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Calvary chapel

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Oblio

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CC radio also has regular appearances by Dave Hunt. Raul Reis of CC is also another with definite anti-Catholic* tendencies.


I agree with the Nestorian charge against Laurie too. I recall on one of his Truth about Mary shows when he actually said that Mary only gave birth to the human part of Jesus . :eek:

* By anti-Catholic I mean they bear false witness to Catholic faith and practice. On occasion they do this WRT to Orthodoxy (esp. Skip Hietzig who claims to be ex Orthodox), though we are not on their radar screen (yet).
 
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Lotar

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Isaiah 53 said:
I have never seen it done once...honestly!

PEACE IN CHRIST!!!
I have. I'm probably one of the few Protestants that watches that channel ;)


CC radio also has regular appearances by Dave Hunt. Raul Reis of CC is also another with definite anti-Catholic* tendencies.

* By anti-Catholic I mean they bear false witness to Catholic faith and practice. On occasion they do this WRT to Orthodoxy (esp. Skip Hietzig who claims to be ex Orthodox), though we are not on their radar screen (yet).
All we get here is KWAVE, is that the same? I never listen to it anyways.


I agree with the Nestorian charge against Laurie too. I recall on one of his Truth about Mary shows when he actually said that Mary only gave birth to the human part of Jesus . :eek:
Yep. I'm suprised that it hasn't shown up on the heresy-hunter sites yet. I'll probably have to add it to my own ;)
 
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LuxPerpetua

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I watch EWTN, too, Lotar! Any time things get too anti-Protestant or anti-Orthodox I turn the channel, just as I would if I heard a Protestant minister demeaning Catholics. IMO, it is NEVER okay to be hurtful to anyone who loves our Lord (not that any of us is ever perfect in this regard--I myself often fail miserably).
 
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Protoevangel

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Lotar said:
I have. I'm probably one of the few Protestants that watches that channel ;)
I would watch it if I got it. Unfortunately, in my area, you can get Trinity Broadcasting on basic cable (that's where I've seen Laurie), but to get EWTN, you have to pay for digital cable or satellite. :scratch: I do watch their live feed on the Internet sometimes.
 
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Greeter

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Isaiah 53 said:
I have never seen it done once...honestly!

PEACE IN CHRIST!!!
I just saw it done the other day. As far as EWTN reaches, an anti-Protestant statement only needs to be done once and it will create a huge backlash of anti-Catholic statements in return.

I don't think we as Catholics can complain all that much about anti-Catholicism when anti-Protestantism still exists among us.

While I am now reunited with the Catholic Church, I am still very impressed with Calvary Chapel, especially Calvary Chapel Ft. Lauderdale. I think many Catholic Churchs could learn a lot from watching successful Calvary Chapels and vice versa.
 
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LuxPerpetua

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Greeter said:
I don't think we as Catholics can complain all that much about anti-Catholicism when anti-Protestantism still exists among us.


And the same goes for anti-Catholic sentiments among Protestants . . . we could ALL use some time in the mirror removing those planks ;)
 
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PaladinValer

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happyinhisgrace said:
Kakadu, I attend Calvary Chapel and find them to be very Biblically based. I very much enjoy the sermons at Calvary Chapel and to this point, have not heard any unbiblical teaching. I am an exmormon so I am very careful now to take what I hear in church and then read it in the word of God for myself to make sure that the teaching lines up with the Bible.

Calvary Chapel teaches the doctrine of literalism, that the Bible says what it means more-or-less. This, IMO, is an extremely dangerous belief; it is illogical (circular reasoning) and it ignores the rich metaphore, hyperbole, and symbolism that the Bible contains. It also ignores centuries-old accurate understanding and interpretations as well, a part of the Christian heritage.

happyinhisgrace said:
HI, I have to tell you that the things you described above are NOTHING at all what my experiences have been with the Calvary Chapel. This is why it is so important to talk to the pastor of a church first and find out exactly what His personal beliefs are about the nature of God, the Bible, baptism, communion, ect.

