Calvinist Robots

[Thekla]

That doesn't necessarily follow.
The way Adam was composed as a creature is not the same topic as his destiny as that creature; intimately related, but different.

Please explain.
Or do you mean that God gave Adam the image and destined him to lose the image. That still means Adam was acting from his "content" which included the image. He sinned before he lost the image, which still leaves sin as content of image.

 

[Rick Otto]

If God is responsible for sin, how is sin not an attribute of God ?

Responsibility is His attribute, not sinfulness.
Man wasn't created sinful, he became sinful.
The image wasn't lost(Rom1;20), it was defaced.

 

[Thekla]

Responsibility is His attribute, not sinfulness.
Man wasn't created sinful, he became sinful.
The image wasn't lost(Rom1;20), it was defaced.

He became sinful while he had the image.
If man has no true choice, then how is sinning not part of the image ?

 

[Rick Otto]

What man did with the image is not what the image is.
Who told you man has no true choice?
You're using the relative, subjective word "true" like you think a predestined choice isn't a choice (truly). What in the definition of choice precludes that act of decision from having been determined by the omniscient creator of the creature who makes that decision? I assert it is still a choice, just one that you personaly value less for some reason (as if you don't own it), because God destined it.

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

unfortunately that is one choice god has not given you

Give to every man that asketh of thee; (Luke 6:30 KJV)

I am asking you not to post to me or respond to my posts anymore.

I will do the same for you.

Thank you.

 

[Thekla]

What man did with the image is not what the image is.
Who told you man has no true choice?
You're using the relative, subjective word "true" like you think a predestined choice isn't a choice (truly). What in the definition of choice precludes that act of decision from having been determined by the omniscient creator of the creature who makes that decision? I assert it is still a choice, just one that you personaly value less for some reason (as if you don't own it), because God destined it.

Could you explain what these are, to make sure we understand the terms alike ?

choice
predestine

 

[Rick Otto]

I'm willing for the sake of convenience to at least start with Merriam-Webster. Good Enough?


Main Entry: CHOICE Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English chois, from Anglo-French, from choisir to choose, of Germanic origin; akin to Old High German kiosan to choose &#8212; more at choose Date: 13th century 1: the act of choosing : selection <finding it hard to make a choice>
2: power of choosing : option <you have no choice>
3 a: the best part : cream b: a person or thing chosen <she was their first choice>
4: a number and variety to choose among <a plan with a wide choice of options>
5: care in selecting6: a grade of meat between prime and good
&#8212; of choice : to be preferred

synonyms choice , option , alternative , preference , selection , election mean the act or opportunity of choosing or the thing chosen. choice suggests the opportunity or privilege of choosing freely <freedom of choice>. option implies a power to choose that is specifically granted or guaranteed <the option of paying now or later>. alternative implies a need to choose one and reject another possibility <equally attractive alternatives>. preference suggests a choice guided by one's judgment or predilections <a preference for cool weather>. selection implies a range of choice <a varied selection of furniture>. election implies an end or purpose which requires exercise of judgment <doing a tax return forces certain elections on you>.


Main Entry: pre&#183;des&#183;tine Pronunciation: Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French or Latin; Anglo-French predestiner, from Latin praedestinare, from prae- + destinare to determine &#8212; more at destine Date: 14th century : to destine, decree, determine, appoint, or settle beforehand ; especially : predestinate 1

 

[Thekla]

so how is man's ability to choose 'actual' - if he is predestined ?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I'm willing for the sake of convenience to at least start with Merriam-Webster. Good Enough?


Main Entry: CHOICE Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English chois, from Anglo-French, from choisir to choose, of Germanic origin; akin to Old High German kiosan to choose — more at choose Date: 13th century 1: the act of choosing : selection <finding it hard to make a choice>
2: power of choosing : option <you have no choice>
3 a: the best part : cream b: a person or thing chosen <she was their first choice>
4: a number and variety to choose among <a plan with a wide choice of options>
5: care in selecting6: a grade of meat between prime and good
— of choice : to be preferred

synonyms choice , option , alternative , preference , selection , election mean the act or opportunity of choosing or the thing chosen. choice suggests the opportunity or privilege of choosing freely <freedom of choice>. option implies a power to choose that is specifically granted or guaranteed <the option of paying now or later>. alternative implies a need to choose one and reject another possibility <equally attractive alternatives>. preference suggests a choice guided by one's judgment or predilections <a preference for cool weather>. selection implies a range of choice <a varied selection of furniture>. election implies an end or purpose which requires exercise of judgment <doing a tax return forces certain elections on you>.


