Calvinism and Abortion

Bible Highlighter said:

There is no point in having a discussion if you make mysterious muddy claims and then run away to not explain them when asked to give a proper explanation. I post Scripture to back up my claims. If anyone does not understand the verses I posted, I will make my best effort to explain it for them. But that is where we are different. I just see you as hitting the disagree button and then running away. I don't see how we can have a fruitful discussion involving the Scriptures if that is your tactic.

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My claims are as crisp and clear as the 5 points of Calvinism.

Dave L said:

The problem is we have two different Christ's by definition. One that saves. Another who encourages people to save themselves. It's back to Augustinianism and Pelagianism, condemned as heresy by the Council of Ephesus in 431. Augustinianism = Martin Luther, John Calvin, the entire host of Reformers.....

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Nope, but you keep saying it, maybe at some point you'll really get it. I doubt it though, if your views on divorce are any indication.

Isilwen said:

Nope, but you keep saying it, maybe at some point you'll really get it. I doubt it though, if your views on divorce are any indication.

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The Council of Ephesus condemned your view as heresy. Approved of mine as being what scripture teaches.

Dave L said:

But does repentance save you or does believing save you? You are back under Law if repentance does.

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Jesus said to repent and believe so it's what Jesus said to do. you can try and make it into something that fits your personal belief system if you want but i reckon Jesus had it right. Repent and believe.

Dave L said:

The Council of Ephesus condemned your view as heresy. Approved of mine as being what scripture teaches.

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That doesn't mean they were right. As I said, repeatedly, we won't change our minds.

StillGods said:

Jesus said to repent and believe so it's what Jesus said to do. you can try and make it into something that fits your personal belief system if you want but i reckon Jesus had it right. Repent and believe.

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Can you provide a scripture reference?

Dave L said:

The Council of Ephesus condemned your view as heresy. Approved of mine as being what scripture teaches.

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I wonder if it will be the Council of Ephesus who judge us when we die or if it will be Jesus.

Dave L said:

Can you provide a scripture reference?

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you're kidding right?

StillGods said:

I wonder if it will be the Council of Ephesus who judge us when we die or if it will be Jesus.

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The truth. Any that prefer lies are visited with strong delusions.

StillGods said:

you're kidding right?

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No.

it's the same message all the time everywhere to everyone "Repent and believe" it's pretty consistent. how does a person get saved ? Repent and believe.

Acts 26:20
But declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.

StillGods said:

Acts 26:20
But declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.

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But they cannot repent if they don't believe? Can they? And we are saved by faith, a gift from God.

Dave L said:

The truth. Any that prefer lies are visited with strong delusions.

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it will be Jesus that judges us not the Council of Ephesus Dave, just to clarify.

Dave L said:

But they cannot repent if they don't believe? Can they? And we are saved by faith, a gift from God.

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of course they can.
The gentiles didnt believe but were also told the same thing to repent.

Acts 26:20
But declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.

StillGods said:

of course they can.
The gentiles didnt believe but were also told the same thing to repent.

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They cannot repent from sin if that is all they are. You must be born again to actually repent from sin into the Spirit.

SPF said:

You do realize that the greatest Christian theologians of our history all held to a strong view of God's providence. This would include Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Calvin, Edwards. And more recently Sproul, Piper, and Geisler.

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These Theologians may be great in the eyes of men, but would that be the case with God? For some of these names I recognize on your list, I would say that if they did not (or will not repent) of their false beliefs, I imagine they will not be happy come judgment day. To believe that God forces some to believe and others not to believe is a far cry from the love of God shown in the Bible. We are not talking about one chapter here like Romans 9 that sounds Calvinistic with a shallow quick surface reading (But isn't when you read the context), but we are talking about the distortion of scores of endless verses that are being twisted like a pretzel beyond their plain meaning. We are talking about the burying of one's hand in the sand to basic logic on God's love and or understanding love in general. In fact, I believe Calvinism is as about as silly as believing in a Flat Earth. So that shows how ridiculous I think it is. People blindly believe these unbiblical doctrines of men because that is what their church teaches and that is not what they have come to discover by asking God for the understanding on those verses. Life teaches us that love is not forced. Two souls must willingly love each other of their own free will in order for it to be true love. If the other did not love the other, and they just cast a spell upon the other person, then it is not true love.

If you need a verse that demolishes Calvinism, just read 2 Thessalonians 2:10 again really slowly or do a deep study on it. If you are to believe these words at face value, we learn that the reason why destruction is facing those who perish is because they received not the love of the truth that they MIGHT be saved. The word “might” is in the verse. Also, the reason why they are perishing is not because God elected them to damnation but because THEY received not the love of the truth. So they are to blame for their refusal to accept God.

You said:

But hey, you posted some Scripture that you interpret to refute their thinking. Maybe you should publish your Scriptural interpretations so this "debate" can finally be settled.

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The idea that God predestines certain aborted babies to hell is truly not thinking correctly in their head. I should not need a Bible to tell them that this is wrong just as I should not tell a person who claims to do serial murders today in the name of our Lord is wrong.

But if you need a Bible to tell you that such a concept is wrong, I can.

Luke 18:16-17 says,
“But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.”

Children are of the kingdom of God according to the words of Jesus. Jesus says we need to receive the kingdom of God as a little child, for if we do not do so in this manner, we will not enter therein.

We know that children are more innocent than adult men and they are more open to learning.
Jesus says children are of the kingdom. Calvinists say that this is not always the case because some aborted babies will go to hell by some sick sovereign decree. As if God really will create a life just for the express purpose of torturing that life for all eternity. Such a concept is really sick and wrong.

While the Calvinist may say that some aborted babies may go to Heaven, king David was not in any doubt that his baby who died would be with king David (i.e. in God's favor).

2 Samuel 12:23 says,
“But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.”

David would go to his son when David dies, but his son would not return to him in this earthly life.

Side Note:

I know you appeared to imply that I must make an exhaustive defense on this topic to end all arguments here. But you are not my master. I don't answer to you. So his is not an exhaustive defense on the topic. The two portions of Scripture I have shown should be more than sufficient to hit somebody over the head that needs a Bible to tell them it is wrong that God sends aborted babies to hell. Only those who are cold in heart will say such things.

StillGods said:

it will be Jesus that judges us not the Council of Ephesus Dave, just to clarify.

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Jesus is the truth. Where does this leave you if Calvin or Ephesus was right?

Dave L said:

You think they refute Calvinism because you have only your opinion of what they say to fall back on.

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Why don't you prove it by explaining the verses and by backing up your interpretation with the context for a change.

Dave L said:

They cannot repent from sin if that is all they are. You must be born again to actually repent from sin into the Spirit.

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Jesus says to Repent and believe He didnt say be Born again and repent.

Dave L said:

Jesus is the truth. Where does this leave you if Calvin or Ephesus was right?

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I dont follow Calvin or Ephesus, I follow Jesus (as best I can) so I'm with Jesus I'll be fine. you can trust in calvin or ephesus if you want to though that is your choice.

StillGods said:

Jesus says to Repent and believe He didnt say be Born again and repent.


I dont follow Calvin or Ephesus, I follow Jesus (as best I can) so I'm with Jesus I'll be fine. you can trust in calvin or ephesus if you want to though that is your choice.

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Only the born again can desire to repent. The rest love sin too much.