Calvin quote

[Dave L]

How do you know: everything Calvin wrote aligns with scripture and even if it did why not go back to what he was trying to align with and skip Calvin?

I found that Calvin aligns with much in the way of sin and grace. But is stuck with the Catholics in other teachings.

 

[Hammster]

How do you know: everything Calvin wrote aligns with scripture and even if it did why not go back to what he was trying to align with and skip Calvin?

Again, why are you posting if what you say is true?

 

[renniks]

But you recite a creed every time you draw a conclusion about what it says. Why not listen to the better informed instead?

What makes you think Calvin was better informed? The man had some glaring faults that would not inspire trust in his writings.

 

[renniks]

Good Day, Renniks

Glad you asked:

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.


We have established, that the pronoun “you” always in this context refers to (beloved) believers. The any (pronoun), and the all (adj) refer to and modify the you in the text.

We see that in John 3:16

YLT - for God did so love the world, that His Son—the only begotten—He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

The ones doing the verb believing in him, not perishing. The not perishing is limited to doing "believing".

So how does that couple with repentance?

God though out time will be patient to ensure all believers (gifted faith from God) current and future, are granted the gift of repentance for the explicit purpose of leading them to the knowledge of the truth, ( you can not believe truth you do not know), bring them to their senses and allow them to escape the snare of the devil because they have been captured by him, and need the ability to escape.


Ti 2:24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.


The wonderful purpose and plan of God to by his grace give gifts that by design set the captive free, and effectively with purpose show us the truth with out fail.




In Him,


Bill

The trouble with your whole claim here is that is only works if one believes in limited atonement and election. Otherwise, the " you" can be referring to whosever reads the words. Since I believe the whosevers in scripture mean just that, I can't interpret it your way.

 

[Hammster]

The trouble with your whole claim here is that is only works if one believes in limited atonement and election. Otherwise, the " you" can be referring to whosever reads the words. Since I believe the whosevers in scripture mean just that, I can't interpret it your way.

Proper hermeneutics would dictate that since it was written to the church, it applies to the church.

 

[Dave L]

What makes you think Calvin was better informed? The man had some glaring faults that would not inspire trust in his writings.

Who doesn't have faults, especially at his level of involvement?

 

[BBAS 64]

The trouble with your whole claim here is that is only works if one believes in limited atonement and election. Otherwise, the " you" can be referring to whosever reads the words.

Good Day, Renniks


Well seeing that the text of 2 peter does not the word "whosoever", nor the Greek construction that is some times translated as whosoever... the pronoun you grammatically can not be referring to it, no matter how much you think it might.

Since I believe the whosevers in scripture mean just that, I can't interpret it your way.

Um OK I guess, but you have yet to provide any evidence that you have a correct understanding of what the word means, I can understand why you would have a problem interpreting it in any case.

In Him,

Bill

 

[GenemZ]

Yes I believe God is eternally Sovereign.

OK... That does not explain anything other than God always does as He wishes.

The question is? What is it that He wishes? To create men, and over ride men's wills?

God created man in His image.
Therefore man was given his own area of sovereignty if that is true.
Where was man made to be sovereign?

 

[Yesha]

“he arranges all things by his sovereign counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction.”

Calvin’s Institutes, Book 3 Chapter 23 paragraph 6.

Assuming that the doctrine of Open Theism is false (which we must do in this forum), is this a true or false statement, and why?

This is a hard saying to come to terms with but is indeed consistent with the teaching of the Scripture.

Romans 9:19-24 (ESV)

19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?​

The doctrine of reprobation was acknowledged by the Westminster Divines.

Westminster Confession of Faith - 3.7

The rest of mankind, God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will, whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy as he pleaseth, for the glory of his sovereign power over his creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonour and wrath for their sin, to the praise of his glorious justice.​

 

[renniks]

Proper hermeneutics would dictate that since it was written to the church, it applies to the church.

Ok, then everything my pastor says to the congregation, even if it's a general statement about people, only applies to those listening?

 

[Hammster]

Ok, then everything my pastor says to the congregation, even if it's a general statement about people, only applies to those listening?

I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion.

 

[Hammster]

Where do I say he has no authority? I didn't. You are twisting what I said.

Okay, then what will be different between the Garden and Heaven?

Still waiting.

 

[redleghunter]

The question is? What is it that He wishes? To create men, and over ride men's wills?

Is that how you read the Bible?

God created man in His image.
Therefore man was given his own area of sovereignty if that is true.
Where was man made to be sovereign?

Didn’t Adam and Eve fail at that?

 

[GenemZ]

Is that how you read the Bible?

Whatever the LORD pleases, He does,
In heaven and in earth,
in the seas and in all deeps." Ps 135:6​

Our God is in heaven; he does
whatever pleases him." Ps 115:3

Yes, that's how I read it. You don't?

Didn’t Adam and Eve fail at that?

