Calvinist Robots

Satan is a believer in what? That Jesus is the son of God and that He alone will reign? Many people believe Jesus came and died on the cross for their sins. They believe He will come again. But they do not believe Into Him.. There is a difference. This is why Jesus says I never knew you.. Did Jesus never know about those who are lost or goats? Or Did He never know them personally?

MamaZ said:

Satan is a believer in what?

That Jesus is the son of God

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Yes.

Satan believes that Jesus is the only Son of God.

chestertonrules said:

Yes.

Satan believes that Jesus is the only Son of God.

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Many believe this but this does not make them knowing Christ.

Rick Otto said:

Read it:
he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins.

So the "some" He atoned for is the believing non-Jews & believing Jews.

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<Staff Edit>

. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of we believing Jews, but also for the sins of all the believing non Jews, including a few cannibals in Borneo.
1 John 2:1-2

Here's how the NIV reads:

But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:1-2

chestertonrules said:

How have I distorted them?

All I did was print scripture.

Feel free to tell me that the words of the bible are wrong. That appears to be your point.

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Oh, pardon me. I thought there was more to reading and understanding the Bible than just reading (translated) words on a page without trying to find a way to make sure that you get the meaning out of what was said, since most words have many meanings. I guess you just attach the meaning you want to get the verse to say what you want, instead of going to see what it meant in the original language. I see your game now.

ok I got something good for this discussion

King Solomon

Promised Son to David, given everything in the world and more...wisdom beyond any other man....he was so in the spirit that he wrote the words of god

and yet he turned away from god in the end even after being warned that if he did so Israel would be cursed

a man who wrote the word of god, turned from him in the end

if thats not evidence of the fact that we must finish the race I don't know what is

Solomon Turns from God

1Now (A)King Solomon loved many foreign women along with the daughter of Pharaoh: Moabite, Ammonite, Edomite, Sidonian, and Hittite women, 2from the nations concerning which the LORD had said to the sons of Israel, "(B)You shall not associate with them, nor shall they associate with you, for they will surely turn your heart away after their gods." Solomon held fast to these in love.
3(C)He had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines, and his wives turned his heart away.
4For when Solomon was old, his wives turned his heart away after other gods; and (D)his heart was not [a]wholly devoted to the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father had been.
5For Solomon went after (E)Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians and after (F)Milcom the detestable idol of the Ammonites.
6Solomon did what was evil in the sight of the LORD, and did not follow the LORD fully, as David his father had done.
7Then Solomon built a high place for (G)Chemosh the detestable idol of Moab, on the mountain which is east of Jerusalem, and for (H)Molech the detestable idol of the sons of Ammon.
8Thus also he did for all his foreign wives, who burned incense and sacrificed to their gods.
9Now (I)the LORD was angry with Solomon (J)because his heart was turned away from the LORD, the God of Israel, (K)who had appeared to him twice,
10and (L)had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods; but he did not observe what the LORD had commanded.
11So the LORD said to Solomon, "Because you have done this, and you have not kept My covenant and My statutes, which I have commanded you, (M)I will surely tear the kingdom from you, and will give it to your servant.
12"Nevertheless I will not do it in your days for the sake of your father David, but I will tear it out of the hand of your son.
13"However, (N)I will not tear away all the kingdom, but (O)I will give one tribe to your son for the sake of My servant David and (P)for the sake of Jerusalem which I have chosen."

its also evidence that being called and blessed by god is not a guarantee of staying that way

that even after being a chosen vessel of god you can CHOOSE to turn away

Rick Otto said:

Led to condemnation or righteousness for all that were IN each "one man". Not all who were in Adam were in Christ as well.


I didn't change the words in the least. I corrected your ignorance & misconstruance of the clear meaning of "all" & "world", and I have not claimed apostolic succession or infallability, so the shrill tone & implicit accusation in calling me pope Rick is not only inappropriate, but revealing of your own insecurities.

