Calvinism and its Secret Universalism

[John Mullally]

So…is that a yes?

I answered the question in Post #418 of "Did He take the punishment for all humanity?" as a Yes in Posts 417 and 421. And I asserted that position multiple times in other posts on this thread.

 

[Hammster]

I answered the question in Post #418 of "Did He take the punishment for all humanity?" as a Yes in Posts 417 and 421. And I asserted that position multiple times in other posts on this thread.

Okay. So if hell isn’t punishment for sin, what is it for?

 

[John Mullally]

Okay. So if hell isn’t punishment for sin, what is it for?

Show me where I said hell isn't a punishment for sin.

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[BNR32FAN]

Is that what this has turned into…personal attacks?

Please forgive me brother, it wasn’t intended as a personal attack.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Where did it say “sealed” in Hebrews 6?

So you are going to preach “evanescent Holy Spirit”. I was being sarcastic when I called that. I never actually expected you would really resort to it.

 

[Hammster]

Show me where I said hell isn't a punishment for sin.

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Did He take the punishment for sin for all humanity?

I answered the question in Post #418 of "Did He take the punishment for all humanity?" as a Yes in Posts 417 and 421. And I asserted that position multiple times in other posts on this thread.

If Christ bore the sin for all humanity, then hell can’t be a punishment for sin.

 

[Hammster]

So you are going to preach “evanescent Holy Spirit”. I was being sarcastic when I called that. I never actually expected you would really resort to it.

I don’t understand your point.

 

[John Mullally]

If Christ bore the sin for all humanity, then hell can’t be a punishment for sin.

Wrong. I already shared that Hebrews 4:1-3 states that the promises of God are received through faith.

Although it is not God's will that any should perish. Many do and its not because the "all" here only includes a subset of humanity. It is because some do not appropriate Christ's Propitiation through faith. James here states that receiving from God involves the exercise of faith.

James 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.​

 

[Hammster]

Wrong. I already shared with Hebrews 4:1-3 that states that the promises of God are received through faith.

Although it is not God's will that any should perish. Many do and its not because the "all" here only includes a subset of humanity. It is because some do not appropriate Christ's Propitiation through faith. James here states that receiving from God involves the exercise of faith.

James 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.​

You said that Christ bore the punishment for sin. I assume that rejecting Christ is a sin He took the punishment for.

 

[John Mullally]

You said that Christ bore the punishment for sin. I assume that rejecting Christ is a sin He took the punishment for.

Again receiving anything from God requires faith. Show me from the NT where it says anything otherwise. If you reject Christ, you cannot exercise faith to receive Christ's propitiation.

 

[Hammster]

Again receiving anything from God requires faith. Show me from the NT where it says anything otherwise. If you reject Christ, you cannot exercise faith to receive Christ's propitiation.

Is rejecting Christ a sin?

 

[zoidar]

Is rejecting Christ a sin?

I think you see the atonement as court case, when someone steps in and pays your fine you have no saying in it, you are free to go. That is not the way atonement works or faith wouldn't be necessary at all.

 

[Hammster]

I think you see the atonement as court case, when someone steps in and pays your fine you have no saying in it, you are free to go. That is not the way atonement works or faith wouldn't be necessary at all.

Let’s go with that. Let’s say that you owe a huge fine, and someone pays that fine for you. Would the judge be just if he threw you in jail for non-payment?

 

[zoidar]

Let’s go with that. Let’s say that you owe a huge fine, and someone pays that fine for you. Would the judge be just if he threw you in jail for non-payment?

No, but again that is not how atonement works.

 

[Hammster]

No, but again that is not how atonement works.

Okay, why would God not be unjust for punishing someone for sins that His Son paid the penalty for?

 

[zoidar]

Okay, why would God not be unjust for punishing someone for sins that His Son paid the penalty for?

I'm gonna let that question sit for a while, before answering.

 

[John Mullally]

Is rejecting Christ a sin?

Did I say it was not a sin? Avoid asking "Is the sky blue on a clear day?" questions.

 

[Hammster]

I'm gonna let that question sit for a while, before answering.

Fair enough.

 

[Hammster]

Did I say it was not a sin? Avoid asking "Is the sky blue on a clear day?" questions.

Yeah, you seem to be a bit too emotional for me to continue. I’d love to continue, but not with all of the vitriol.

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT

This thread had a small clean up about halfway back of problem posts.

Thanks for staying civil since then.
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