Calvinism, explained.

Patmos · Apr 28, 2016

EmSw said:
Wasn't he at one time on this forum? The name sounds familiar.

Not see anything, though I am a noobie. Be good If he was and quoted his own stuff.

EmSw · Apr 28, 2016

Patmos said:
Not see anything, though I am a noobie. Be good If he was and quoted his own stuff.

If he was here, it has been some time ago.

GillDouglas · Apr 28, 2016

No man can will anything to happen. If the Lord wills it to be, it shall be.

The fault of most having a theological misunderstanding in regards to God and His sovereignty lies completely in the modern church. The vision of God in relation to events, people, all things is of an inactive observer who may decide to interact when He feels up to it. The modern church no longer cares to dive into the unfathomable truth and nature of God in the Bible, but rather create a being of popular modern beliefs so as not to offend those who attend their service.

This modern church is progressive, politically correct, light, shallow, entertainment-oriented, and successful in furthering only the worldly agenda. The cool and hip God of the 'fun-church' is simply too busy and too small to hold a hurricane in His hand. No longer do these churches preach that God Himself holds all the power in this world and all the value in which all things are dependent and contingent on. They'd rather give power to Satan by fearing him and not fearing God.

No doubt that Satan does play his part with the havoc of this world by maneuvering the evils and his agents such as Stalin or Hitler or Saddam into positions of murderous power. But Satan can not act on his own authority but only by God's permission and within God's appointed limits. This is made perfectly clear over and over again in the Bible. God is sovereign over Satan's use of the evil rulers, of sickness, of death, of animals, of temptation, of spiritual bondage, of natural disaster and of all the Satanic power behind them. They do not move without His permission, and they do not move outside his sovereign plan, ever.

The evil and suffering in this world are greater than any of us can comprehend. But evil and suffering are not ultimate. God is. Satan, the great lover of evil and suffering, is not sovereign. God is. And when I say that God is sovereign, I do not merely mean that God has the power and right to govern all things, but that he does govern all things, for his own wise and holy purposes.

“He does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, ‘What have you done?’” (Daniel 4:35)

He declares “the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose.’” (Isaiah 46:10)

“Who has spoken and it came to pass, unless the Lord has commanded it? Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and bad come?” (Lamentations 3:37-38; Amos 3:6)

“Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand.” (Proverbs 19:21; 16:9)

“The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord.” (Proverbs 16:33)

“See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand” (Deuteronomy 32:39).

Patmos · Apr 29, 2016

Calvinism Explained
Total Depravity (Total Inability)
Total Depravity is probably the most misunderstood tenet of Calvinism. When Calvinists speak of humans as "totally depraved," they are making an extensive, rather than an intensive statement. The effect of the fall upon man is that sin has extended to every part of his personality -- his thinking, his emotions, and his will. Not necessarily that he is intensely sinful, but that sin has extended to his entire being.

The unregenerate (unsaved) man is dead in his sins (Romans 5:12). Without the power of the Holy Spirit, the natural man is blind and deaf to the message of the gospel (Mark 4:11f). This is why Total Depravity has also been called "Total Inability." The man without a knowledge of God will never come to this knowledge without God's making him alive through Christ (Ephesians 2:1-5).

My Comments:
(This blows apart the 'calvinist' on this thread who states man's freewill has an impact on his salvation. Genuine Calvinists reject this totally.)

Patmos · Apr 29, 2016

Calvinism Explained

Unconditional Election
Unconditional Election is the doctrine which states that God chose those whom he was pleased to bring to a knowledge of himself, not based upon any merit shown by the object of his grace and not based upon his looking forward to discover who would "accept" the offer of the gospel. God has elected, based solely upon the counsel of his own will, some for glory and others for damnation (Romans 9:15,21). He has done this act before the foundations of the world (Ephesians 1:4-8).

2nd Paragraph
This doctrine does not rule out, however, man's responsibility to believe in the redeeming work of God the Son (John 3:16-18). Scripture presents a tension between God's sovereignty in salvation, and man's responsibility to believe which it does not try to resolve. Both are true -- to deny man's responsibility is to affirm an unbiblical hyper-calvinism; to deny God's sovereignty is to affirm an unbiblical Arminianism.

3rd Paragraph
The elect are saved unto good works (Ephesians 2:10). Thus, though good works will never bridge the gulf between man and God that was formed in the Fall, good works are a result of God's saving grace. This is what Peter means when he admonishes the Christian reader to make his "calling" and "election" sure (2 Peter 1:10). Bearing the fruit of good works is an indication that God has sown seeds of grace in fertile soil.

Being of the Arminian persuasion I obviously object to the hi-light in blue. This is obviously meant as a wind up to cause division.

