Calvinism Refuted

[MamaZ]

Rom 1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,
Rom 1:2 which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures,
Rom 1:3 concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh,
Rom 1:4 who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,
Rom 1:5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,
Rom 1:6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;
Rom 1:7 to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world.
Rom 1:9 For God, whom I serve in my spirit in the preaching of the gospel of His Son, is my witness as to how unceasingly I make mention of you,
Rom 1:10 always in my prayers making request, if perhaps now at last by the will of God I may succeed in coming to you.
Rom 1:11 For I long to see you so that I may impart some spiritual gift to you, that you may be established;
Rom 1:12 that is, that I may be encouraged together with you while among you, each of us by the other's faith, both yours and mine.
Rom 1:13 I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that often I have planned to come to you (and have been prevented so far) so that I may obtain some fruit among you also, even as among the rest of the Gentiles.
Rom 1:14 I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish.
Rom 1:15 So, for my part, I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

 

[&Abel]

Proverbs 1

20(AB)Wisdom shouts in the street,
She lifts her voice in the square;
21At the head of the noisy streets she cries out;
At the entrance of the gates in the city she utters her sayings:
22"How long, O (AC)naive ones, will you love being simple-minded?
And (AD)scoffers delight themselves in scoffing
And fools (AE)hate knowledge?
23"Turn to my reproof,
Behold, I will (AF)pour out my spirit on you;
I will make my words known to you.
24"Because (AG)I called and you (AH)refused,
I (AI)stretched out my hand and no one paid attention;
25And you (AJ)neglected all my counsel
And did not (AK)want my reproof;
26I will also (AL)laugh at your (AM)calamity;
I will mock when your (AN)dread comes,
27When your dread comes like a storm
And your calamity comes like a (AO)whirlwind,
When distress and anguish come upon you.
28"Then they will (AP)call on me, but I will not answer;
They will (AQ)seek me diligently but they will not find me,
29Because they (AR)hated knowledge
And did not choose the fear of the LORD.
30"They (AS)would not accept my counsel,
They spurned all my reproof.
31"So they shall (AT)eat of the fruit of their own way
And be (AU)satiated with their own devices.
32"For the (AV)waywardness of the naive will kill them,
And the complacency of fools will destroy them.
33"But (AW)he who listens to me shall live securely
And will be at ease from the dread of evil."

 

[MamaZ]

Proverbs 1

20(AB)Wisdom shouts in the street,
She lifts her voice in the square;
21At the head of the noisy streets she cries out;
At the entrance of the gates in the city she utters her sayings:
22"How long, O (AC)naive ones, will you love being simple-minded?
And (AD)scoffers delight themselves in scoffing
And fools (AE)hate knowledge?
23"Turn to my reproof,
Behold, I will (AF)pour out my spirit on you;
I will make my words known to you.
24"Because (AG)I called and you (AH)refused,
I (AI)stretched out my hand and no one paid attention;
25And you (AJ)neglected all my counsel
And did not (AK)want my reproof;
26I will also (AL)laugh at your (AM)calamity;
I will mock when your (AN)dread comes,
27When your dread comes like a storm
And your calamity comes like a (AO)whirlwind,
When distress and anguish come upon you.
28"Then they will (AP)call on me, but I will not answer;
They will (AQ)seek me diligently but they will not find me,
29Because they (AR)hated knowledge
And did not choose the fear of the LORD.
30"They (AS)would not accept my counsel,
They spurned all my reproof.
31"So they shall (AT)eat of the fruit of their own way
And be (AU)satiated with their own devices.
32"For the (AV)waywardness of the naive will kill them,
And the complacency of fools will destroy them.
33"But (AW)he who listens to me shall live securely
And will be at ease from the dread of evil."

Love the book of Proverbs.. But remember these where written at the time of the OC and not the NC where the Isrealites where Gods Chosen under the law..

 

[&Abel]

proverbs is hardly limited to the OC and you know it

besides it doesn't change the fact that God called and was rejected by MEN

its even more significant being in the OC days

 

[MamaZ]

proverbs is hardly limited to the OC and you know it

besides it doesn't change the fact that God called and was rejected by MEN

its even more significant being in the OC days

LOL Did I say it was limited to the OC? We know that God was rejected by men.. Even His own as we read in scripture.. Jesus came first to His own chosen of Isreal and they did not receive Him.. Only those whom God called and predestined came to Him.. These He will raise up in the last days to live with Him forever..

