Calvinism Refuted

[archierieus]

Does all always mean everyone or every thing? Let's take a look.



1 Corinthians 10:23 ALL things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. (Try that with the cops)



1 Corinthians 15;22 For as in Adam ALL die, so also in Christ ALL shall be made alive. (I wonder what Pharaoh, Hitler, Saddam, etc. think about that)



1 Peter1:24 All flesh is like grass... (Jesus must be getting pretty old by now)



Luke 13:17 As He said these things ALL His adversaries were put to shame and ALL the people rejoiced at all the glorious things done by Him. (So every adversary was put to shame AND rejoiced. And they did this with every person on the planet then and now. )



Mark 1:5 And ALL the country of Judea and ALL Jerusalem were going out to see him. (John the Baptist sure could draw a crowd)

Will get back to these later this evening.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

1 Corinthians 15;22 For as in Adam ALL die, so also in Christ ALL shall be made alive. (I wonder what Pharaoh, Hitler, Saddam, etc. think about that)

According to the tenses here, they are still "dying"

http://www.scripture4all.org/

1 Corinthians 15:22 For just as in the adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all shall be being made alive

1 Corinthians 15:22 wsper gar en tw adam panteV apoqnhskousin outwV kai en tw cristw panteV zwopoihqhsontai

 

[Hammster]

Then please do share your understanding of the issue you mentioned a few posts back--which is, you seem to see a difference between belief and faith, in some way. Please specify and clarify.







As for the Calvinist view of 'regeneration,' we are familiar with that generally speaking. At the moment, we are looking at the Scriptural teaching about regeneration, rather than the Calvinist view which so far does not appear to be Scriptural. Another term would perhaps be more appropriate and less confusing for that early stage of spiritual growth.

Faith that allow us to believe is given to us dead sinners. It is a quickening of our spirit which then makes us able to understand our sin, see the offense it is to God which then leads to repentance and forgiveness.



I may have covered both with one sentence.

EDIT I am sure that if I AM off a bit, mt Calvinist brothers will set me straight. But it is close.

 

[cygnusx1]

Arno C. Gaebelein in The Gospel of John (Neptune: Loizeaux Brothers, 1965) writes, “Water here is figurative of the Word of God as it is also in the thirteenth chapter, in connection with the feet washing of the disciples, and in Ephesians 5:26: ‘The washing of water by the Word.’ Then there are three passages which show conclusively that the Word of God is meant: I Corinthians 4:15, ‘for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the Gospel,’ James 1:18, ‘Of His own will begat He us with the Word of Truth,’ and I Peter 1:23. In the last named passage Peter writes: ‘Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.’ This Petrine statement is sufficient to silence the view that water baptism is an agent in the new birth. . . . The Spirit of God uses the Word of God to bring about the new birth. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing cometh by the Word of God. The Word believed and accepted, the Holy Spirit accomplishes by His power the new birth, and the new nature, the eternal life is received”





Arthur W. Pink in the Exposition of the Gospel of John (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1975) writes, “If then the Lord Jesus used the word “water” emblematically in John 3:5, to what was He referring? We answer, The Word of God. This is ever the instrument used by God in regeneration”



James Montgomery Boice in The Gospel of John, Vol. 1 (Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 2005, paperback edition) writes, ”Water is also a metaphor for the written Word of God, the Bible. Thus, Ephesians 5:26 says that Christ gave himself for the church “to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word.” In I John the same author who composed the fourth Gospel distinguishes between the witnesses to Christ on earth of ”the Spirit, the water and the blood” (I John 5:8). Since he then goes on to speak of God’s written witness to the fact that salvation is in Christ, in this context the Spirit must refer to God’s witness within the individual, the blood to the historical witness of Christ’s death, and the water to the Scriptures. Psalm 119:9 declares, “How can a young man keep his way pure? By living according to your word.” Jesus said, “You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you” (John 15:3)

 

[cygnusx1]

Originally Posted by Robert Pate

Everyone has faith. Some have faith in the goverment. Some have faith in their husbands and wives. It is a God given attribute that everyone is born with.
​

Originally Posted by cygnusx1

nonsense , saving faith is not equivalent to simple belief , you will be saying everyone is granted NEW birth next ... because everyone experiences birth.
​

It is impossible for you to factually prove your theory

wrong again !

2 Thess ;

3:2 All men have not faith

this text , if you were correct ought to read , "all men choose not to use their faith" .....

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by cygnusx1

nonsense , saving faith is not equivalent to simple belief , you will be saying everyone is granted NEW birth next ... because everyone experiences birth.

wrong again !
​

2 Thess ;

3:2 All men have not faith

this text , if you were correct ought to read , "all men choose not to use their faith" .....

Interesting verse when looked at in the greek. So do a lot of arguements on doctrines and such hinge on translations? Just curious....

2 Thess 3:2 And that we should be being rescued from the un-placed and wicked men for not of-all the faith

2 Thessalonians 3:2 kai ina rusqwmen apo twn atopwn kai ponhrwn anqrwpwn ou gar pantwn h pistiV

 

[cygnusx1]

Interesting verse when looked at in the greek. So do a lot of arguements on doctrines and such hinge on translations? Just curious....

2 Thess 3:2 And that we should be being rescued from the un-placed and wicked men for not of-all the faith

2 Thessalonians 3:2 kai ina rusqwmen apo twn atopwn kai ponhrwn anqrwpwn ou gar pantwn h pistiV

simple belief may seem like saving faith , it isn't as James indicates.

demons believe and tremble .........

