't let your kids read it. But when it comes time for actually taking action, let's keep things in perspective.

I apologize if this sounds like I'm over-generalizing you, personally. Obviously, I don't know what actions, if any, you've taken against Harry Potter. But you must admit that there are Christians out there that choose to squander their outrage on frivalous issues when real harm is being done in other areas.

As an aside, have you seen the movie Usual Suspects? Kevin Spacey's character says something to the effect of "the greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist." A nice quote, but I disagree. I believe the greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing people that he exists in areas where he really doesn't. I wonder how much Satan loves to watch Christians expend energy on Harry Potter when the abortion doctor down the street is slaughtering innocents. Yes, yes, Harry Potter is evil and is damaging your society, he says, as he laughs his horned head off and welcomes a few more souls into Hell.

In other words, if you ask me, misdirected concern is much more dangerous to Christianity and our culture in general than the fictional adventures of a gradeschool wizard.

Sorry for being off topic. When I say "Harry Potter", it is just a placeholder for whatever issue you want to insert in there. If you're upset about David Copperfield, I would say the exact same things, only I would insert David Copperfield in where I have Harry Potter in there now. It looks like the general consensus is that slight of hand "magic" is no big deal, so that's good to hear, but if there happened to anyone that saw it as a dangerous activity, I would question their own priorities, as well.

 

[A. believer]

While interesting points, this "sub-topic" should probably be moved to its own thread, though I don't know if anyone else would want to discuss HP...

Even I don't want to discuss Harry Potter. Harry Potter was just brought up as representative of a particular category into which one might consider whether or not the OP fits and whether or not this category of things is of any negative value. How we categorize things is essential to how we think, and how we think is essential to how we act, and how we act is essential to the impact we have on the world. But if people object, far be it from me to carry on. I'm done.

 

[Akathist]

MOD HAT ON

This thread is starting to go off topic. The topic is being a magician in an entertainment venue and if this is problematic for a Christian to do from a Theological perspective.

It is nothing to do with any books.

If you are not interested in the topic, please do not post in the thread.
​

This mod hat needs to be followed. Members who post off topic after being reminded could receive an official warning for every post.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Sure a Christian can.

They can be like me too; I have the mutant power to control traffic lights.

Like the English King Canute who thought he had the mutant power to control the tide?

Oh, I didn't see the Mod warning. I'll need to say something on topic!

I think that modern conjurers use techniques to make their tricks appear magical. Everyone who watches, and who are entertained by them know that. Only the most naive person would believe that it was true magic. The fun is trying to work out how it was done. It is entertainment, and not intended to influence a person's belief in the supernatural.

 

[Darrell2006]

I like illusionists like David Copperfield!

bwt, how did he make all those things disappear?????

How can you make a 747 disappear?????

I had studied illusion engineering, and most illusions if you see them a couple time can be easily figured out, the 747 vanish was done at night, same with the other large vanishes. I don't want to ruin the trick by telling you the secret, but I can say it's technology,enginering, misdirection and or optical illusion, not any type of supernatural.

 

[Darrell2006]

I agree that the typical sleight-of-hand entertainment is generally not a problem. The only limit there is that the person not be trying to give the impression he has some great powers or is relying upon occultic or spiritual forces to enable him to do the miraculous. Appealing to the spirit word - even in jest - is a dangerous practice.

what does it mean to appeal to the spirit word?

 

[dunkel]

what does it mean to appeal to the spirit word?

Basically asking the spirits/demons/the dead/whatever to give you the power to read minds/tell the future/make the rabbit appear in your hat/whatever.