Calvin quote

[Hammster]

This ain't supposed to be heaven.
It's a testing ground, not the final destination.

But how will we not sin in heaven?

 

[Hammster]

I am given the privilege and honor of allowing the Spirit to work through me to teach other. Like Christ I try to answer questions with questions.

Ah. You want others to read what you wrote, but you won’t read what others have written. Why is it that you find your writings better?

 

[bling]

Ah. You want others to read what you wrote, but you won’t read what others have written. Why is it that you find your writings better?

I have read I think most of the posts on this tread, but that is because I can discuss what they have said and thus we can learn together. One of the problems I have with dead writers is the fact when I question their conclusion because they do not show looking at other alternatives or scripture that may apply, they cannot answer me. It is like trying to study with a dead person.

 

[Hammster]

I have read I think most of the posts on this tread, but that is because I can discuss what they have said and thus we can learn together. One of the problems I have with dead writers is the fact when I question their conclusion because they do not show looking at other alternatives or scripture that may apply, they cannot answer me. It is like trying to study with a dead person.

Fair enough. But you still lose out by not reading. Just my opinion.

 

[GenemZ]

So then God must have had a reason for them to fall.

Perfectly! He needed living examples that would act out the sinful impulses that Lucifer and his angels were never permitted to act upon. Nor, could the angels understand the implications of their mere thoughts. Here is one example:

You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.
I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.” (Isa 14:13-14​

What was it that Lucifer desired in his heart towards the Lord? Could he understand his own desire? How could he?

How could Lucifer do so? There was nothing yet in existence to relate to in regards to what he desired. For God create the kingdom perfect. No sin. No death.

For, in his heart, Lucifer desired to assassinate (murder) the Lord and take over the throne. After all.. Jesus said, if we simply lust in our heart for a woman? In God's eyes, we have committed adultery.

To God, men's thoughts hold real power and substance! For in the future (for only those who reach maturity and are qualified) eternal men's thoughts will produce realities. God knows this. That is why God judges the thoughts and intents of our hearts now.


So? How could Lucifer understand what he was judged for by God? It was for what he thought in his heart. Not yet to be understood, because, death and murder never existed for the angels to see.

In order to teach the angels about this reality? Could God produce examples for the angels to learn from? No! For, God can not create sin.

Therefore God could not create man fallen in a state. A fallen state that would have manifestations of evil desire having a visible outcome for the angels to learn from.

Its why Jesus said that Satan was a murdered from the beginning! For in his heart? Satan murdered the Lord in his desire to take over the throne!

So, God allowed for the fall.. Once men fell? The Lord chuckled... and wanted to thank Satan for providing God with the very teaching tool that will be Satan's downfall.

Satan had thought he won when Adam and Eve fell. But, in doing so? Satan actually locked up his sentence and execution by providing God with what God could not have created, but was able to allow for happening to man. To show why the Lord's sentence of Lucifer and his angels is just and righteous!

Before fallen sinful man's example could be seen and studied by angels? Lucifer and his angels could keep saying they did no wrong. For no one knew his thoughts but God. But, God is knowing their evil thoughts, and its implications? It had to expose them for all to see, and with understood condemnation by angels, be put to an end.The Lake of Fire.

grace and peace........... !

 

[Hammster]

Perfectly! He needed living examples that would act out the sinful impulses that Lucifer and his angels were never permitted to act upon. Nor, could the angels understand the implications of their mere thoughts. Here is one example:

You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.
I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.” (Isa 14:13-14​

What was it that Lucifer desired in his heart towards the Lord? Could he understand his own desire? How could he?

How could Lucifer do so? There was nothing yet in existence to relate to in regards to what he desired. For God create the kingdom perfect. No sin. No death.

For, in his heart, Lucifer desired to assassinate (murder) the Lord and take over the throne. After all.. Jesus said, if we simply lust in our heart for a woman? In God's eyes, we have committed adultery.

To God, men's thoughts hold real power and substance! For in the future (for only those who reach maturity and are qualified) eternal men's thoughts will produce realities. God knows this. That is why God judges the thoughts and intents of our hearts now.


So? How could Lucifer understand what he was judged for by God? It was for what he thought in his heart. Not yet to be understood, because, death and murder never existed for the angels to see.

In order to teach the angels about this reality? Could God produce examples for the angels to learn from? No! For, God can not create sin.

Therefore God could not create man fallen in a state. A fallen state that would have manifestations of evil desire having a visible outcome for the angels to learn from.

Its why Jesus said that Satan was a murdered from the beginning! For in his heart? Satan murdered the Lord in his desire to take over the throne!

So, God allowed for the fall.. Once men fell? The Lord chuckled... and wanted to thank Satan for providing God with the very teaching tool that will be Satan's downfall.

Satan had thought he won when Adam and Eve fell. But, in doing so? Satan actually locked up his sentence and execution by providing God with what God could not have created, but was able to allow for happening to man. To show why the Lord's sentence of Lucifer and his angels is just and righteous!

Before fallen sinful man's example could be seen and studied by angels? Lucifer and his angels could keep saying they did no wrong. For no one knew his thoughts but God. But, God is knowing their evil thoughts, and its implications? It had to expose them for all to see, and with understood condemnation by angels, be put to an end.The Lake of Fire.

grace and peace........... !

That is one crazy story.

 

[bling]

Fair enough. But you still lose out by not reading. Just my opinion.

