California's gradeschool gender identity laws in effect

[NightHawkeye]

And that success rate is higher than just about any success rate you can find for "mental health issues" (since you so desperately want to claim this is a mental health issue).

NAMI claims relatively high success across the board: http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Se...Management/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=44613

Treatment outcomes for people with even the most serious mental illnesses are comparable to outcomes for well-established general medical or surgical treatments for other chronic diseases. The early treatment success rates for mental illnesses are 60-80 percent, well above the approximately 40 to 60 percent success rates for common surgical treatments for heart disease.
​

Not that their numbers are necessarily believable, either.

 

[Maren]

NAMI claims relatively high success across the board: http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Se...Management/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=44613

Treatment outcomes for people with even the most serious mental illnesses are comparable to outcomes for well-established general medical or surgical treatments for other chronic diseases. The early treatment success rates for mental illnesses are 60-80 percent, well above the approximately 40 to 60 percent success rates for common surgical treatments for heart disease.
​

Not that their numbers are necessarily believable, either.

Notice they say "early treatment" rates; their rates go down significantly if the disease is not caught early. I imagine that if we looked at the equivalent "early treatment" heart disease rates (or other comparable treatment numbers), NAMI's comparison wouldn't work. And even comparing the "all treated cases" vs. NAMI's "early treatment" rates, the over 80% treatment rate is still higher than a 60-80% "early treatment" rate.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Notice they say "early treatment" rates; their rates go down significantly if the disease is not caught early. I imagine that if we looked at the equivalent "early treatment" heart disease rates (or other comparable treatment numbers), NAMI's comparison wouldn't work. And even comparing the "all treated cases" vs. NAMI's "early treatment" rates, the over 80% treatment rate is still higher than a 60-80% "early treatment" rate.

Your source for 85% success?

 

[Maren]

Your source for 85% success?

To be clear, I stated over 80%. Here are a few sources:

Lobato, Maria Ines Ines et al. “Follow-Up of Sex Reassignment Surgery in Transsexuals: A Brazilian Cohort” Arch Sex Behav 35 (2006): 711–715

Cuypere, Griet De et al. “Sexual and Physical Health After Sex Reassignment Surgery” Archives of Sexual Behavior 34.6 (December, 2005): 679–690

Smith, Yolanda L.S. et al. “Adolescents With Gender Identity Disorder Who Were Accepted or Rejected for Sex Reassignment Surgery: A Prospective Follow-up Study” J. Am. Acad. Child Adolesc. Psychiatry 40:4 (April, 2001): 472-481

Michel, A. et al. “The transsexual: what about the future?” Eur. Psychiatry 17 (2002): 353-362

Bazarra-Castro, Maria Angeles (2009). Etiological Aspects, Therapy Regimes, Side Effects and Treatment Satisfaction of Transsexual Patients. Dissertation. Aus dem Max Planck Institut für Psychiatrie, Klinisches Institut, München. Director: Prof. Dr. Dr. Florian Holsboer

 

[wintermile]

Again, if you bothered to read the links, you would find that the brains of transsexuals are not deformed, they merely are normal brains but normal for the opposite gender.

Just to be clear, transsexuals that are not treated have an extremely high suicide rate, over 40%. By contrast, those who undergo our current treatment for male to female transsexuals have around an 82% success rate. And that success rate is higher than just about any success rate you can find for "mental health issues" (since you so desperately want to claim this is a mental health issue).

But since you know better, how would you treat these people? Please realize that mental health professionals looked for decades at non-surgical treatments; yet those treatments merely caused depression, anxiety, and often led to suicide. The same type of things have happened with those who have sought "religious treatments", getting counseling from Christian clergy or therapists.

Seriously, if you have a better treatment, there are a lot of medical professionals and transgendered individuals that would love to hear about it.

Unfortunately, you are instead probably like most who claim that the current cure is "wrong" but haven't studied it at all.

I read the NCBI article Regional gray matter variation in male-to-female transsexualism.

This 3-year project may address some concerns mentioned.


Comparative Risks and Benefits of Gender Reassignment Therapies | Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute

 

[wintermile]

Why couldn't we have unisex bathrooms to make kids with gender identity issues a bit easier?

