• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Calvinist Robots

Status
Not open for further replies.

DD2008

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2008
5,033
574
Texas
✟8,121.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I don't know what a calvanist is...:p

I do know that people who claim to be 'christians' and THEN sentence their unsaved neighbors to burn alive forever in conscious torment for not believing 'like they do' cannot equate that with loving same in any sane sense of the word.

God is the judge. The bible is his inspired word that he gave us so that a man may be complete.

2 Timothy:16-17
[16] All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
[17] that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

We see there is hell in the bible.

Some Biblical passages about hell: Matthew 8:11-12, Mark 9:42-48, Luke 16:19-31, Jude 1:3-13, Revelation 20:11-15.
 
Upvote 0

squint

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2007
16,182
903
Mountain Regions
✟20,405.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
God is the judge. The bible is his inspired word that he gave us so that a man may be complete.

2 Timothy:16-17
[16] All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
[17] that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

We see there is hell in the bible.

Some Biblical passages about hell: Matthew 8:11-12, Mark 9:42-48, Luke 16:19-31, Jude 1:3-13, Revelation 20:11-15.

I have no issues whatsoever with hell/the Lake of Fire, the eternity of same, the perpetual wrath of same, the isolation of same.

But of course that does NOT mean that I have to place my loved ones there in the name of God, OR my unsaved neighbors. And you kinda skirted the question in any case didn't you?
 
Upvote 0

squint

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2007
16,182
903
Mountain Regions
✟20,405.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I did not say that I do not believe it, but you said that WE sentenced them to it. It is God doing that not ANY man, including us calvinist

Your reply says, in essence, "NOT ME, but God" when in fact it is YOU thinking you see that FOR GOD or AS GOD says. I can say it's not that easy. IF your God were just, then you should take the brush you apply to others.


There are other views on these matters that are just as legitimate that have far better conclusions.

I started my engagements in this thread by observing the [robotically inclined] conference of TOTAL DEPRAVITY upon those we are to LOVE. Perhaps a different view of robotic than what others may see, but robotic imho nevertheless. I can't seem to equate loving my (unsaved) neighbors with deeming them totally depraved for some strange reason.

Perhaps you can clear that up for me?
 
Upvote 0

DD2008

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2008
5,033
574
Texas
✟8,121.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I have no issues whatsoever with hell/the Lake of Fire, the eternity of same, the perpetual wrath of same, the isolation of same.

But of course that does NOT mean that I have to place my loved ones there in the name of God, OR my unsaved neighbors. And you kinda skirted the question in any case didn't you?

I can promise you that you have no power to place anyone there nor have you the right to judge who goes there. That kind of judgement is only possible with God. We know because of the words of inspired scripture, however, that no one who believes in Him will be put to shame.

Romans 10:1-13
[1] Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved.
[2] I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but it is not enlightened.
[3] For, being ignorant of the righteousness that comes from God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. [4] For Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified.
[5] Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on the law shall live by it.
[6] But the righteousness based on faith says, Do not say in your heart, "Who will ascend into heaven?" (that is, to bring Christ down)
[7] or "Who will descend into the abyss?" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).
[8] But what does it say? The word is near you, on your lips and in your heart (that is, the word of faith which we preach);
[9] because, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
[10] For man believes with his heart and so is justified, and he confesses with his lips and so is saved.
[11] The scripture says, "No one who believes in him will be put to shame."
[12] For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and bestows his riches upon all who call upon him.
[13] For, "every one who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved."
 
Upvote 0

squint

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2007
16,182
903
Mountain Regions
✟20,405.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I can promise you that you have no power to place anyone there

Wrong again. I have every right to deem that the devil and his messengers are going to be in the Lake of Fire beyond any uncertainty whatsoever and can make this statement in the here and now.

My observation to YOU is that YOU DO believe that there are going to be your fellow man IN that Lake of Fire even if you do not attach a name, and IN THAT WAY you have in fact already placed some of your fellow man in the LAKE by your position. Total depravity is part of the measure you use to justify that belief.

nor have you the right to judge who goes there.

See prior statement, and yes, I have no doubt that every last vessel of dishonor and every last worker of iniquity WILL be in the Lake of Fire for permanent disability along with the power of death and hell (the grave.)

That kind of judgement is only possible with God.

And God has provided us with a fairly easy read on some of these matters that we can speak with authority on as prior noted.

We know because of the words of inspired scripture, however, that no one who believes in Him will be put to shame.

Well, it's pretty easy for all of us as believers to let ourselves off the hook for our judgments isn't it? I don't find it quite so easy to put those I am to LOVE into that position even without a name. And this again really didn't address the question did it? Nice try though.
 
Upvote 0

squint

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2007
16,182
903
Mountain Regions
✟20,405.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Do you not believe that we all are sinners?

I believe a lot of things about sin and sinners.

I believe that believers want to excuse and forgive their sins while potentially condemning their unsaved neighbors for sins and sentencing them to burn alive forever for their sins. And I find that somewhat hypocritical for some strange reason when comparing that action to loving them.

Perhaps you can clear up what may appear to me to be a double standard? Oh, and don't forget to equate loving your unsaved neighbors to calling them totally depraved. Still waiting on that one as well.
 
