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sdowney717

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Ephesians 4:11
And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,

He Himself, that is Christ authorized some teachers, not all teachers are of Christ, some are false prophets, false pastors, false teachers, etc...
'Christianity is hitched to one man', yet Christ gave some as teachers to the church. There exist teachers for God's purposes, they are authorized and anointed by God. Your 'opinion' of what is 'grave error', seems very much anti calvinist to me. Your 'opinion' though is worthless, what matters is only the scripture, and of that are many various opinions on what it means. God's Holy Spirit though is the author and scripture is not open to a private interpretation by man. Scripture is only known as the truth with understanding when the Holy Spirit teaches us, His Spirit to our spirit.
Many though are and will be deceived.

An example is the elect of Matthew 24 and the rapture.
Matthew 24
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you.
5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

So we see Christ says many will be deceived in the last days.

The Coming of the Son of Man
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


The 'elect' are on the earth even immediately after the tribulation of those days. Yet many people teach and believe in the 'pre tribulation' rapture of the church. Yet Christ teaches His elect are still on the earth. even when shown these scriptures of Christ's own description of the last days, and Christ does not teach a pre trib rapture, they remain unwavering and deceived.

So then what deceptions do you hold onto?
 
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Salem

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The proof is on the Calvinist to reconcile their beliefs with the Bible. I already do.

Which is impossible, the entire Bible about our God telling us to choose righteousness. Calvinism crossing over into stupidity, void of common sense, regardless that God wishes none to perish, 2 Peter 3:9, regardless "whosoever" of John 3:16, and many, many more verses that plainly contradict the Calvinist's bizarre doctrines.

They have a God that does not exist, is capricious, creating damned and saved babies, their God telling people to choose that the Calvinist claims aren't able to choose: it's all ridiculous. It would appear they don't even know themselves, that we all have wills to make choices, by nature.

As mentioned in another post, though, I don't hear anybody subscribing to these things, can't remember the last time hearing that junk preached. I believe it's just an online controversy that people are trolling over, since I don't hear this from anybody in real life environments. Most of what goes on in the online environment is trolling over some error, even to the point of some reviving ancient heresies, to pick fights over.
 
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tulipbee

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Blah blah blah, Jesus is still my Lord
 
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sdowney717

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And about that 'great sound of a trumpet' Paul teaches more here about those who are left alive (on the earth) till Christ's coming.
For some are deceived thinking Matthew 24 elect believers are already in heaven at that time having been raptured.

The Comfort of Christ’s Coming
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
 
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sdowney717

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It is amazing, isn't it? They'd have Christ seeking the predestined lost?
Christ came to seek and to save the lost, that is the lost sheep of Christ who are of Abraham's seed, who are of God's promise to Abraham according the the Spirit and not according to the flesh.

Matthew 15:24
But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

This has never changed, this is still the truth of where Christ is sent.
Any one who has faith is proven to be of that house of Israel, that is Abraham's seed.
Galatians 3:29
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

IF your an heir, then your an inheritor of eternal life according to God's promise HE made to Abraham.
And that is to where Christ is sent, only to the lost sheep of that house of Israel, which you are if you belong to Christ.
The lost sheep belong to Christ and He goes and finds them, since He is their good shepherd, which is the parable of the lost sheep.

Who does Christ help to salvation?
The seed of Abraham.
Hebrews 2
13 And again:

“I will put My trust in Him.”

And again:

“Here am I and the children whom God has given Me.”

14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
 
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EmSw

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It is amazing, isn't it? They'd have Christ seeking the predestined lost?

I've already asked this. Did God predestined you to be a lost sinner? I got no answers, for that would mean God's predestination changes.

Those who think they are predestined to salvation, can't be sure of it, for God could change it at any moment, and predestine them to hell.
 
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Patmos

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Are they predestined to hope ?
 
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Patmos

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I would add James White youtube.

Anyone know if he preaches the same stuff from the pulpit ?
 
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Salem

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Study scripture predestination. Scripture predestination is about those who have received Jesus Christ being conformed to the image of Christ. Start with looking at 1 Timothy 2, paying note to the clear statement in v4. This one verse blows false Calvinistic predetermination completely out of the water, along with others, but this one verse enough.

God having foreknowledge of all things doesn't mean He is the author of men's sinful choices, or has forced His will on the saved. God may know the number of hairs on your head, even how you'll cut it, in the future, but this doesn't mean He chose your hair style. He may know what you will eat for breakfast any given day, but didn't choose which cereal or that it would be eggs. That God transcends time, scripture proves, but this doesn't mean He has any hand in sin and evil. It this not entirely obvious? He knows what the antichrist will do, in every detail, but does that mean God is antichrist? That He made antichrist's choices?

Biblical predestination has solely to do with being conformed to the image of Christ, study Romans 8. The answers are in scripture. Like all truth, we only need seek that truth. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Less time in forums, more time prayerfully seeking and studying God's truths in scripture can work wonders. After awhile, you can say you've got the answers, and know when to take a pass on all the foolishness, pandemic these days. You're seeing so much here that was thoroughly discredited, generations ago, just a rehash of some very old error that makes for "good" internet fights, that nasty and unprofitable people enjoy.

Find Spirit filled saints of God, sound, fundamentalist Bible teachers, good commentaries, looking for shared agreements among sources, to help you with scripture. The most direct path to truth is not a congregation where tares and trolls also have a voice, and make the most noise. I can't believe people would even say a lot that you see in forums and still claim Christ.
 
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Salem

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I would add James White youtube.

Anyone know if he preaches the same stuff from the pulpit ?

Sorry, unfamiliar. I ran out of rubber gloves, for keying in YouTube searches. (Just kidding. There is some good stuff on YouTube, if you've got all day to find it.)
 
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tulipbee

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Are they predestined to hope ?
Hope is on man's time while predestination is on God's time. Just cause you're garenteed to be saved via knowing you're saved doesn't mean you can murder and not be accountable for it. All that is left in man's time is hope due to not knowing the mystery
 
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tulipbee

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God never had to change. Men thought wrong
 
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Patmos

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If an action is done without God's envolvment, then that action would never have existed. Folks want to leave God out and create imaginations to believe in. Lots of fantasies here on tol

Hmm, still no idea what you are on about! NM
 
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SnowyMacie

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Yes, God does have a plan, however, that means nothing other than God has a plan. God's plan is to redeem humanity and restore the world, that is the theme of scripture from Genesis 1 (technically 4, since the fall happens in 3) to Revelation 22, and it is up to us whether or not we want to be apart of his plan. A plan does not imply predestination.


God is sovereign, but that does not mean humanity has no free will. Kings are sovereign over countries, but their citizens have free will. The sovereignty if God is not at opposition to the free will of mankind.


If mankind is completely and truly fallen and completely incapable of good, then he can't be faulted for his sins. It's one thing to say that human nature is fallen and mankind is predisposed to sin and is born into sin, which is Augustinian Origian Sin, it's another thing to say that mankind is so fallen he cannot possibly do any kind of good. Furthermore, while scripture does mention original sin, there's nowhere that indicates complete depravity.



From God himself, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." This is also not mention the notion of election completely takes away any need for evangelism, as no amount of our own influence will matter since God has already chosen who will and who will not be saved, or really even life a Christian life at all. Now Jesus does mention dying for his friends, but he also mentions that if we follow his commandment, we will be called friends, and it does mention the elect, which are those inside the covenant, however, all are welcomed to it.



Scripture talks about salvation (not conversion) as a lifelong process, not a one-time event, which is why scripture gives us many warnings about falling away and staying in the faith.
 
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