Calvinism Refuted

[nobdysfool]

Actually, the response you are referring to was intended to, and could reasonably accomplish each of those objectives--revealing a problem in the original question, revealing something about the questioner, and a teaching tool.

Jesus' questions made them want to kill Him. Not exactly positive results.

However, you achieved none of those aims, so the original question remains unanswered: Do men deserve salvation?

It's a simple question, which can be answered with one word, either way. Of course, the one word answer will lead to much more in the way of questions, answers, and theological discussion.

Why is it that you don't want to provide an answer?

Rev 3:15b-16 "'Would that you were either cold or hot! (16) So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth."

 

[drstevej]

Chuck Colson: Have you seen the light, Gordon?

Gordon Liddy: I am not even looking for the switch!


=====

Such is the natural man.

 

[drstevej]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]However, the day came when Liddy repented. He was invited to a Bible study group by some former FBI colleagues he had known for 30 years. They were sharp, compassionate and well-read, and he agreed to go, but only after saying, "Please don't try to convert me. I don't want to be bothered." Many people, says Liddy, experience a "rush of emotion" in conversion. Yet as he began to look into the Bible, for him there came a "rush of reason". He realised Christ was who he claimed to be. And Gordon Liddy became a Christian. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Liddy shows the genuineness of his repentance in the following words: [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Now the hardest thing I have to do every single day is try to decide what is God's will, rather than what is my will. What does Jesus want, not what does Gordon want. And so the prayer that I say most frequently is, 'God, first of all, please tell me what you want - continue the communication. And second, give me the strength to do what I know you want, what your will is, rather than my own.' I have an almost 57-year history of doing what I want, what my will wants, and I have to break out of that habit into trying to do the will of God.
[/FONT]
source

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]====[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Such is the work of a sovereign God[/FONT]

 

[archierieus]

Yes, I would like to see you "evaluate" the belief that simply being born a man places you into the family of God, and He treats you as He would His own son. This is what would have to be true in order for your prior defense of MamaZ's question to make any sense.

Now then, let's take a look at this seminal question of whose children humans are:

1) Agreed that God created Adam and Eve?
2) Agreed that every human being is a descendant of Adam and Eve?

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

Now then, let's take a look at this seminal question of whose children humans are:

1) Agreed that God created Adam and Eve?
2) Agreed that every human being is a descendant of Adam and Eve?

1) Yes
2) Yes

Once again, trying to base an argument on a false premise. But continue, please...

 

[archierieus]

1) Yes
2) Yes

Once again, trying to base an argument on a false premise. But continue, please...

Please identify what you think the premise is.

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

Please identify what you think the premise is.

No, go ahead! By all means.

 

[archierieus]

No, go ahead! By all means.

Well, if a premise is believed to be false, then it is good to explain what one thinks the premise is.

But at any rate, then, if all humans are descended from Adam and Eve, and God created Adam and Eve, then every human is a child of God.

 

[student ad x]

 

[Zoness]

Reps to the OP for title.

Lurking.

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

Well, if a premise is believed to be false, then it is good to explain what one thinks the premise is.

But at any rate, then, if all humans are descended from Adam and Eve, and God created Adam and Eve, then every human is a child of God.

So is Satan a "child of God"? I understand that בן אלהים (ben elohiym) can refer to angels, as I believe it does in Genesis 6, meaning they are "sons of God", however, you would hardly believe that God cares for Satan as a son, right?

The mere fact that a volitional being was created by God does not confirm that they are "in the family of God". One must be "born again" or "born from above" before he is born into the family.

Further, I am a partaker in Traducian theology. This may be off topic, so I will not get into it in depth. But I do not believe God created every soul, and they are put into the body by God at the time of procreation. I believe that man has the ability to procreate body and soul, meaning every man is born of Adam, not of God.

