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It amazes me how easily you lose grasp of context & become confused about whom is being spoken.
Observe;
9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11: Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12: But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13: And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14: Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16: But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
17: These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18: For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19: While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20: For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21: For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22: But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Dogs & sows, not sheep.
I never said it was.quote=chestertonrules;
Either we made the choice or he did. It can't be both.
We make the choice. We are created beings. He predestined His creation.If he made the choice, then we are robots.
Well, James certainly can't be asserting we are capable of what only Jesus Christ is, can he?James 5:19-20 "Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his ways, will have saved a soul from death".
I never said it was.
We make the choice. We are created beings. He predestined His creation.
Get over yourself.
Well, James certainly can't be asserting we are capable of what only Jesus Christ is, can he?
Except for you.Are Dogs and Sows made free from the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ?
Yes or No?
It's not complicated.
9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:.
Except for you.
Yes. You can detox them & fill them full of Kosher health food.
You can bathe & wash them clean & put lipstick on them. You can even teach them to parrot every item in the catechism.
They can be free from the pollutions of the world thru KNOWING about Christ, but they can only be made free from damnation by Christ "knowing" them.
Yes,... the qulity of it via the rewards we earn &/or lose.quote=chestertonrules; Not exactly.
He is making it clear that our choices and actions impact our salvation.
I understand your frustration & retreat.I'll stick to the bible as written, not Calvinist twisting.
I understand your frustration & retreat.
I'm sorry you're unable to understand it enough to refute it.
2 Peter 2:20-21 "They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them."
Therefore just as one mans trespass led to condemnation for all, so one mans act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all. Rom. 5:18
Do you not see the word "knowing" in that verse?One has to know Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior before they are made free from the evil of the world. And that is what justification is. Salvation from the penalty of sin.
I agree that they were saved. Then what? Salvation can be lost.
But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them."
I believe you believe you do.quote=chestertonrules;I believe the words as written.
You are a liar & a bad judge of whiskey. Next round is on me.You rewrite them to fit your dogma.
That is a total rewrite if I ever saw one. They were only made free of the pollution of the world, not original sin, and they achieved that by knowing about him, not by knowing Him. That much is obvious in verse 20 alone.THEY were made free by KNOWING JESUS.
You accuse the bretheren to your own destruction. Worse yet, it makes you look fat.You reject these words and insert your dogma.
You wouldn't know the difference because you haven't learn to identify what scripture is, much less how to read it. I gotta almost admire your efforts, tho.I understand. Your dogma is more important to you than the words of scripture.
I believe the words as written.
You rewrite them to fit your dogma.
THEY were made free by KNOWING JESUS.
You reject these words and insert your dogma.
I understand. Your dogma is more important to you than the words of scripture.
I agree that they were saved. Then what? Salvation can be lost.
But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them."
What is it that you do any differently than the Calvinist?
So now, since you were found out to be wrong, you are changing the subject?
I believe you believe you do.
You are a liar & a bad judge of whiskey. Next round is on me.
That is a total rewrite if I ever saw one. They were only made free of the pollution of the world, not original sin, and they achieved that by knowing about him, not by knowing Him. That much is obvious in verse 20 alone.
You accuse the bretheren to your own destruction. Worse yet, it makes you look fat.
You wouldn't know the difference because you haven't learn to identify what scripture is, much less how to read it. I gotta almost admire your efforts, tho.
That was my whole point!
What do you think I was wrong about?
Foreknown, not pre-planned.
God wants all of us to choose him.
Our will dictates which of us will go to heaven.
We can choose to accept or reject God's grace.
Calvinists believe that God pre-ordained some men to eternal torture with no regard for their actions, words, or thoughts
while he rescued some equally corrupt men for eternal bliss.
I find this silly and unbiblical.
The bible makes it clear that we will be judged for our actions, and that only those that strive for holiness will see the Lord.
Chez, you consistantly fall back on this accusation when you are cornered with your self-contradictions.quote=chestertonrules; Rick, you twist all scripture to fit your dogma.
You're projecting your fear of loss - the seperation anxiety of your ego from self control onto me. It's a natural reflex.You are incapable of accepting crystal clear words that expose the flaws in Calvinism because your dogma is more important to you than the words of scripture.
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