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It is clear that you can't conform scripture as written to your belief system.


I'm not sure what that has to do with my insecurities.(fear of the stock market, for example)

&Abel said:

its also evidence that being called and blessed by god is not a guarantee of staying that way

that even after being a chosen vessel of god you can CHOOSE to turn away

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True.

The bible makes it clear that we can turn away even after being sanctified.


Hebrews 10:29 "How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by those who have spurned the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified, and outraged the Spirit?"

Rick Otto said:

That's quite an attitude you're sportin'.
Not big enough to hold up your britches, tho.

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I keep my belt tight.

I'm harder on you given your thick skin.

ok I got something good for this discussion

King Solomon

Promised Son to David, given everything in the world and more...wisdom beyond any other man....he was so in the spirit that he wrote the words of god

and yet he turned away from god in the end even after being warned that if he did so Israel would be cursed

a man who wrote the word of god, turned from him in the end

if thats not evidence of the fact that we must finish the race I don't know what is

Solomon Turns from God

1Now (A)King Solomon loved many foreign women along with the daughter of Pharaoh: Moabite, Ammonite, Edomite, Sidonian, and Hittite women, 2from the nations concerning which the LORD had said to the sons of Israel, "(B)You shall not associate with them, nor shall they associate with you, for they will surely turn your heart away after their gods." Solomon held fast to these in love.
3(C)He had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines, and his wives turned his heart away.
4For when Solomon was old, his wives turned his heart away after other gods; and (D)his heart was not [a]wholly devoted to the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father had been.
5For Solomon went after (E)Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians and after (F)Milcom the detestable idol of the Ammonites.
6Solomon did what was evil in the sight of the LORD, and did not follow the LORD fully, as David his father had done.
7Then Solomon built a high place for (G)Chemosh the detestable idol of Moab, on the mountain which is east of Jerusalem, and for (H)Molech the detestable idol of the sons of Ammon.
8Thus also he did for all his foreign wives, who burned incense and sacrificed to their gods.
9Now (I)the LORD was angry with Solomon (J)because his heart was turned away from the LORD, the God of Israel, (K)who had appeared to him twice,
10and (L)had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods; but he did not observe what the LORD had commanded.
11So the LORD said to Solomon, "Because you have done this, and you have not kept My covenant and My statutes, which I have commanded you, (M)I will surely tear the kingdom from you, and will give it to your servant.
12"Nevertheless I will not do it in your days for the sake of your father David, but I will tear it out of the hand of your son.
13"However, (N)I will not tear away all the kingdom, but (O)I will give one tribe to your son for the sake of My servant David and (P)for the sake of Jerusalem which I have chosen."

I'm gonna repost so this doesn't get missed cause I wanna hear a calvinist explanation

A New Dawn said:

Oh, pardon me. I thought there was more to reading and understanding the Bible than just reading (translated) words on a page without trying to find a way to make sure that you get the meaning out of what was said, since most words have many meanings. I guess you just attach the meaning you want to get the verse to say what you want, instead of going to see what it meant in the original language. I see your game now.

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Feel free to provide a different translation if you think this one is faulty.

chestertonrules said:

I keep my belt tight.

I'm harder on you given your thick skin.

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May I also grow a thick skin as my bro has

Rick Otto said:

So then you have no intelligent refutation.
That's Ok. I didn't expect any.



I'll tell you exactly what it has to do with them.

We tend to fear the unknown.
You cannot know what you cannot understand.
You fear predestination because you don't understand it. You think it defines men into robots.
We also tend to project our fears & insecurities onto people that arouse them.
That is what you've done to me.
Don't worry about it, tho. I get over that easily enough.

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The concept is quite easy to understand.


However, it is not biblical or logical, so I reject it.

In addition, I think it damages the ability of Christians to evangelize.

It turns God into an unmerciful, unloving ego-maniac.

predestination IS Biblical

but predestination is based on foreknowledge not on forced will