My Comments:
"some for glory and others for damnation" is a basic foundation of Calvinism. Quoted in The Intistutres. Dort WCF and every other Calvinist text. However the modern Calvinist generally ( not all but most) cannot stomach this teaching so dodges around it ad infinite. Hence threads like this one.

2nd Paragraph
Interesting - apart from the anti Christian jibe. It is true that both are true. As I have repeated many time in this thread, Surgeon said quote "I cannot reconcile the two, they are NOT reconcilable" . This blows apart the stars dodge called 'Compatiblism'.

Hyper Calvinism - odd as most ( not all) modern day Calvinist major on predestination and effectively deny man's responsibility. Hence all of the non Calvinist fraternity on this forum objections.

3rd Paragraph
The supposes meaning assigned to Peter. I left this is as I did not want to alter this Calvinist text one jot, even though I thing the statement is rather silly.

Patmos · Apr 29, 2016

Calvinism Explained

Limited Atonement (Particular Redemption)
Limited Atonement is a doctrine offered in answer to the question, "for whose sins did Christ atone?" The Bible teaches that Christ died for those whom God gave him to save (John 17:9). Christ died, indeed, for many people, but not all (Matthew 26:28). Specifically, Christ died for the invisible Church -- the sum total of all those who would ever rightly bear the name "Christian" (Ephesians 5:25).

This doctrine often finds many objections, mostly from those who think that Limited Atonement does damage to evangelism. We have already seen that Christ will not lose any that the father has given to him (John 6:37). Christ's death was not a death of potential atonement for all people. Believing that Jesus' death was a potential, symbolic atonement for anyone who might possibly, in the future, accept him trivializes Christ's act of atonement. Christ died to atone for specific sins of specific sinners. Christ died to make holy the church. He did not atone for all men, because obviously all men are not saved. Evangelism is actually lifted up in this doctrine !!!, for the evangelist may tell his congregation that Christ died for sinners, and that he will not lose any of those for whom he died!

My Comments :
This doctrine often finds many objections - a huge amount by Calvinists themselves. Particularly Charles Spurgeon - See sermon 1615 where he shoots down the WRONG conclusion "because obviously all men are not saved".

Why have I left this in ? Because I did not want to alter this Calvinist text one jot.

Evangelism is actually lifted up in this doctrine !!! Really ?

Patmos · Apr 29, 2016

Calvinism Explained

Irresistible Grace
The result of God's Irresistible Grace is the certain response by the elect to the inward call of the Holy Spirit, when the outward call is given by the evangelist or minister of the Word of God. Christ, himself, teaches that all whom God has elected will come to a knowledge of him (John 6:37). Men come to Christ in salvation when the Father calls them (John 6:44), and the very Spirit of God leads God's beloved to repentance (Romans 8:14). What a comfort it is to know that the gospel of Christ will penetrate our hard, sinful hearts and wondrously save us through the gracious inward call of the Holy Spirit (I Peter 5:10)!

My Comments:
Raises the question why the pre-elect have "hard, sinful hearts".

But this is what Calvinism teaches. It also stands or falls on the belief that evangelism is only effective for the elect as God has pre fixed it such the non elect cannot hear the call - sometime called the outward call, or common grace - which is a total waste of time to the prefixed puppets. Thus implying God as the author of evil.

Patmos · Apr 29, 2016

Calvinism Explained

Perseverance of the Saints
Perseverance of the Saints is a doctrine which states that the saints (those whom God has saved) will remain in God's hand until they are glorified and brought to abide with him in heaven. Romans 8:28-39 makes it clear that when a person truly has been regenerated by God, he will remain in God's stead. The work of sanctification which God has brought about in his elect will continue until it reaches its fulfillment in eternal life (Phil. 1:6). Christ assures the elect that he will not lose them and that they will be glorified at the "last day" (John 6:39). The Calvinist stands upon the Word of God and trusts in Christ's promise that he will perfectly fulfill the will of the Father in saving all the elect.

Patmos · Apr 29, 2016

Calvinism Explained

The preceding 5 posts - are copied WITHOUT CHANGE from a CALVINIST web site.

No doubt some pretend calvinist will object to this which is why I have copied WITHOUT CHANGE from a CALVINIST web site - http://www.reformed.org.

The Calvinist who I have quoted finishes with :
"This description of the Five Points of Calvinism was written by Jonathan Barlow who acknowledges that not all those bearing the name "Calvinist" would agree with every jot and tittle of this document.
http://www.reformed.org/calvinism/

From what can be seen from the shenanigans played out on this very thread, I can only conclude this is an understatement in the extreme. Several contributors to this thread charge "you do not understand Calvinism...". Evidently they have little idea themselves.