"Even fallen angels affirm the oneness of God and tremble at its implications. Demons are essentially orthodox in their doctrine (cf. Matt. 8:29,30; Mark 5:7; Luke 4:41; Acts 19:15). They know the truth about God, Christ, and the Spirit, but hate it and them. Orthodox doctrine by itself is no proof of saving faith."

MacArthur,

 

[JDS]

Remember, JDS doesn't know anything about Calvinism except that he doesn't like it.

Hammster

With all due respect to you as a religious person, you never say anything of any importance. You are the king of the one liners.

Someone who is not willing to defend his theology but posts questions and comments as you do must have a hidden motive for doing so. I am beginning to wonder if you know anything about Calvinism.

 

[drstevej]

More "hidden motives".

LOL

 

[JDS]

More "hidden motives".

LOL

I am thinking he might be trying to better learn the system so he can join the fray with intelligence. heh heh

 

[drstevej]

I am thinking he might be trying to better learn the system so he can join the fray with intelligence. heh heh

I have not the foggiest notion what your comment means.

 

[nobdysfool]

Hammster

With all due respect to you as a religious person, you never say anything of any importance. You are the king of the one liners.

Someone who is not willing to defend his theology but posts questions and comments as you do must have a hidden motive for doing so. I am beginning to wonder if you know anything about Calvinism.

He knows more than you, evidently....besides,. he used to be on your side in the debate. Now, he's done some study (far more than you apparently), and he's now defending Calvinist theology from the nay-sayers and obstinate anti-Calvinist rhetoricians who have been trying in vain to bring down the truth. You have yet to do due diligence to actually learn that which you oppose. Hammster is miles ahead of you in that regard, and his "one-liners" are quite effective at exposing the weaknesses of your position.

As it is, you are essentially damning him with faint praise.....

 

[drstevej]

If one line will do, why use more?

 

[nobdysfool]

If one line will do, why use more?

Amen! Brevity is the soul of wit.

 

[archierieus]

Faith that allow us to believe is given to us dead sinners. It is a quickening of our spirit which then makes us able to understand our sin, see the offense it is to God which then leads to repentance and forgiveness.

Thank you for your response. Your formulation is extremely significant. Please post Scriptures which state it, in particular this portion:

It is a quickening of our spirit which then makes us able to understand our sin, see the offense it is to God which then leads to repentance and forgiveness.

You are saying this in reference to faith. Please, the Scriptures which state that. Thank you.

Dave

 

[cygnusx1]

He knows more than you, evidently....besides,. he used to be on your side in the debate. Now, he's done some study (far more than you apparently), and he's now defending Calvinist theology from the nay-sayers and obstinate anti-Calvinist rhetoricians who have been trying in vain to bring down the truth. You have yet to do due diligence to actually learn that which you oppose. Hammster is miles ahead of you in that regard, and his "one-liners" are quite effective at exposing the weaknesses of your position.

As it is, you are essentially damning him with faint praise.....

I agree , and am surprised at the effectiveness of Hammster's suggestive questions ... they add to debate and reduce heat , now he will have to decide how to handle these negative personal jibes , I don't think it will be a problem

 

[Hammster]

Hammster







With all due respect to you as a religious person, you never say anything of any importance. You are the king of the one liners.







Someone who is not willing to defend his theology but posts questions and comments as you do must have a hidden motive for doing so. I am beginning to wonder if you know anything about Calvinism.

Interesting coming from you... Every time I have engaged you about why you are using certain verses the way you do, you would get to a point were you would go on a rant about how evil and wrong Calvinism is. And the post that I responded to was just another example of that.



I have admitted repeatedly that I AM new to Calvinism. But I AM not new to scripture. It is because there are so many loopholes in the view you and others hold that I started believing in the doctrines of grace.



Tho other interesting thing about your comment is that it shows that either you don't pay attention, or you are just trying to lash out. I have answered every question you have asked of me., and I have asked clarifying questions of you... The one liners, while short (and mostly funny) usually point out the weakness in someone's position, or a response to another rant.



That's all I have to say about that. (Not really, but enough for now.)

 

[Hammster]

Paul's admonition about the whole armor of God is addressed to believers who are already connected to Christ. As for non-believers, God is reaching out to them to help them see their need of a Savior, and to point them to Jesus. As they recognize their sinfulness in comparison with Jesus' purity, they are led to repentance and the desire for a better way, and are drawn to Jesus by the Holy Spirit. (Jn. 12:32) The goodness of God leads them to repentance and to accept Jesus as their Savior. As for Scripture, yes, glad to provide them, a bit later.

Sorry Archie, but I am not going to let you dodge once again. You are the one who keeps demanding scripture, and yet when it is required of you, it is always "later".

So later is now. If you want to refute Calvinism, be my guest. We welcome the challenge. At least JDS, even though he doesn't like me, will stand up for what he believes and never tries to skirt the issue or demand from us what is is unwilling to provide. For that, I respect him.

If I was doing this on my laptop instead of my cell phone, I would go back and list al of the times you were going to answer, or give proof, "later".

So gives us this refutation. We are waiting. You made a statement. Defend it.

 

[Benefactor]

Nope. Never claimed it.

Just wanted to make sure. Some one said of recent past, "Words, Just Words"

 

[archierieus]

dodge once again.

That would be an assumption on your part.

it is always "later".

Inaccurate. Not 'always,' but at times, depending on schedules.

So later is now. If you want to refute Calvinism, be my guest.

Hmmm. I made a summary statement about God reaching out to people. This you describe as 'refuting Calvinism'? Interesting.

You made a statement. Defend it.

If you are referring to my mention of providing Scriptures, will take care of that as able. Meanwhile, since you apparently do have time, please provide the Scriptures in support of your statement about faith.