I find it curious you capitalize "his" when you are speaking about your pastor. From my research, I've learned that Calvary Chapel is extremely emotionally-driven, which, IMO, isn't very healthy. A lot of this emotionally-driven feavor comes from the direction of the pastor with the sermon. Despite the fact that they have no seminary training and their core beliefs must agree with those of the denomination's founder, the people just nod and agree I've noticed. The pastors have no training in the languages either and its a KJVO church. I personally find this very, very scary.

happyinhisgrace said:
As far as the founders "colorful past"...can you tell me what you mean by that? The only "color" I know of in His past is that He used to be totally charismatic but felt that there was to much focus on demon casting and "excitement" during service and He felt that there should be more "meat" (word of God) in the services.

By "colorful," I mean "colorful." I don't want to say anything more than may violate CF rules.

happyinhisgrace said:
As far as Jesus's divinity, it is more important than His humanity because He was fully God and fully man.

That is self-contradictory and extremely heterodox. Jesus is equally God and equally Man. Equally Divine and equally human. His humanity is just as important as his Divinity and visa versa. He wasn't an illusion, He didn't give up any of His divinity, and He wasn't any less a human. Without an complete and equal balance, Jesus could not have been the Savior. Please reread the Creed of St. Athanasius.

happyinhisgrace said:
Also one thing I should point out is that the pastor at our church is always speaking against false teachings and false prophets is constantly encourages us to become emmersed in the Word of God so we will recognize false preachers, teacher and prophets when we see or hear them.

Like chiliasm? Nestorianism? Montanism? Christological heresies? How do they know what is heresy without knowing the history and truth of early Christianity? Of the Early Church? Of the ancient Creeds? Of the the Ecumenical Councils? All this is a part of orthodox, traditional Christianity.

happyinhisgrace said:
One thing I forgot to mention is that my pastor did attend Bible school for 2 years I believe. He told a friend of mine that also attends CC where it was but honestly, I dont remember now.

Bible colleges and schools are not the same as seminaries.

Lotar said:
A few Calvary Chapel pastors attended "bible school," but very very few have attended any kind of seminary. My sister goes to the Calvary Chapel Bible School and is graduating this year. I have to say, from what I've seen of it, it is no replacement for seminary. It's more like brainwash camp for highschool graduates.

I must agree whole-heartedly.

Lotar said:
At first I thought it was just a little over zealousness in trying to prove Catholics wrong. But it goes beyond the whole, "Mary is not the Mother of God" thing. Now that such comments had caught my attention, I see that they clearly divide Christ's two natures. For example, like Greg Laurie's comment the other week on the Passion, when Christ was suffering, "and this was His human self doing this, not Him as God..." My mouth just dropped open when I heard him say that.

My friends who invited me are utter iconoclasts (another heresy; see the Seventh Ecumenical Council) because of Calvary Chapel. They've basically been taught that Catholics worship Mary and the Saints, etc. And from my own experiences, research, and from what I've heard from you, I'm becoming more and more worried about this church.

Again, I want to say that there may be some Calvary Chapel churches that are different from what I, Lotar, and others have described. My worries aren't of them but of the rest (most even?) of the denomination (and yes, it is a denomination; its considered to be a non-denominational charismatic renewal church). I just find it very frightening the more I learn.

**decides this will be his last post since this is becoming a little too hot of a topic for him**
 
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happyinhisgrace

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PaladinValer said:
Calvary Chapel teaches the doctrine of literalism, that the Bible says what it means more-or-less. This, IMO, is an extremely dangerous belief; it is illogical (circular reasoning) and it ignores the rich metaphore, hyperbole, and symbolism that the Bible contains. It also ignores centuries-old accurate understanding and interpretations as well, a part of the Christian heritage.

This hasn't been my experience at the Calvary Chapel I attend, like i said, maybe I just lucked out and ended up with a fabulous Bible believing pastor who actually knows what He is teaching from the Word of God.



I find it curious you capitalize "his" when you are speaking about your pastor.

Don't find it interesting. I have very poor grammer and typing skills, I have gone back and re-read some of my posts on CF and I noticed that I didn't capotilize "his" when speaking of our Lord and sometimes I did. I also have noticed my terrible spelling and misuse of puncuation. It really doesn't mean anything in regards to my feelings of my pastor or anyone else, it is just poor grammor usage on my part.


From my research, I've learned that Calvary Chapel is extremely emotionally-driven, which, IMO, isn't very healthy.

I wouldn't doubt that some of the CC's are this way. Like I said, not my experience at the one I attend.