What would you have me read that you consider better than reading scripture?

 

[Hammster]

What would you have me read that you consider better than reading scripture?

Better? Nothing. And I don’t think anyone has suggested such a thing.

 

[GenemZ]

That is one crazy story.

Well? Tell me how it might not be truth? That would be helpful if you could.

 

[renniks]

But how will we not sin in heaven?

How would I know? We are not given that much information. We know we will have a different sort of body and we will no longer see through a glass darkly, so if I were to speculate, I believe we will be fundamentally different on a soul level. Besides, what is going to tempt us in a perfect world? Eden had at least one flaw..

 

[GenemZ]

But how will we not sin in heaven?

Once you are in your glorious resurrection body you will know perfectly why.

Why should glorious Divine contentment ever want to sin?

 

[Hammster]

Well? Tell me how it might not be truth? That would be helpful if you could.

Easy. There’s nothing scriptural about it. It’s a fanciful story.

 

[Hammster]

How would I know? We are not given that much information. We know we will have a different sort of body and we will no longer see through a glass darkly, so if I were to speculate, I believe we will be fundamentally different on a soul level. Besides, what is going to tempt us in a perfect world? Eden had at least one flaw..

You mean where God let Satan tempt Eve? That flaw? Or the one where He even made a law? Which flaw are you referring to?

 

[GenemZ]

You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.
I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.” (Isa 14:13-14


What was it that Lucifer desired in his heart towards the Lord?

Could he understand his own desire? How could he?

How could Lucifer do so? There was nothing yet in existence to relate to in regards to what he desired. For God create the kingdom perfect. No sin. No death.

For, in his heart, Lucifer desired to assassinate (murder) the Lord and take over the throne. After all.. Jesus said, if we simply lust in our heart for a woman? In God's eyes, we have committed adultery.

To God, men's thoughts hold real power and substance! For in the future (for only those who reach maturity and are qualified) eternal men's thoughts will produce realities. God knows this. That is why God judges the thoughts and intents of our hearts now.


So? How could Lucifer understand what he was judged for by God? It was for what he thought in his heart. Not yet to be understood, because, death and murder never existed for the angels to see.

In order to teach the angels about this reality? Could God produce examples for the angels to learn from? No! For, God can not create sin.

So how was God to show angels what murder is so they can understand why God's judgment was so severe against Lucifer and his angels?

..................

 

[GenemZ]

Easy. There’s nothing scriptural about it. It’s a fanciful story.

Ignorance of the Scriptures is the root of all error. J. C. Ryle

 

[Hammster]

Ignorance of the Scriptures is the root of all error. J. C. Ryle

That would certainly be a possible reason for your understanding.

 

[GenemZ]

That would certainly be a possible reason for your understanding.

You offer nothing but unsubstantiated, blanket statements of dismissal.

I offer correlation to be found in, and from, God's Word.

I will continue to do so.

 

[GenemZ]

Easy. There’s nothing scriptural about it. It’s a fanciful story.

How can you say that there is nothing Scriptural when there most definitely is.

Ask some questions about what I said, and find out how. Ask, please. For without asking I do not know where it is you lack Scriptural reference, so that I may supply, to show you what you may not yet know.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Good Day, GKG

That depends how you define "free-will".. How does he know?

He the work of the cross would be worthwhile because he declared it to be so, therefore it is.

God persuades for what purpose?
What is the mean of His persuasion?
How effective is He in that effort?


In Him,

Bill

God allows us to make our own choices, always making a way for us to act rightly. God holds all things together. Jesus Christ is the Father of eternity, He created time. His wisdom is infinite and He puts His hand in time and space... Wisdom includes foresight. He is the Spirit of prophecy. From outside time He can see all points, including the last day.

He declares and time exists. He declares, puts in His hand and guides and supplies people like King David.

The cross is said to draw all men unto Himself. The cross itself persuades when explained, the love, the narrative climax...

Jesus' blood applied to souls like those in current day Africa moves their hearts to repent and receive Christ, by the millions, a blood washed Africa. CFAN's success. The healings matter too.

God doesn't choose to override our free will into repentance by and after or in a declaration.

God persuades us to friendship and to have more company than just the tree.
A love relationship by free choice, no robot moments.

Persuasion means God moves us through words and sights and promises and seeing them realized, through the work of holy angels, the power of His blood, gentle blood. The message of the cross, the love of God, the price He paid. Love, awe, wisdom, power all found faith and obedience. There is something about Jesus' blood and living water. The latter refreshes, and enlivens praise and joy. A person can refuse it foolishly.

He makes sure all those who He foreknew would respond are chosen.

 

[Neogaia777]

Jesus Christ is the Father of eternity,

John 14:28- "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto (where) the Father (is, always was): for my Father is greater than I.

John 10:29- "My Father, which gave them to me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

And you would do well to read all of John, or all of John 14 at the very least...

Then where Jesus spoke of the Holy Spirit, He was speaking of God the Spirit, or God in and of the OT...

Your clearly confused and have had your religious blinders on for far too long...

And if you want a better, deeper explanation then see these posts here by me (below) starting with this one (below) and about four or five following that one...

God's Decree

And even those are "just scratching the surface" but contain enough truth for you to "get it" if you really want to...

Most do not want to though, some of the many reasons being just being lightly and slightly touched on in them (those posts)...

And really, read all of John 14 at the very least, OK, cause I'm not going to quote the whole thing here, OK...

God Bless!