Upvote 0

DD2008

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2008
5,033
574
Texas
✟8,121.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Wrong again. I have every right to deem that the devil and his messengers are going to be in the Lake of Fire beyond any uncertainty whatsoever and can make this statement in the here and now.

My observation to YOU is that YOU DO believe that there are going to be your fellow man IN that Lake of Fire even if you do not attach a name, and IN THAT WAY you have in fact already placed some of your fellow man in the LAKE by your position. Total depravity is part of the measure you use to justify that belief.



See prior statement, and yes, I have no doubt that every last vessel of dishonor and every last worker of iniquity WILL be in the Lake of Fire for permanent disability along with the power of death and hell (the grave.)



And God has provided us with a fairly easy read on some of these matters that we can speak with authority on as prior noted.



Well, it's pretty easy for all of us as believers to let ourselves off the hook for our judgments isn't it? I don't find it quite so easy to put those I am to LOVE into that position even without a name. And this again really didn't address the question did it? Nice try though.


One of the greatest acts of charity a christian can do is to admonish sin.
 
Upvote 0

squint

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2007
16,182
903
Mountain Regions
✟20,405.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
One of the greatest acts of charity a christian can do is to admonish sin.

You think it an act of LOVE then to call yourself and your fellow mankind totally depraved? Is that what LOVE really does?

The last time I checked LOVE KEEPS NO RECORD of wrongs, so I'm not sure on what recorded basis you can claim those you are to LOVE are totally depraved if LOVE does that.
 
Upvote 0

PETE_

Count as lost, every moment not spent loving God
Jun 11, 2006
170,116
7,562
60
✟220,061.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
I think the calvinist position allows one to be less critical of the lost.

We all were born in the same state and only God can change our hearts and bring us out of that state.

I cannot look own on someone for acting according to their nature, for I was once in the same boat and only by the Grace of God am I able to be other than the same. Why fault a tiger for acting like a tiger.

If I thought it was their own choice to remain in such a state then the blame should be on them and it would be their own fault that they do not change from their chosen state.
 
Upvote 0
I don't know what a calvanist is...:p

I do know that people who claim to be 'christians' and THEN sentence their unsaved neighbors to burn alive forever in conscious torment for not believing 'like they do' cannot equate that with loving same in any sane sense of the word.
Uh I don't think any man can sentence any other man to anything Spiritual. :) Only God can choose in whom to save and Have Mercy upon. It is sin that sentences a man to eternal damnation.
 
Upvote 0

PETE_

Count as lost, every moment not spent loving God
Jun 11, 2006
170,116
7,562
60
✟220,061.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
The last time I checked LOVE KEEPS NO RECORD of wrongs, so I'm not sure on what recorded basis you can claim those you are to LOVE are totally depraved if LOVE does that.

It has nothing to do with the wrongs they have done but the condition of their heart. Only God can change it. If you treated them poorly becuse of that, it would be wrong, but stating reality is not
 
Upvote 0

squint

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2007
16,182
903
Mountain Regions
✟20,405.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It has nothing to do with the wrongs they have done but the condition of their heart.

You mean that their heart is wrong? lol

Only God can change it.

Change it to what might appear to be a valid question?

If you treated them poorly becuse of that, it would be wrong, but stating reality is not

Are you saying calling those we are to love totally depraved IS LOVE? Is this really what love IS and DOES?
 
Upvote 0

squint

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2007
16,182
903
Mountain Regions
✟20,405.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Uh I don't think any man can sentence any other man to anything Spiritual. :) Only God can choose in whom to save and Have Mercy upon. It is sin that sentences a man to eternal damnation.

And of course you do not see the logical fallacy openly contained in your statements?
 
Upvote 0

squint

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2007
16,182
903
Mountain Regions
✟20,405.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I think the calvinist position allows one to be less critical of the lost.

We all were born in the same state and only God can change our hearts and bring us out of that state.

I cannot look own on someone for acting according to their nature, for I was once in the same boat

Was? When did you stop sinning?

and only by the Grace of God am I able to be other than the same. Why fault a tiger for acting like a tiger.

Or a sinner for a sinner?

If I thought it was their own choice to remain in such a state then the blame should be on them and it would be their own fault that they do not change from their chosen state.

I'm not aware that any believer was promised sinless flesh or mind.
 
Upvote 0

DD2008

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2008
5,033
574
Texas
✟8,121.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
You think it an act of LOVE then to call yourself and your fellow mankind totally depraved? Is that what LOVE really does?

The last time I checked LOVE KEEPS NO RECORD of wrongs, so I'm not sure on what recorded basis you can claim those you are to LOVE are totally depraved if LOVE does that.


Speaking the truth is very loving indeed. Love is never demonstrated in lies. Love and truth go hand and hand.

Ephesians 4:15
[15] Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,

1 John 3:18
[18] Little children, let us not love in word or speech but in deed and in truth.

2 Thessalonians 2:10
[10] and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
 
Upvote 0

PETE_

Count as lost, every moment not spent loving God
Jun 11, 2006
170,116
7,562
60
✟220,061.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

chestertonrules

Well-Known Member
Dec 17, 2007
8,747
515
Texas
✟11,733.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I think the calvinist position allows one to be less critical of the lost.

We all were born in the same state and only God can change our hearts and bring us out of that state.

.

Less critical and less compassionate.

After all, you can't help save their soul.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.