A lot of this emotionally-driven feavor comes from the direction of the pastor with the sermon. Despite the fact that they have no seminary training and their core beliefs must agree with those of the denomination's founder, the people just nod and agree I've noticed. The pastors have no training in the languages either and its a KJVO church. I personally find this very, very scary.

What leads you to believe that all CC minister have no training in languages? Mine is very knowlegable in Greek....I don't know about Hebrew though.



By "colorful," I mean "colorful." I don't want to say anything more than may violate CF rules.



That is self-contradictory and extremely heterodox. Jesus is equally God and equally Man. Equally Divine and equally human. His humanity is just as important as his Divinity and visa versa. He wasn't an illusion, He didn't give up any of His divinity, and He wasn't any less a human. Without an complete and equal balance, Jesus could not have been the Savior. Please reread the Creed of St. Athanasius.

Perhaps I did not state what I meant very well. I agree with everything you have said above. What I was trying to say is that for Jesus to have paid the price for our sin, he had to be God also, he could not have done it if he was just sinnful man but He was both God and man without sin and he did pay the price for our sins as God and man.



Like chiliasm? Nestorianism? Montanism? Christological heresies? How do they know what is heresy without knowing the history and truth of early Christianity? Of the Early Church? Of the ancient Creeds? Of the the Ecumenical Councils? All this is a part of orthodox, traditional Christianity.

Things which my pastor has discussed in sermons and is in agreement with.

The main things that I have noticed when He talks of false teachings is that he really warns against people believing in the oneness beliefs, like the oneness penticostals teach and warns against the teachins that man can become gods or earn their own salvation by works. He has also taught against the teachings of the "name it an claim it" and "the faith healer" groups. He is big on the belief that when we are in Christ and we sin, the Holy Spirit will convict us of sin and we will have a full desire to please God and leave that sin behind and follow the will of God. He in no way promotes or condones staying in sin or the "once saved, always saved" beliefs that many people have.



Bible colleges and schools are not the same as seminaries.

I realize this but what I am telling you is that I always study FOR MYSELF, what the pastor says in sermon, always. I have not to this point found ANTHING he has taught to go against the Word of God. He knows his stuff. Now, if in my personal studies, I were to notice something that did go against the word of God, I would not only pray about it but I would personally go to the pastor, talk to him about it and if I did understand correctly what he said and he was in error, I would call him on it, if he did not openly acknowlege and correct the error, I would leave that church. That is the truth. My salvation is in Christ, not a church....I go to church to worship, fellowship with other believers and to hear the Word of God and find stregnth to apply it to my life. If I am attending a church that starts to teach contrary to the Word of God, there is no reason for me to stay there, but every reason for me to leave.



I must agree whole-heartedly.



My friends who invited me are utter iconoclasts (another heresy; see the Seventh Ecumenical Council) because of Calvary Chapel. They've basically been taught that Catholics worship Mary and the Saints, etc. And from my own experiences, research, and from what I've heard from you, I'm becoming more and more worried about this church.

I do not believe that Catholics worship mary nor the saints. It might suprise you to know that I also attend Anglican services and find great peace and joy in the traditions of the church :)

Again, I want to say that there may be some Calvary Chapel churches that are different from what I, Lotar, and others have described. My worries aren't of them but of the rest (most even?) of the denomination (and yes, it is a denomination; its considered to be a non-denominational charismatic renewal church). I just find it very frightening the more I learn.

Well, like I said, maybe I am just blessed to attend the CC chapel that I do and maybe ours is different than the other CC's. I really don't know.

**decides this will be his last post since this is becoming a little too hot of a topic for him**
I have appreciated your comments, really I have. I do appreciate you discussing this with me.

God Bless,
Grace
 
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Oblio

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He in no way promotes or condones staying in sin or the "once saved, always saved" beliefs that many people have.

Does CC have a definitive position on OSAS/OSNAS ? Just last night on CSN, Justin Alfred was espousing OSAS to a listener that was unsure of their Salvation.
 
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PaladinValer

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Chuck Punk, then how come so much authority is pulled by its founder? And about Lotar's and others' concerns of many of its pastors preaching heresy?

True, no denomination or church is perfect, but IMO, Calvary Chapel has some issues it must face.
 
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