Marvin Knox · Apr 29, 2016

<staff edit>
You do purposefully leave out the part that disavows that they are teaching deterministic coercion on the part of God.

The confession emphasizes this point by saying, among other things what follows.

I quote here again those important clauses from the confession.

"for their sin……..though, in relation to the foreknowledge and decree of God, the first Cause, all things come to pass immutably, and infallibly; yet, by the same providence, He orders them to fall out, according to the nature of second causes, either necessarily, freely, or contingently. …...yet so, as the sinfulness thereof proceeds only from the creature, and not from God, who, being most holy and righteous, neither is nor can be the author or approver of sin."

<staff edit>

The Westminster Confession of Faith, in spite of it not being perfect, has stood the test of time. It formed the foundation for the Puritan founders of our nation. It was the foundation for the beliefs of many of the most Godly and evangelistic men in history.

The WCF can withstand, without much damage to it's core statements, almost anything that can be hurled against it by the world.

However, no Christians creed can possibly withstand for long being dishonestly portrayed by believer's themselves.

EmSw · Apr 29, 2016

Marvin Knox said:
"for their sin……..though, in relation to the foreknowledge and decree of God, the first Cause, all things come to pass immutably, and infallibly; yet, by the same providence, He orders them to fall out, according to the nature of second causes, either necessarily, freely, or contingently. …...yet so, as the sinfulness thereof proceeds only from the creature, and not from God, who, being most holy and righteous, neither is nor can be the author or approver of sin."

The first cause is always responsible for what follows. Without a first cause, there would be no second, third, or fourth cause. The first cause is necessarily the author, for it is its beginning.

Just including a clause, does not change the truth of the first cause being the author. Show me a second cause which didn't get its course of action from a first cause.

<staff edit>

Patmos · Apr 29, 2016

WCF Chapter III

yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.

II. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions;[ yet has He not decreed anything because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.

III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.

Patmos · Apr 29, 2016

IV. These angels and men, thus predestinated, and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.

V. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, has chosen, in Christ, unto everlasting glory, out of His mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith, or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving Him thereunto; and all to the praise of His glorious grace.

Patmos · Apr 29, 2016

VI. ( for some reason this I cannot post this - CF just freezes)

VII. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of His own will, whereby He extends or withholds mercy, as He pleases, for the glory of His sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by; and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of His glorious justice.

Patmos · Apr 29, 2016

VII. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of His own will, whereby He extends or withholds mercy, as He pleases, for the glory of His sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by; and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of His glorious justice

Patmos · Apr 29, 2016

An Honest Question for anyone. I'd appreciate an honest answer:

God, as it says above, before the foundation of the world did all the predestinating and determining.
Were you alive then ?
Did you sin then ?
Are you now reincarnated perhaps ?

Patmos · Apr 29, 2016

So when did you do this sinning "to pass by; and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin" That God was pleased to pass by ?

Or, instead, did you find yourself just born and tarred with this stuff that you could not have done back then cos you never existed back then ?

WCF says you did not sin back then but instead "III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.

Patmos · Apr 29, 2016

So how do you feel, some men ?

How do you feel being unchangably predestined to be the seed sewn on rocky ground.

To grow and flourish.

Believing you are high and mighty elect perhaps.

Hears the word and at once receives it with joy.

Only to fall away - As predestined by God

sdowney717 · Apr 29, 2016

<staff edit>

There will be a time when they come to know the truth, although it may be at the judgement seat.
Words have meaning, God breathed the WORD for our edification so that we may know the TRUTH.
Rather than embrace this glorious truth of our great salvation, they despise this WORD of GOD.

Whom He foreknew, he did also predestine. Those 2 words have absolute definition and meaning as God breathed scripture.
So some hate Paul but all scripture is inspired of God and is profitable for, as stated by the Lord's chosen apostle Paul,
2 Timothy 3:16New King James Version (NKJV)
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

Romans 8 included!
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

That these words are all past tense, proves the immutable nature of our great and fantastic salvation, ordained of our Lord Jesus Christ for His very own elect to be a special possession, holy to the LORD.

2 Peter 2
7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,

“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”

8 and

“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”

They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.

EmSw · Apr 29, 2016

sdowney717 said:
There will be a time when they come to know the truth, although it may be at the judgement seat.
Words have meaning, God breathed the WORD for our edification so that we may know the TRUTH.
Rather than embrace this glorious truth of our great salvation, they despise this WORD of GOD.

Whom He foreknew, he did also predestine. Those 2 words have absolute definition and meaning as God breathed scripture.

Please tell me who our Sovereign God did not foreknow? Marvin says He has always known everything. Do you believe there are those who God did not foreknow?

Calvinism, explained.

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