Calvinism and Abortion

[Dave L]

Paul was not referring to all forms of Law (like the commandments of Jesus). If Paul attacked the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness, he would be proud and he would know nothing according to his own statement in 1 Timothy 6:3-4.

So why did Paul appear to speak negatively of the Law sometimes?

Paul was fighting against "Circumcision Salvationism" (Which is Law Alone Salvationism without God's grace); (Note: Circumcision is a part of the 613 Laws of Moses, i.e. the Old Law, and not the New Law).

In fact, a certain sect of Jews were trying to deceive some Christians into thinking they had to first be circumcised in order to be saved. This was a heresy that was clearly addressed at the Jerusalem council (See Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24). Paul also addressed this problem; Paul said to the Galatians that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing (Galatians 5:2), and then Paul mentions how if you seek to be justified by the Law, you have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4). This "law" is the Torah (or the 613 Laws of Moses) because circumcision is not a part of the commands given to us by Jesus and His followers. Yes, certain commands have been repeated by our Lord, but the New Covenant commands (i.e. New Testament commands) are not exactly like those of the Old Testament Law of Moses (the 613). Hebrews 7:12 says that the Law has changed.

You need to keep the law (free will) and grace (purely a gift of salvation, no strings attached) separate.

 

[Sovereign Grace]

One side always uses John 3:16 as their default position and they think we reformed folk have it blotted out of our bibles. They use it to say God loves everybody w/o exception, and “He hates the sin but loves the sinner.” But then there’s this: Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.[1 John 2:15] So, if we use their hermeneutic, if we love everybody w/o exception, God’s love is not in us. But “world” rarely(I can find one verse in John 1:10 where I believe “world” means everybody w/o exception) means everybody w/o exception.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I hold that original sin describes the imputed guilt that we have in Adam (Rom. 5:12) from which the radical corruption of the human nature was conveyed to all his posterity (Rom. 8:7-8). I would agree with you that man "has an inclination to do that which is evil", but would add that it is not merely an inclination; it is an unwavering disposition of all unregenerate sinners whereby they are perpetually and totally committed to sin (Gen. 6:5).

As it pertains to the eternal destiny of the preborn, I maintain that original sin corrupts us from the moment of our conception (Ps. 51:5) and renders us guilty before God. Therefore, preborn children are no less guilty than adults and their salvation must be by grace, not according to an inherent righteousness that they possess. The implication of this is that it does not necessarily follow that all infants must be saved, but that those who are saved, which may still be all if God pleases, are saved by grace alone.

While I am strongly against Calvinism, I believe our Lord is sovereign. I believe God chooses those souls in whom He knew would be faithful to Him to be aborted babies. For God knows the end from the beginning.

As for sin corrupting mankind: Well, I believe there are many verses that suggest that believers are to overcome mortal sin. Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. Romans 13:14 says put on the Lord Jesus Christ and do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. 1 Peter 4:1-2 says that a believer who suffers in the flesh can cease from sin (i.e. mortal sin). In fact, 1 Peter 4:1-2 tells us that we shoud not live the rest of our time to the lusts of the flesh, but to the will of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1 says, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Some Christians believe in the Dual Nature teaching. This is the belief that a believer will always commit mortal sin in their physical body (and they can never stop), but they are saved spiritually because Jesus paid for all the future sin. However, I don't believe this kind of teaching is remotely biblical by any stretch. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). Jesus said that everyone who does not do what He says is like a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27). Acts of the Apostles 3:23 says that any soul who does not hear the prophet (i.e. JESUS) they shall be detroyed.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You need to keep the law (free will) and grace (purely a gift of salvation, no strings attached) separate.

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

As for Paul's reference of the word “law” generically. He was referring to the 613 Laws of Moses and not the commands of Jesus Christ.

 

[Dave L]

While I am strongly against Calvinism, I believe our Lord is sovereign. I believe God chooses those souls in whom He knew would be faithful to Him to be aborted babies. For God knows the end from the beginning.

