Calvinism Refuted

[MamaZ]

exactly and thats exactly what happens when you put this verse into context with other scripture

this verse is not easy to understand without it

2 Peter 3

15and regard the (AP)patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also (AQ)our beloved brother Paul, (AR)according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,
16as also in all his letters, speaking in them of (AS)these things, (AT)in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and (AU)unstable distort, as they do also (AV)the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
17You therefore, (AW)beloved, knowing this beforehand, (AX)be on your guard so that you are not carried away by (AY)the error of (AZ)unprincipled men and (BA)fall from your own steadfastness,
18but grow in the grace and (BB)knowledge of our (BC)Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (BD)To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

Free willers say only if it is the will of men because God will not go against Mans will and cannot.. So therefore help with God will glorify their free will choice.. Sad.. Sad.. Sad..

 

[Hammster]

I question any doctrine that REQUIRES extensive extra-biblical reading just to understand



if you can't explain it with the scripture



theres a problem

I understand Calvinism without extra-biblical reading. And it can be explained with just scripture. You just won't listen.

 

[&Abel]

God will not force salvation or damnation

this is true

 

[MamaZ]

we as in freewillers

point out some holes for me

The first big hole is that freewillers believe they just need Gods help.. When they need the Fulness of Christ to even understand what is written to his chosen and elect..

 

[&Abel]

I understand Calvinism without extra-biblical reading. And it can be explained with just scripture. You just won't listen.

so explain it in simple terms instead of claiming you can

 

[&Abel]

The first big hole is that freewillers believe they just need Gods help.. When they need the Fulness of Christ to even understand what is written to his chosen and elect..

not just help...

Christ is absolutely EVERYTHING all human beings require to fill the void and become a part of life

 

[nobdysfool]

once again 90% about me

so whats the strongest verse the Calvinist has then?

You are not going to set the parameters and control the debate. You want to make this into a "mine is bigger than yours" contest. That's juvenile, it is carnal, and it is ridiculous.

What you obviously take offense to is someone trying to give you some good solid, advice to educate yourself, and quit making yourself look foolish. But, you obviously are not interested in any helpful advice. Apparently, you don't believe you need it. So be it.

It is typical of the attitude prevalent today, lack of respect for elders, just kick them to the side, because they're out of touch, and can't keep up.

Youth is wasted on the young.....

I will pray for you, that God opens your eyes.

 

[&Abel]

You are not going to set the parameters and control the debate. You want to make this into a "mine is bigger than yours" contest. That's juvenile, it is carnal, and it is ridiculous.

What you obviously take offense to is someone trying to give you some good solid, advice to educate yourself, and quit making yourself look foolish. But, you obviously are not interested in any helpful advice. Apparently, you don't believe you need it. So be it.

It is typical of the attitude prevalent today, lack of respect for elders, just kick them to the side, because they're out of touch, and can't keep up.

Youth is wasted on the young.....

I will pray for you, that God opens your eyes.

its ok if you don't have a verse

just admit it instead of these stupid games

 

[&Abel]

Romans 11

16If the (AA)first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.
17But if some of the (AB)branches were broken off, and (AC)you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,
18do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that (AD)it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
19(AE)You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you (AF)stand by your faith (AG)Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's (AH)kindness, (AI)if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also (AJ)will be cut off.
23And they also, (AK)if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?



so what exactly is happening here? how can someone who was once a part of the tree(and has access to the Spirit) fall away?


they would not truly be a part of the tree if they never had the Spirit to begin with...not the tree of the NC anyways

 

[nobdysfool]

its ok if you don't have a verse

just admit it instead of these stupid games

I could post a ton of them. But I have enough respect for the Word of God to not put them in front of someone who despises instruction.

I'm not playing games. But you are. You are engaging in brinking, flaming, and insulting Christians who you don't agree with. How Christ-like!

 

[MamaZ]

Rom 11:1 I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
Rom 11:3 "Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE."
Rom 11:4 But what is the divine response to him? "I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL."
Rom 11:5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice.
Rom 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
Rom 11:7 What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened;

 

[&Abel]

I could post a ton of them. But I have enough respect for the Word of God to not put them in front of someone who despises instruction.

I'm not playing games. But you are. You are engaging in brinking, flaming, and insulting Christians who you don't agree with. How Christ-like!

you are actually describing yourself right now

but you must know that at some level

give me one verse(Thats all I asked for)

the verse that best supports the Calvinist position

 

[nobdysfool]

you are actually describing yourself right now

but you must know that at some level

give me one verse(Thats all I asked for)

the verse that best supports the Calvinist position

Joh 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (2) The same was in the beginning with God. (3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (4) In him was life; and the life was the light of men. (5) And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
.
1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

 

[&Abel]

Rom 11:1 I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
Rom 11:3 "Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE."
Rom 11:4 But what is the divine response to him? "I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL."
Rom 11:5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice.
Rom 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
Rom 11:7 What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened;

Romans 11

1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?



8just as it is written,
"(M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR,
EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT,
DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY."

9And David says,
"(N)LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP,
AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM.
10"(O)LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT,
AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER."

14if somehow I might (V)move to jealousy (W)my fellow countrymen and (X)save some of them.
15For if their rejection is the (Y)reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but (Z)life from the dead?

 

[&Abel]

Joh 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (2) The same was in the beginning with God. (3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (4) In him was life; and the life was the light of men. (5) And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
.
1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1 Peter 1

1(A)Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as (B)aliens, (C)scattered throughout (D)Pontus, (E)Galatia, (F)Cappadocia, (G)Asia, and (H)Bithynia, (I)who are chosen 2according to the (J)foreknowledge of God the Father, (K)by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to (L)obey Jesus Christ and be (M)sprinkled with His blood: (N)May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.



20For He was (BO)foreknown before (BP)the foundation of the world, but has (BQ)appeared in these last times (BR)for the sake of you

1 John 5

1(A)Whoever believes that Jesus is the [a]Christ is (B)born of God, and whoever loves the Father (C)loves the child born of Him. 2(D)By this we know that (E)we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.



1 John 2


2and He Himself is (E)the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also (F)for those of the whole world.

29If you know that (BU)He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness (BV)is born of Him.

 

[nobdysfool]

1Jn 5:1 (LITV) Everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ has been generated from God. And everyone who loves Him who begets also loves the one who has been born of Him.

1Jn 5:1 (YLT) Every one who is believing that Jesus is the Christ, of God he hath been begotten, and every one who is loving Him who did beget, doth love also him who is begotten of Him:

1Jn 5:1 (ESV) Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.

 

[&Abel]

1Jn 5:1 (LITV) Everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ has been generated from God. And everyone who loves Him who begets also loves the one who has been born of Him.

1Jn 5:1 (YLT) Every one who is believing that Jesus is the Christ, of God he hath been begotten, and every one who is loving Him who did beget, doth love also him who is begotten of Him:

1Jn 5:1 (ESV) Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.

yep

 

[nobdysfool]

You don't see the significance of this verse, do you? I know you don't.

 

[&Abel]

You don't see the significance of this verse, do you? I know you don't.

I really don't

I believe we must believe as well

what is specifically Calvinist about this verse to you?

 

[drstevej]

give me one verse(Thats all I asked for)

the verse that best supports the Calvinist position

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.