Main Entry: pre·des·tine Pronunciation: Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French or Latin; Anglo-French predestiner, from Latin praedestinare, from prae- + destinare to determine — more at destine Date: 14th century : to destine, decree, determine, appoint, or settle beforehand ; especially : predestinate 1

So...

Predestine means everything was settled beofre time ever started and we are following a prerecorded timeline.

Choice means we actually can elect to change things along the way so that we are not part of a recording.

I do not think we are but a DVD show for God. I believe we have free will and so choice and the ability to Love God or reject his embrace.

 

[drstevej]

I believe we have free will and so choice and the ability to Love God or reject his embrace.

Is there free will in Heaven?
Can we chose to leave? Spit in His face?

Freewill In Heaven (apologies to Eric Clapton)

Beyond the door,
There's peace I'm sure,
And I know there's got to be
Free will in heaven.

Would you throw a fit
If He controlled you in heaven?
Would it be the same
If He bound your will in heaven?

You must be strong
And carry on,
'Cause you know there's no free will
Here in heaven.

 

[&Abel]

Is there free will in Heaven?
Can we chose to leave? Spit in His face?

we won't have the urge to rebel against god in heaven

 

[PETE_]

we won't have the urge to rebel against god in heaven

why not?

 

[Rick Otto]

I gotta make my commute now.
Talk to ya pretty soon, I hope.
Looks a few inches of snow has fallen already.

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

why not?

'Cause you know there's no free will
Here in heaven.

apologies to drstevej for stealing his verse

 

[&Abel]

why not?

because god will remove our bodies from this sinful flesh and will give us exactly what he promises we get for believing and following him

 

[&Abel]

we are choosing to follow god even though are bodies want us to do the exact opposite

god will be fulfilling our choice in heaven

 

[christianmomof3]

I gotta make my commute now.
Talk to ya pretty soon, I hope.
Looks a few inches of snow has fallen already.

may the Lord be with you in your traveling and bring you safely home

 

[Rick Otto]

may the Lord be with you in your traveling and bring you safely home

Oh, thank you ever so much,
It was white-knuckle driving all the way. In the top three worst since I started in '95!
Trucks hadn't been out yet which is unusual.
Top speed 35mph.
My tires are thin & I'm in a pick-up truck with no extra weight in the back!LOL... stunt driving. But I learned to drive on solid ice. The first time I ever drove was on solid ice & I think it was a great learning experience.
I eased my brother's '69 Dodge Polaris around the block to the church parking lot behind our house & learned to know what loss of control felt like. That took a lot of the panic out of it when it happened later in traffic.

The worst thing I was worried about was getting up enough momentum to top this one realy big hill about 3/4 the way home. There was a hill I couldn't climb just a few blocks from work, where I had to make a U-turn in the middle of the street & go another route.

Sure felt good to get home,... & be here this mornin'.
got Coffee!

 

[Rick Otto]

Calvinist Robot with programming error;

 

[squint]

he turned from god

he worshipped other gods

he was not saved

he was warned TWICE of what would happen if he did it

and he still did it

there is NOTHING included in the end of the verse about him repenting(and there would have been had it been the case)

given that he was a chosen vessel of god and turned...it would have been vital information had he turned back

the lesson here is that anyone can fall if they turn from god

Now THAT is what's called a predictable robotic discourse.

There is not one single statement in the entire Bible that would even remotely indicate that Solomon is lost and going to burn alive forever. Not a ONE.

One never knows what kind of can O' worms one finds when scriptures are applied. Whew...those brain lobes are all twisted up for a reason. And divided in HALF no less. Go figure.