If anything? It proves God made man with his own area of sovereignty. For Adam and the woman chose not to do God's will. Thus, proving, God does not make man make his choices.

 

[renniks]

Um OK I guess, but you have yet to provide any evidence that you have a correct understanding of what the word means, I can understand why you would have a problem interpreting it in any case.

Same old high horse all y'all like to ride, I see.
A plain reading of this verse would suggest that God doesn’t desire for Hell to contain a single human being, but for every human being to come into a saving relationship with Him.
But if you choose to believe: John Calvin, who wrote that “[God] arranges all things by his sovereign council, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction.” then of course you are going to have to see it another way.

But does the context of 2 Peter 3:9 really restrict “any” and “all” to less than mankind?

Yes, Peter is writing to “the beloved”, to elect individuals in a specific church. Yes, Peter contrasts non-elect “scoffers” with “they” and refers to his readers as “you”. But how does this show that verse 9 refers to all of the elect rather than all mankind?

There’s no reason to think that just because Peter is writing to the elect, that, therefore, he’s talking only about the elect.

Peter compares the second coming with the days of Noah. Noah’s era is used analogously to Peter’s era. The theme of using the Noah’s Ark narrative was to demonstrate the longsuffering of God. Are we to think that God was only waiting in Noah’s day solely for the purpose of saving his family? Noah and his family were right with God loooong before the ark was built. God was demonstrating well-meant patience toward all sinners at that time.

So,why think the longsuffering in Peter’s Day and in ours is only for the sake of the elect?

Moreover,”all” is in the immediate context of “they.” Further, the warning of the passage is clearly intended for the “yous” – in other words, in this context, you cannot, as this interpretation attempts to do, separate the warnings from the Lord’s patience or the “us” from the “thems.”

 

[renniks]

Y

Who doesn't have faults, especially at his level of involvement?

Yes, most pastors would agree to thier rivels assassin. I see what you mean.

 

[redleghunter]

Whatever the LORD pleases, He does,
In heaven and in earth,
in the seas and in all deeps." Ps 135:6​

Our God is in heaven; he does
whatever pleases him." Ps 115:3

Yes, that's how I read it. You don't?




If anything? It proves God made man with his own area of sovereignty. For Adam and the woman chose not to do God's will. Thus, proving, God does not make man make his choices.

I believe you have misunderstood what I was asking.

 

[bling]

Again, why are you posting if what you say is true?

I am given the privilege and honor of allowing the Spirit to work through me to teach other. Like Christ I try to answer questions with questions.

 

[Hammster]

Whatever the LORD pleases, He does,
In heaven and in earth,
in the seas and in all deeps." Ps 135:6​

Our God is in heaven; he does
whatever pleases him." Ps 115:3

Yes, that's how I read it. You don't?




If anything? It proves God made man with his own area of sovereignty. For Adam and the woman chose not to do God's will. Thus, proving, God does not make man make his choices.

So then God must have had a reason for them to fall.

 

[BBAS 64]

Same old high horse all y'all like to ride, I see.
A plain reading of this verse would suggest that God doesn’t desire for Hell to contain a single human being, but for every human being to come into a saving relationship with Him.
But if you choose to believe: John Calvin, who wrote that “[God] arranges all things by his sovereign council, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction.” then of course you are going to have to see it another way.

But does the context of 2 Peter 3:9 really restrict “any” and “all” to less than mankind?

Yes, Peter is writing to “the beloved”, to elect individuals in a specific church. Yes, Peter contrasts non-elect “scoffers” with “they” and refers to his readers as “you”. But how does this show that verse 9 refers to all of the elect rather than all mankind?

There’s no reason to think that just because Peter is writing to the elect, that, therefore, he’s talking only about the elect.

Peter compares the second coming with the days of Noah. Noah’s era is used analogously to Peter’s era. The theme of using the Noah’s Ark narrative was to demonstrate the longsuffering of God. Are we to think that God was only waiting in Noah’s day solely for the purpose of saving his family? Noah and his family were right with God loooong before the ark was built. God was demonstrating well-meant patience toward all sinners at that time.

So,why think the longsuffering in Peter’s Day and in ours is only for the sake of the elect?

Moreover,”all” is in the immediate context of “they.” Further, the warning of the passage is clearly intended for the “yous” – in other words, in this context, you cannot, as this interpretation attempts to do, separate the warnings from the Lord’s patience or the “us” from the “thems.”

Good Day,

I never ever said anything about the elect...

The context on 2 Peter 3:9 and the grammar does not all the application of the any (pronoun) and all (adj) to be to refer to or modify "mankind" because the is no noun in the text for mankind.

I know you wish it were but it is not in the text.

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.


We have established, that the pronoun “you” always in this context refers to (beloved) believers. The any (pronoun), and the all (adj) refer to and modify the you in the text.



IN Him,


Bill