As for sin corrupting mankind: Well, I believe He there are many verses that suggest that believers are to overcome mortal sin. Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. Romans 13:14 says put on the Lord Jesus Christ and do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. 1 Peter 4:1-2 says that a believer who suffers in the flesh can cease from sin (i.e. mortal sin). In fact, 1 Peter 4:1-2 tells us that we shoud not live the rest of our time to the lusts of the flesh, but to the will of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1 says, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Some Christians believe in the Dual Nature teaching. This is the belief that a believer will always commit mortal sin in their physical body (and they can never stop), but they are saved spiritually because Jesus paid for all the future sin. However, I don't believe this kind of teaching is remotely biblical by any stretch. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). Jesus said that everyone who does not do what He says is like a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27). Acts of the Apostles 3:23 says that any soul who does not hear the prophet (i.e. JESUS) they shall be detroyed.

How can God know anything he did not predestinate?

 

[Dave L]

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

As for Paul's reference of the word “law” generically. He was referring to the 613 Laws of Moses and not the commands of Jesus Christ.

The flesh is all you have to work with before being born again. And nothing in it desires the true Christ.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The flesh is all you have to work with before being born again. And nothing in it desires the true Christ.

So you believe God forces some people to live holy? Do you believe that believers who believe as you do, never slip into sin? If so, what do they do? Do they confess and forsake sin? Is there any point they overcome mortal sin? Or must they sin again? Most Christians I know say that they cannot stop sinning this side of Heaven. Is that what you believe? What about the prodigal son? Was he saved while he was in his sins?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

How can God know anything he did not predestinate?

Your not making any sense. Please explain in more detail.

 

[Dave L]

So you believe God forces some people to live holy? Do you believe that believers who believe as you do, never slip into sin? If so, what do they do? Do they confess and forsake sin? Is there any point they overcome mortal sin? Or must they sin again? Most Christians I know say that they cannot stop sinning this side of Heaven. Is that what you believe?

If you experience the New Birth, it is a love for God and holiness before all else. You will hate sin and love righteousness.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If you experience the New Birth, it is a love for God and holiness before all else. You will hate sin and love righteousness.

That's not really an answer to my questions. It's a vague and evasive answer.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Misses the point of my question. Is every single abortion a specific act of the will of God to condemn each baby to death for their sinfulness?

What sin has anyone committed before they were born?

 

[Dave L]

Your not making any sense. Please explain in more detail.

How can anything exist if God did not create it?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

The wages of sin is death[Romans 6:23]. If babies haven’t sinned, then how do many die in the womb and in infancy?

This is referring to the second death.

 

[Dave L]

That's not really an answer to my questions. It's a vague and evasive answer.

What are you basing your questions on?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

How can anything exist if God did not create it?

Still not getting it. Please do not come off as being mysterious about your beliefs here. Please give me as much as information as possible.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I'm a Calvinist in the first 3 points of Dort. All including infants were judged guilty of sin in Adam. But the longer we live the more wrath we store up. So and early death is better than death in old age where we accumulate more sin to pay for.

But elect infants were justified by Christ's death and go to heaven which is as good as it gets. And miss the perils of life on earth. The same is true if they remain until old age.

I’ll ask you the same question what sin has an unborn infant committed?

 

[Dave L]

Still not getting it. Please stop being evasive with the truth.

How can truth be evasive?

 

[Dave L]

I’ll ask you the same question what sin has an unborn infant committed?

Adam proved his species is corrupt. No need to test the whole bunch individually.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

How can truth be evasive?

I re-edited my post for better clarification. Please hit the refresh button. My point was for YOU to clarify what you meant. Your not doing that. But this is a common tactic among Calvinists.

 

[Sovereign Grace]

This is referring to the second death.

No it isn’t. The wages of sin is death. Just as Romans 5:12ff and 1 Corinthians 15:22 state.