I agree.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Smith, Yolanda L.S. et al. “Adolescents With Gender Identity Disorder Who Were Accepted or Rejected for Sex Reassignment Surgery: A Prospective Follow-up Study” J. Am. Acad. Child Adolesc. Psychiatry 40:4 (April, 2001): 472-481

I took notice of this:

Conclusions

Careful diagnosis and strict criteria are necessary and sufficient to justify hormone treatment in adolescent transsexuals. Even though some of the nontreated patients may actually have gender identity disorder, the high levels of psychopathology found in this group justify the decision to not start hormone treatment too soon or too easily.
​

Apparently, there are a number of disturbed individuals who should not be allowed to undergo hormone treatment.

 

[Maren]

I took notice of this:

Conclusions

Careful diagnosis and strict criteria are necessary and sufficient to justify hormone treatment in adolescent transsexuals. Even though some of the nontreated patients may actually have gender identity disorder, the high levels of psychopathology found in this group justify the decision to not start hormone treatment too soon or too easily.
​

Apparently, there are a number of disturbed individuals who should not be allowed to undergo hormone treatment.

And I'm not aware of anyone that disagrees with that, especially if you note that they said "...justify the decision..." Basically, the Standard of Care are already set up to try and weed out those that aren't actually transsexual, but instead have a different type of psychological issues. There are some transgendered individuals who get frustrated at the "hoops they have to jump through" in order to get the treatment they feel they need. The statement you are pointing out is merely reaffirming that those standards are justified.

 

[morningstar2651]

Why couldn't we have unisex bathrooms to make kids with gender identity issues a bit easier?

Sounds like a good solution to me.

 

[Sarah Sarah]

Why couldn't we have unisex bathrooms to make kids with gender identity issues a bit easier?

Why not have bathrooms designated for Trans only?

 

[KitKatMatt]

Unisex sounds like a much better problem solver. Fewer bathrooms to maintain (as opposed to two, or even three if you wanted a separate trans* bathroom).

 

[Marius27]

Why not have bathrooms designated for Trans only?

Makes them are target for starters, and is obviously economically inefficient.

 

[MachZer0]

Makes them are target for starters, and is obviously economically inefficient.

Do you think a boy going into the girls' restroom makes him less of a target than if he had a separate restroom?

 

[Cute Tink]

Do you think a boy going into the girls' restroom makes him less of a target than if he had a separate restroom?

You don't think that men are more likely to physically attack a person dressed female in the men's room than women are in a women's room?

 

[Cjwinnit]

You don't think that men are more likely to physically attack a person dressed female in the men's room than women are in a women's room?

California will show us the answer to that question in the next few weeks...

 

[wintermile]

Makes them are target for starters, and is obviously economically inefficient.

No. It makes for a safer environment.

If some use female bathrooms, will they have their protective friends around them at all times?

 

[MachZer0]

You don't think that men are more likely to physically attack a person dressed female in the men's room than women are in a women's room?

We're talking about boys and girls, not men and women. And the point made, not by me, was that having a separate restroom for sexually confused children would make them targets for bullying.

 

[morningstar2651]

No. It makes for a safer environment.

If some use female bathrooms, will they have their protective friends around them at all times?

I've never attacked anyone in the restroom.

I have the feeling that the kind of person that attacks someone in the restroom doesn't really care that the sign on the door says "women only"

 

[Cearbhall]

Why not have bathrooms designated for Trans only?

Not all districts have the money to build new bathrooms that will only be used by a few students, I suppose. I think having one or two unisex bathrooms in the school that anyone can choose to use would be a better option.

 

[Cute Tink]

We're talking about boys and girls, not men and women. And the point made, not by me, was that having a separate restroom for sexually confused children would make them targets for bullying.

Would it have really changed the point to say "males" and "females"? You are nitpicking.

As to the point, yes, it would probably make them more of a target because some trans people do actually pass as their presented gender and you wouldn't pick them out. Making them go to a "trans only" bathroom would out those people without a doubt, which would make them a target if they weren't already. On top of that, those intent on targeting them would then have a convenient location to wait for them.