 

[&Abel]

but I Thought the chosen couldn't reject? His own CHOSEN people rejected Him

 

[MamaZ]

Why does it bother some to understand that God is greater than all and He does His own calling and bidding for He alone is sovereign? He alone created the heavens and the earth.. He created all things without the help or will of any man..

 

[&Abel]

you claim in Calvinism that it is God who does the rejecting

 

[&Abel]

Why does it bother some to understand that God is greater than all and He does His own calling and bidding for He alone is sovereign? He alone created the heavens and the earth.. He created all things without the help or will of any man..

why does it bother you so much that God wants ALL men to come to the knowledge of the truth?

 

[MamaZ]

but I Thought the chosen couldn't reject? His own CHOSEN people rejected Him

have you not read that God divorced Isreal and He now has a new bride?

 

[&Abel]

have you not read that God divorced Isreal and He now has a new bride?

but he shouldn't of had to divorce at all since the chosen cannot reject

 

[nobdysfool]

you claim in Calvinism that it is God who does the rejecting

Actually, no. Calvinism teaches that God does the choosing. Those He does not choose, by nature reject.

 

[nobdysfool]

&Abel, you seriously need to take some time to learn what Calvinism actually teaches, and what it does not teach. The statements and accusations you make about Calvinism and Calvinists serve to underscore your abysmal lack of knowledge about Calvinism. As such, your posts wind up being either straw men, or provocative brinking and goading. Either way, when the Calvinists here try to correct you, you get petulant and snarky, which only serves to undermine your own position even more, because Jesus wouldn't act that way.

The first step to gaining knowledge is to admit that you don't know. Those who pontificate about things they know nothing about just make fools of themselves in the view of those who do know the subject.

 

[&Abel]

Actually, no. Calvinism teaches that God does the choosing. Those He does not choose, by nature reject.

I thought you were ignoring me?

so how come the jews are no longer the chosen people?

He chose them and they failed

 

[MamaZ]

but he shouldn't of had to divorce at all since the chosen cannot reject

Did Isreal choose not to be Gods? Nope.. They to this day believe they are the children of Abraham and are still awaiting Christ to come for they could not believe that it was He who came.. God has chosen out of Isreal a remenant that will be His through Christ.. They will be gathered for they are chosen of God. You can bet your life on it for what God has declared that He will do.. He is faithfu.

 

[&Abel]

&Abel, you seriously need to take some time to learn what Calvinism actually teaches, and what it does not teach. The statements and accusations you make about Calvinism and Calvinists serve to underscore your abysmal lack of knowledge about Calvinism. As such, your posts wind up being either straw men, or provocative brinking and goading. Either way, when the Calvinists here try to correct you, you get petulant and snarky, which only serves to undermine your own position even more, because Jesus wouldn't act that way.

The first step to gaining knowledge is to admit that you don't know. Those who pontificate about things they know nothing about just make fools of themselves in the view of those who do know the subject.

so explain Calvinism in your own simple terms

if you can't do that then theres a problem

 

[&Abel]

Actually, no. Calvinism teaches that God does the choosing. Those He does not choose, by nature reject.

if His choosing is all that is required for salvation He IS rejecting those who he does not choose

 

[MamaZ]

if His choosing is all that is required for salvation He IS rejecting those who he does not choose

How so? For they do not come to Him.. They do not even seek to know Him.. How can one reject what does not come to Him? This makes no sense.. Men do not deserve anything from God.. For He is Holy and men are sinners..

 

[&Abel]

Did Isreal choose not to be Gods? Nope.. They to this day believe they are the children of Abraham and are still awaiting Christ to come for they could not believe that it was He who came.. God has chosen out of Isreal a remenant that will be His through Christ.. They will be gathered for they are chosen of God. You can bet your life on it for what God has declared that He will do.. He is faithfu.

the jews are no longer the chosen people

all people are now chosen

thats what the new covenant is all about

 

[&Abel]

How so? For they do not come to Him.. They do not even seek to know Him.. How can one reject what does not come to Him? This makes no sense.. Men do not deserve anything from God.. For He is Holy and men are sinners..

because you claim those who are chosen would have done the exact same thing had God not interceded

so if God stepping in is whats required to achieve salvation then He is rejecting those He does not step in for

this is simple stuff people