Calvinism Refuted

[LittleLambofJesus]

I'm fairly sure thats a perfectly acceptable sentence

Arch knows grammar(I had to replace my misspelling of grammEr ) better than I obviously

Both Hebrew and Greek are not the easiest languages to translate into english and I believe that is what Archerius spoke of earlier.
The LXX is good to use as a source for the OT but it is not the most reliable.
I did find the use of the greek word the LXX used in Isaiah 26:19 interesting.

Pretty fascinating as that is the exact same form Paul used in 1 Thess 4:16

Isaiah 26:19 They shall live/rise-up, ones being dead/04191 muwth of thee, carcase/05038 n@belah of me they shall rise. Awake! and be jubilant ye! ones dwelling of soil, that dew-of lights dew of thee and-land healers/07496 rapha' she is casting down.

[LXX] Isaiah 26:19 anasthsontaioinekroikaiegerqhsontaioientoivmnhmeioivkaieufranqhsontaioienthghhgar drosov hparasouiamaautoivestinhdeghtwnasebwnpeseitai

1 Thessalonians 4:16 That Himself, the Lord, in a shout-of-command in voice of Chief-Messenger and in trump of God, shall be descending from heaven and the dead-ones in Christ shall be ressurecting/rising-up/ana-sthsontai <450> (5698) First

 

[&Abel]

I want to you know what you believe not what some other guy believes

I want to know that you actually understand what you are advertising

 

[heymikey80]

I'm fairly sure thats a perfectly acceptable sentence

Arch knows grammar(I had to replace my misspelling of grammEr ) better than I obviously

its related to the style of speech of the time

Greek doesn't use the present tense as an indefinite tense, though.

English does.

That's why the second example works in English.

 

[&Abel]

well I guess it comes down to the greek then

Arch?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

well I guess it comes down to the greek then

Arch?

Looking at how the greek renders hebrew words in the NT is also interesting

Haggai 2:6 That thus He says, YHWH of Hosts: Yet one little, she, and I am quaking the Heavens and the Land and the Sea and the Dry/03004 yabbashah, [Hebrews 12:26]

Matthew 23:15 Woe to ye Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! that ye are going about the Sea and the Dry/xhran <3584> to make one proselyte and whenever he may be becoming, ye are making him a son of geennhV twofold-more of ye-selves

 

[&Abel]

Looking at how the greek renders hebrew words in the NT is also interesting

Haggai 2:6 That thus He says, YHWH of Hosts: Yet one little, she, and I am quaking the Heavens and the Land and the Sea and the Dry/03004 yabbashah, [Hebrews 12:26]

Matthew 23:15 Woe to ye Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! that ye are going about the Sea and the Dry/xhran <3584> to make one proselyte and whenever he may be becoming, ye are making him a son of geennhV twofold-more of ye-selves

ok but does the sentence make sense in greek as is?

"He who steals from the collection plate has committed a sin"

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

ok but does the sentence make sense in greek as is?

"He who steals from the collection plate has committed a sin"

Why are you so hung up on that?

Matthew 23:15 Woe to ye Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! that ye are going about the Sea and the Dry/xhran <3584> to make one proselyte and whenever he may be becoming, ye are making him a son of geennhV twofold-more of ye-selves

Luke 23:31 That if in the moist wood/xulw <3586> these-things they are doing, in the Dry/xhrw <3584>, what may be becoming?

 

[&Abel]

Why are you so hung up on that?

Matthew 23:15 Woe to ye Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! that ye are going about the Sea and the Dry/xhran <3584> to make one proselyte and whenever he may be becoming, ye are making him a son of geennhV twofold-more of ye-selves

Luke 23:31 That if in the moist wood/xulw <3586> these-things they are doing, in the Dry/xhrw <3584>, what may be becoming?

cause its a good example and I'd like to know

 

[&Abel]

but you don't have too obviously...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

cause its a good example and I'd like to know

Good example of what?

 

[&Abel]

Good example of what?

nevermind

 

[Hammster]

I want to you know what you believe not what some other guy believes

I want to know that you actually understand what you are advertising

Okay, I know what I believe.

I understand what I am advertising.

How's that?

You wouldn't accuse me of lying, would you?

 

[&Abel]

Okay, I know what I believe.

I understand what I am advertising.

How's that?

You wouldn't accuse me of lying, would you?

so tell me then...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I am taking a break from this thread for awhile. It has been interesting.

 

[archierieus]

That's why it's "very much" and not "exactly". There is every implication of precedence, specifically in time. If we're only talking about these two things -- sure, the implication is definitely of "born" being first.

It's simply prior to the "believing". It is.

But it is not. It is descriptive rather than precedental.

But the precedent, the antecedent, is "born of God".

The one who believes is born of God. That is, being born of God means you are a believer in Jesus as Messiah. If you are truly born of God you will be a believer in Jesus. The emphasis is on believing in Jesus as Messiah, which was at issue when John was writing.

 

[Hammster]

so tell me then...

God saves sinners.

 

[&Abel]

God saves sinners.

agreed

 

[drstevej]

God saves sinners.

That is Calvinism.

Arminianism:

God saves choosers.

 

[the particular baptist]

The one who believes is born of God. That is, being born of God means you are a believer in Jesus as Messiah. If you are truly born of God you will be a believer in Jesus.

Yes ?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That is Calvinism.

Arminianism:

God saves choosers.

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

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Arminianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Arminianism is a school of soteriological thought within Protestant Christianity based on the theological ideas of the Dutch Reformed theologian Jacobus Arminius (1560-1609)[1] and his historic followers, the Remonstrants. The doctrines' acceptance stretches through much of mainstream Christianity, including evangelical Protestantism.
Arminianism holds to the following tenets: