I did not fall off the tater wagon. If one must be pre-elected to be saved, being elected is more important than the cross unless all are pre elected. Those who are not pre elected are not impacted by the cross, pro or con.
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I did not fall off the tater wagon. If one must be pre-elected to be saved, being elected is more important than the cross unless all are pre elected. Those who are not pre elected are not impacted by the cross, pro or con.
- May 19, 2015
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I would be careful. You don't want to get your name on this site.......
I will not give the name of this CF poster
http://www.fstdt.com/default.aspx
quote: There are a lot of things I have concluded to be wrong, without studying them in-depth.
Evolution is one of them. The fact that I don't know that much about it does not bother me in the least.
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- Apr 5, 2007
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Even when we give answers to what we believe, you still argue.
Just because I started to believe the Reformed view a few months ago doesn't mean I abandoned the cross. Quite the opposite. It actually means more and makes more sense now. It is more personal now to know that Jesus died for me, not as a hope that I would believe, but for some reason He chose me. Without Christ I am a dirt bag. Literally. There is nothing in me worth saving. I weep even as I type this, just thinking about it.
So I find the cross of most importance, for without it I am lost. I will cling to the old rugged cross.
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BW, I need a chapter and verse for this. You are complicating things!
Sola Scriptura!
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Bulstrode Whitelock
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It's not that black and white.
We're not Catholics where there is a long list of irrefutable dogmas the denial of any of which requires excommunication.
There are essentials and there are adiaphora.
You're right on essentials and wrong on adiaphora.
Or I assume you are. You haven't given me anything to think you aren't.
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cygnusx1
Jacob the twister.....
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what else can he do , he admits he doesn't know the subject he is attacking , wasn't it him who started this thread .... bashing anything that moves ? I mean just wait a little while , we will hear Calvinists don't care about the lost .. it's like a stuck record.
btw , I know a Calvinist who left full time work , what for ? to knock on peoples doors and share the Gospel with them , no church backing , just the conviction he ought to do it , and he isn't even a Charismatic!
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I do it seriously and that is why I do not have election in my ordo.
I have explained my reasoning before and will do it again if asked.
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- Mar 18, 2003
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Yep, you do not know Calvinism.
Please read this slowly....
If election and the cross have the same individuals in mind as Calvinism teaches, then they are equally important.
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what else can he do , he admits he doesn't know the subject he is attacking , wasn't it him who started this thread .... bashing anything that moves ? I mean just wait a little while , we will hear Calvinists don't care about the lost .. it's like a stuck record.
btw , I know a Calvinist who left full time work , what for ? to knock on peoples doors and share the Gospel with them , no church backing , just the conviction he ought to do it , and he isn't even a Charismatic!
Caricature?
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Bulstrode Whitelock
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Simply put, God is eternal, all knowing, all powerful and unchanging.
The Bible says He chose us before the foundation of the world.
He didn't decide later in time that the cross would be the means by which he did so making it secondary to His choice, the cross was His purpose then, which for Him is now, everything is now.
It's part of the whole deal.
Salvation is a package, from election to glory and every step on the way.
In the will of God it makes no sense to think of these things as happening subsequent to one another. If we put them in an order it is only because we understand one to be logically dependent upon the other. So His choice, election, comes first, but this does not mean that it precedes anything in time or that it has any precedence in importance.
The Bible says He chose us before the foundation of the world.
He didn't decide later in time that the cross would be the means by which he did so making it secondary to His choice, the cross was His purpose then, which for Him is now, everything is now.
It's part of the whole deal.
Salvation is a package, from election to glory and every step on the way.
In the will of God it makes no sense to think of these things as happening subsequent to one another. If we put them in an order it is only because we understand one to be logically dependent upon the other. So His choice, election, comes first, but this does not mean that it precedes anything in time or that it has any precedence in importance.
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Is your answer then "no"? The person and work of Jesus Christ on the cross is not fundamental to the Christian faith? And did you mean adiaphoria?
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This looks exactly like a Protestant vs Roman Catholicism thread. Exciting I say!Originally Posted by JDSwhy are you wanting to be ugly?
Your staement does not address my question to you.
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what of you ? you must be joking .....
no , it was mr pate who started this one , after a while it all sounds like one man.......
Most of the men are gracious, more so than me, but not you!
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Bulstrode Whitelock
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Okay well the first one speaks of our being chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world and the rest speak of the Lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world.
So you have our election and the cross joined before the foundation of the world.
If you have not removed these passages from the Bible, you must have them in your ordo salutis.
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