Walter2013
Top of the mornin' to ya
Paul's gospel taught justification by faith. You don't seem to understand the difference between justification and regeneration.
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Jesus promoted a works salvation. I guess you think He didn't understand the gospel either.
Paul's gospel promoted salvation without works, not the gospel Jesus preached.
How is that different from what you believe? Don't you believe that you have to do things to be saved?
Yes. You have to believe to be saved. You also believe that.
Believe.
Hey! A condescending response. Not at all surprised. I expected that from you.
Then Jesus told his disciples, If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. (Matthew 16:24-25 ESV)
Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few." (Matthew 7:13-14 ESV)
And someone said to him, Lord, will those who are saved be few? And he said to them, Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. (Luke 13:23-24 ESV)
Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? And then will I declare to them, I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness. (Matthew 7:21-23 ESV)
It seems your words are the exact opposite of what Jesus says. Again. What you fail to understand in your "works salvation" accusation against John MacArthur is that all the things he (and the Bible) mentions are evidences of regeneration. We don't do good works to be saved. We do good works because we ARE saved and have regenerate hearts. Good works are a product of regeneration, not the cause of regeneration. Therefore, your "works salvation" charge is nonsense. I suspect you'll continue refusing to see this distinction so you can continue your anti-obedience, anti-Lordship, you can become a non-believing believer and hate Jesus all the way to heaven crusade.
Why are you running AWAY from the centerpiece of your limitation theology, Skala? What's that about?Freegrace2ism provides those in hell with an excuse.
They can say "God didn't save me!!!"
Therefore, they have an excuse.
Wow Griff, I thought you had it, but then your last paragraph reverted back to man's doctrine.
You are saying you are regenerated (a new life) the easy way, that is, nothing on your part. However Jesus said the way that leads to life is hard. How is the way that leads to life hard by your definition of regeneration?
Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy (regeneration without cooperation from man) that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few." (Matthew 7:13-14 ESV)
Why should one? What's wrong with the view that I have provided? Is it not accurate about Calvinism?One needs to view this from the other side, imo. Not that there are people in hell with an excuse, but that there are people in heaven who had no excuse.
Right. He CHOSE them, and not the others, giving the others that excuse.People in heaven are there because God did not dispense justice upon them, as He did with those in hell.
ONLY because He ONLY chose some.We all deserve hell, but because of God's mercy, some are in heaven.
Actually, I'm not arguing about anything. I have challenged Calvinism with a charge, and so far, no one has been able to refute my charge. They just ignore and distance themselves from the centerpiece of Calvinism, which is your view of election and atonement. And it DOES provide an excuse.Your argument is not with Calvinism but with God.
I have done that decades ago. But thanks for your concern.The good thing is, if you are genuinely concerned it is because the Holy Spirit is working on you to also accept Christ's payment for your sin.
This is about discipleship, not about getting saved. It takes a bit of discernment to know the difference.Then Jesus told his disciples, If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. (Matthew 16:24-25 ESV)
The narrow gate is the gate of faith. What do you think it is?Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few." (Matthew 7:13-14 ESV)
See?And someone said to him, Lord, will those who are saved be few? And he said to them, Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. (Luke 13:23-24 ESV)
The will of the Father is clearly stated in Jn 6:40.Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? And then will I declare to them, I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness. (Matthew 7:21-23 ESV)
Not at all. You just don't understand the difference between being a disciple and getting saved.It seems your words are the exact opposite of what Jesus says.
Slick try. What he said was very clear: it takes hard work to enter the kingdom. I quoted him directly. He teaches a works salvation but denies that he does.Again. What you fail to understand in your "works salvation" accusation against John MacArthur is that all the things he (and the Bible) mentions are evidences of regeneration.
Tell that to Mac. He needs to hear it.We don't do good works to be saved.
Apparently you aren't understanding anything I quoted from him. Go back and try again.We do good works because we ARE saved and have regenerate hearts.
It is legit, but your comprehension is very poor.Good works are a product of regeneration, not the cause of regeneration. Therefore, your "works salvation" charge is nonsense.
Can you prove any of this with Scripture that actually SAYS what you CLAIM here?Regeneration simply and only cures blindness.
It must never be confused with conversion.
Regeneration is contentless.
Regeneration doesn't save us. It is a precursor
to salvation.
Even makes salvation possible, as the blind/deaf/
hard-of-heart can't see/hear/accept the Gospel.
But nobody is saved by regeneration. They're
saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ
alone hearing the Gospel alone.
Regeneration only allows them to hear that Gospel.
This is a completely nonsensical response. Where does Paul lie, or admit to lying?
Nowhere. And Peter calls Paul's letters SCRIPTURE. Please point to where White or Sproul wrote holy scripture. You've tried to dodge but it isn't going to work.
We are justified by faith alone. Works are evidence of regeneration. Without works, there is no salvation. But that doesn't mean your works are the cause of your salvation. You still haven't explained to us why Jesus had to die. It's okay though. I understand. It's an assault on your self-righteous works you want to present to God. Too bad they're like a used tampon before a thrice holy God.
Yep. Works are evidence of a changed heart. Justified by faith. Works demonstrate that faith is genuine. Do you not understand the reformed position?
Paul's gospel taught justification by faith. You don't seem to understand the difference between justification and regeneration.
Cool story bro. You obviously have no clue what the difference between justification and regeneration is. But hey. Good on ya for giving it a go.
Cool story bro. You obviously have no clue what the difference between justification and regeneration is. But hey. Good on ya for giving it a go.
Then I must ask, what was Paul's gospel?
Romans 2:16 - on the day when, according to my gospel,
Romans 16:25 - Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel
2 Timothy 2:8 -Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, descendant of David, according to my gospel,
Once you find what Paul's gospel was, then please show me where Jesus and the disciples preached the same gospel.
Where do we find a warning not to deny the authority of scripture? I believe we are told to test a prophet's words to see if he speaks for God or for himself. Is Paul exempt, while every other prophet (genuine or fake) has been tried by this test.
It's not wise to take a man's word, especially if he speaks for God, with blind abandonment.
I'll give you one: Do not work for the food which perishes, but [work] for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal (John 6:27).
What you forget to add, nowhere does Jesus say faith without works will save you. In fact, James, who was with Jesus during His entire ministry made it clear to all who will hear, faith without works will not save you. Jesus' whole ministry was about faith, love, works, and obedience for salvation.
Why would one not want to heed the Savior's words, which are eternal life? Why would one want to trust their very soul to a man who admitted to lying and deception, without testing him?
Listen to these words of Jesus in Luke 13:
23 Then one said to Him, Lord, are there few who are saved?And He said to them,
24 Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open for us, and He will answer and say to you, I do not know you, where you are from"
Notice Jesus was asked about salvation (v.23). His reply was to strive (contend, labor fervently) to enter the narrow gate. Many will seek to enter and not be able. Why? They didn't strive to enter. They thought they could enter on some other easier, and more comfortable terms (faith alone with no works nor striving). But Jesus will say to them, "I DO NOT KNOW YOU, WHERE YOU ARE FROM"
Since Jesus is the Savior Himself, I think it would be wise to hear His words and heed them. Don't trust your soul to a man who disagrees with Jesus' words of life.
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