Calvinist Dispensationalist?

[Livindesert]

Is it possible to be Reformed and a Dispensationalist?

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

No.....IMHO.

 

[Livindesert]

What about just Calvinist and Dispensationalist?

 

[the particular baptist]

Yes, if by calvinist you mean TULIP. Dispensationalism thankfully is dying, a slow death, but dying. A good study on that is by a former dispy turned baptist covenantalist, A.W. Pink - A Study of Dispensationalism.

 

[ReformedChapin]

Most ministers and members from Presbyterian Churches (such as OPC and PCA) and "Reformed Churches" ( such as the URC) will state that you must adhere to a "reformed confession" which is the three forms of unity and the westminster confession of faith this typically leaves baptists out of the circle (some of them mind some of them don't). All the confessions tend to be covenantal in nature so by this definition NO a dispensational cannot be "reformed" in the traditional sense. Although now a days people tend to equate reformed with the five points of calvinism.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

What about just Calvinist and Dispensationalist?

In that case...yes. My former SBC pastor was just that.

 

[Livindesert]

I was dispensationalist then I was Reformed then I was Arminian now I am back to a Calvanistic quasi-dispensationalist. I figured I would get the pulse of the reformed forum to see what you guys think about dispensationalism.

 

[Livindesert]

From Wikipedia on Dispensationalism-Many Protestant and Calvinist writers, including Herman Witsius, Francis Turretin, and Isaac Watts also developed dispensation schemes and divisions, in particular after the Westminster Confession of Faith noted "various dispensations."

 

[Hammster]

I believe MacArthur is dispy.

 

[Nilloc]

I was actually thinking about making a thread on this topic the other day . . .

Anyway, I did have a related question: Is it possible for one to be Reformed, but also believe in a distinction between the Church and Israel? Cause, it seems to me, that most Dispensationalists critcize Reformed people because of their views on that topic. There are also some people I've seen who seem to believe in a distinction, but also consider themselves Reformed.

 

[ReformedChapin]

I was actually thinking about making a thread on this topic the other day . . .

Anyway, I did have a related question: Is it possible for one to be Reformed, but also believe in a distinction between the Church and Israel? Cause, it seems to me, that most Dispensationalists critcize Reformed people because of their views on that topic. There are also some people I've seen who seem to believe in a distinction, but also consider themselves Reformed.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by distinction.

 

[Livindesert]

I believe MacArthur is dispy.

Found this interesting article where MacArthur goes in depth into his dispensationalism.

So let me tell you, I have been accused through the years of being a "leaky dispensationalist" and I suppose I am.-MacArthur

 

[Nilloc]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by distinction.

Ah sorry. I guess what the dispute comes down to is whether or not Gentile Christians are part of Israel today. Dispensationalist would say no. Most Reformed people would say yes. My question, is whether or not one could be Reformed and say that Gentile Christians are not part of Israel.

I have an idea as to what the answer would be, simply because so much of the debate (in what I've seen) comes down to this issue.

 

[kenrapoza]

From a reformed perspective it really comes down to Christ. Is Christ the true and good Israel - and the telos of the law? Are people of all nations, tribes and tongues united to Christ through saving faith? Was the nation of Israel a temporary means God used to spread the gospel and bring about the messiah, not to be repeated after he has already come?

 

[the particular baptist]

Christ is True Israel and all that are in Him are Israel. The old jewish economy was only a type and shadow.

Dont take my word for it. God's says so in His book.

Hosea 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Matthew 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.




There was only one covenant made with Abraham and his seed. Seed singular, not plural. Covenant singular, not plural. God's plan was from the beginning to have a people for Himself from the whole world and His people are Israel.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Revelation 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.


The foundation of the church is built on the prophets and apostles. The 1st century of the church was predominantly hebrew and there are hebrew christians today. There is no special race of people that endears them to God based on their race or anything else, especially circumcision of the flesh. If men received special favor from God because they were circumcised, which is all it takes to become a hebrew, then we would all go get circumcised.

 

[mlqurgw]

Can one hold to TULIP and be dispensationalist? Yes. Can one be Dispensationalist and be Reformed? No. The difference lies in the fact that Dispensationalism is founded on God's working through several dispensations, they don't even agree as to how many, each separate from the other. Reformed theology is founded on God as a covenant God working all of the various time periods as a progressive revelation of the eternal covenant of grace. Taken to its logical conclusion Dispensationalism makes God to save in different ways according to which dispensation happens to be at the time. That is why they separate the Jews from the church. Dispensational theology is fairly new and actually can be traced to the dreams of a woman. Dispensationalism focuses on dividing the Scriptures where Covenant theology focuses on the continuity of the Scriptures. Dispensationalism comes from a woodenly literal interpretation while Covenant sees the figurative language applied to Israel as a type. Dispensationalism makes the whole of the Old Testament moot except the few prophecies that they still think apply to the coming age. Dispensationalism must focus on the future because the whole scheme falls when it doesn't. The reason why the argument is mostly about Israel and the church is because if Dispensationalism is correct then God has 2 kingdoms and 2 purposes which divides the church from Israel. More than that it means that God turning to the Gentiles must have been a sort of plan B.

Also when you read of men of a bygone age using the word dispensations you must understand that they were using the woord in its original meaning not as the Dispensationalist does. A dispensation in its original meaning simply meant a period of time.

 

[the particular baptist]

Dispensational theology is fairly new and actually can be traced to the dreams of a woman.

John Darby's wife i think. Let the dipys base their hermeneutics on John Darby's wife's dreams 1850 years after Pentecost, i will not.

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

The question above is one of the reasons to define our terms. It is possible to be a Calvinist and a Dispensationalist. John McArthur is a Calvinst and a dispensationalist. He is not Reformed.

It is also important remember that all Christians believe there are "dispensations" of time. We all divide things up for some reason or another. Dispensationalism is a very particular school of theology that has God dealing differently with His people under different dispensations and requires a premillennial eschatology.

Hope that helps.
Kenith

 

[mlqurgw]

John Darby's wife i think. Let the dipys base their hermeneutics on John Darby's wife's dreams 1850 years after Pentecost, i will not.

I don't think it was Darby's wife but I can't remember the woman's name. I will have to find the information again.

 

[Livindesert]

I don't think it was Darby's wife but I can't remember the woman's name. I will have to find the information again.

I just got shown some ECF quotes about dispensationalism. Not that ECF's are any better than other theologins but just to show the dispensation idea has been around a while.

Irenaeus 177 AD
Against Heresies 1.10 - What the church believes: One God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His future manifestation from heaven. The raising up anew all flesh of the whole human race. The angels who transgressed and became apostates, together with the ungodly, and unrighteous, and wicked, and profane among men, will be cast into everlasting fire. Those who have kept His commandments, and have persevered in His love, some from the beginning of their Christian course, and others from the date of their repentance, with everlasting glory.
Against Heresies 3.11 - Montanists set at nought the gift of the Spirit, which in the latter times has been, by the good pleasure of the Father, poured out upon the human race, do not admit that aspect of the evangelical dispensation presented by John's Gospel, in which the Lord promised that He would send the Paraclete (John 16); but set aside at once both the Gospel and the prophetic Spirit. Wretched men indeed! who wish to be pseudo-prophets, forsooth, but who set aside the gift of prophecy from the Church; acting like the Encratitae who, on account of such as come in hypocrisy, hold themselves aloof from the communion of the brethren. We must conclude, moreover, that the Montanists can not admit the Apostle Paul either. For, in his Epistle to the Corinthians, he speaks expressly of prophetical gifts, and recognizes men and women prophesying in the Church. Sinning, therefore, in all these particulars, against the Spirit of God.
Against Heresies 3.15 - Jesus and the Father are the only true God. Jesus gave Moses the dispensation of the Law.
Note: He talks a lot about dispensations (of the Law, of Christ, of the church, of the day of the Lord ...)
Against Heresies 4.4 - The Law started with Moses and ended with John.
Against Heresies 4.16 - Men were never released from the Decalogue. We however do not observe the Sabbath, or circumcision.
Against Heresies 4.34 - Jesus fulfilled the Law and prophets, then did away with it, and gave a new covenant.
Against Heresies 5.8 - In the dispensation of Law the clean animals represented spiritual man and the unclean animals represented the carnal man.
Against Heresies 5.17 - "He has destroyed the handwriting" of our debt, and "fastened it to the cross;"
Against Heresies 5.32 - Some of the orthodox are ignorant of God's dispensations.