 

[chestertonrules]

Further, I am a partaker in Traducian theology. This may be off topic, so I will not get into it in depth. But I do not believe God created every soul, and they are put into the body by God at the time of procreation. I believe that man has the ability to procreate body and soul, meaning every man is born of Adam, not of God.

Everything that exists is a creation of God.

John 1
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

Everything that exists is a creation of God.

John 1
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Here you go again with the conclusions. I never said that all things weren't. I said this:

But I do not believe God created every soul, and they are put into the body by God at the time of procreation

You take my words out of context.

This is what I believe:

I believe that man has the ability to procreate body and soul, meaning every man is born of Adam, not of God.

God gave man this ability, when He breathed the "breath of lives" into Adam at his creation. חיי is said to be in the plural here, but it is never translated this way for some reason. William Shedd would be considered the authority on this subject.

 

[archierieus]

So is Satan a "child of God"? I understand that בן אלהים (ben elohiym) can refer to angels, as I believe it does in Genesis 6, meaning they are "sons of God", however, you would hardly believe that God cares for Satan as a son, right?

We had been discussing human beings, and that is the scope at this point. Every human being is a child of God.

The mere fact that a volitional being was created by God does not confirm that they are "in the family of God". One must be "born again" or "born from above" before he is born into the family.

Are you denying that some people are in fact children of God? If so, then who created them? Do you contend that the devil created people also?

Further, I am a partaker in Traducian theology. This may be off topic, so I will not get into it in depth. But I do not believe God created every soul, and they are put into the body by God at the time of procreation. I believe that man has the ability to procreate body and soul, meaning every man is born of Adam, not of God.

I agree with Kittel's scholarly treatment of the subject, see his article on psuche, that the Bible does not teach dichotomy.

 

[drstevej]

By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. 1 Jn. 3:10

 

[chestertonrules]

Here you go again with the conclusions. I never said that all things weren't. I said this:



You take my words out of context.

This is what I believe:



God gave man this ability, when He breathed the "breath of lives" into Adam at his creation. חיי is said to be in the plural here, but it is never translated this way for some reason. William Shedd would be considered the authority on this subject.

You crack me up!

Does a soul exist?

 

[archierieus]

This is what I believe:



God gave man this ability, when He breathed the "breath of lives" into Adam at his creation. חיי is said to be in the plural here, but it is never translated this way for some reason. William Shedd would be considered the authority on this subject.

Same term is used in reference to every living creature, see Gen. 8. Whatever meaning Mr. Shedd may attempt to extract, every Bible translation renders it 'breath of life.' No doubt they had good reason to do so.

 

[drstevej]

You crack me up!

Does a soul exist?

Sure

 

[archierieus]

By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. 1 Jn. 3:10

What does this mean to you? Do you think John means that some people were not the descendants of Adam and Eve, but that Satan created some people? Is that the meaning you assign to 'children of the devil'? If not, then what does it mean to you?

 

[nobdysfool]

Here you go again with the conclusions. I never said that all things weren't. I said this:



You take my words out of context.

This is what I believe:



God gave man this ability, when He breathed the "breath of lives" into Adam at his creation. חיי is said to be in the plural here, but it is never translated this way for some reason. William Shedd would be considered the authority on this subject.

God created living things to reproduce after their own kind. That implies that He does not directly create out of nothing every blade of grass, every tree, every baby animal or every baby human. He created all living things to have the ability to reproduce. Adam and Jesus were the only 2 humans directly created. And, before someone jumps to a false conclusion, when I say Jesus was created, I mean Jesus' humanity.

God created a new man and the Son became one with the newly created human at the moment of its creation. Jesus was (and still is) the Second Adam. Jesus did not inherit or come into being as a human through any agency of man, nor was any part of Adam's race a part of His humanity. Mary was the world's first surrogate mother. that which she carried was supernaturally created, in toto, not God taking one of her ova and fertilizing it, as some wrongly assume.

So, Adam was a child of God. All who came after him are children of Adam, and only those born again are children of God. God's children are so by two births. God does not have grandchildren...