Calculations for Enoch's Calendar, Which is God's Calendar, Forever

[yeshuasavedme]

No, never said that at all. Just pointing out that there were others with similar ideas. Lots of ideas in fact and some very strange.

"Philo" you cannot produce before Enoch with any such a thing...and Philo! -How strange of you to bring him up as if you have something he wrote that can corborrate anything you are claiming!

 

[Habakk]

After this post, I will not respond to this argument of yours anymore.
Use a concordance and please note that the Hebrew language is not "first" in Genesis for "one day", but "echad", which is "one" as in a unit. Your English translation is not inspired as the Hebrew is, and it makes a doctrine for you which is not biblical at all.

The evening and the morning were one/echad "Day", together, and so it has been ever since, and the one/echad day of creation was followed by five more of them, all evenings and mornings, and we can count them in succession, but the evening/darkness and morning/light/day, together "echad", were called/named "Day".

Ok then I will respond to it.

Hebrew has a relatively small vocabulary and very complex rules of grammar. There are two Hebrew words for one, Yachid and Echad.

Echad means unified one but sometimes it represents numeric oneness as in first. The Hebrew grammar dictates that here in the Genesis day it means first.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Ok then I will respond to it.

Hebrew has a relatively small vocabulary and very complex rules of grammar. There are two Hebrew words for one, Yachid and Echad.

Echad means unified one but sometimes it represents numeric oneness as in first. The Hebrew grammar dictates that here in the Genesis day it means first.

You may...and I will respond to this though it is completely off subject.
The passage is translated "one" in many translations, and that fits the context in that the Hebrew is clear that darkness/night and light/day equal, together, one "Day".

God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

In context, God did not use echad as "first" for day one, showing that "Day" is a unit of darkness/night and light/day, beginning with the darkness.

There were many numbered days after the one day of darkness and light, but the one day was to show what "Day" is.

"Shama Israel YHWH Elohym Echad YHWH", We do not say; "... YHWH Elohym is first YHWH"

 

[granpa]

In two months [the first and the sixth] the moon sets with the sun in those two middle portals the 6 third and the fourth.

She goes forth for seven days,

and turns about and returns again [for 7 more days] through the portal..., and accomplishes all her light:

and she recedes from the sun, and in eight 7 days enters the sixth portal....

(And when the sun goes forth from the fourth portal she goes forth seven days, until she [this must be an error. It should say he the sun] goes forth from the fifth)
​

and turns back again in seven days into the fourth portal and accomplishes all her light:

and she recedes and enters into the first portal in eight days.

And she returns again in seven days into the fourth portal...

Thus I saw their position -how the moons rose and the sun set in those days.

at a certain point in the year the sun rises from a point on the horizon that is further north than at any other time in the year. 6 months later it rises from a point that is further south than any other. the points between are divided into 6 "portals" each one month long. Since the moon is in the ecliptic it also follows the same pattern rising in each of the 6 portals but what takes the sun one year to do the moon does in one month.

in the first month the sun and new moon rise and set together at the the point between the 3rd and 4th portals.


7 days later the moon is in the 1st portal.
7 days later the moon is in the 4st portal. (the moon is full)
7 days later the moon is in the 6st portal.
7 days later the moon is in the 4st portal. (the sun is now in the 5th portal)
7 days later the moon is in the 1st portal.
7 days later the moon is in the 4st portal.


the text in brackets is my own It is not part of the book of enoch

 

[granpa]

And if five years are added together the sun has an overplus of thirty days,

and all the days which accrue to it for one of those five years, when they are full, amount to 364 days.

And the overplus of the sun and of the stars amounts to six days: in 5 years 6 days every year come to 30 days:

and the 12 moon falls behind the sun and stars to the number of 30 days.

And the sun and the stars bring in all the years exactly, so that they do not advance or delay their position by a single day unto eternity; but complete the years with perfect justice in 364 days.

In 3 years there are 1,092 days,
and in 5 years 1,820 days,
so that in 8 years there are 2,912 days.

For the moon alone the days amount in 3 years to 1,062 days,
and in 5 years she falls 50 days behind:

[i.e. to the sum (of 1,770) there is to be added (1,000 and) 62 days.]
And in 5 years there are 1,770 days,​

so that for the moon the days in 8 years amount to 2832 days.

[For in 8 years she falls behind to the amount of 80 days],
​

all the days she falls behind in 8 years are 80.

And the year is accurately completed in conformity with their world-stations and the stations of the sun, which rise from the portals through which it (the sun) rises and sets 30 days

the lunar month is 29.5 days.
12 lunar months = 354 days

12 months of 30 days each is 360 days

360 - 354 = 6
364 - 354 = 10


in reality of course the solar year is 365.24 days

 

[granpa]

1.25 days each year arent accounted for.

in 8 years that amounts to 10 days


Lunation is the mean time for one lunar phase cycle (i.e., the synodic period of the Moon). It is on average 29.530589 days

Individual lunations vary in length by several hours, because of the eccentricity of the orbits of the Moon and Earth. However, the lunation is never more than 15 hours behind or ahead of a mean lunation


a year = 365.242199 days

The solar year does not have a whole number of lunar months (it is about 12.37 lunations),

365.242199 / 29.530589= 12.3682666472



8 * 12.3682666472 = 98.9461331776


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metonic_cycle

19 * 12.3682666472 = 234.99706629

8 * 2 + 3 = 19

 

[yeshuasavedme]

at a certain point in the year the sun rises from a point on the horizon that is further north than at any other time in the year. 6 months later it rises from a point that is further south than any other. the points between are divided into 6 "portals" each one month long.

Hi,
Enoch saw six portals -electro magnetic paths the sun follows [my understanding]-in the east and six in the west, and there are four portals between -the east to west paths, turning back northward to rise in the east again [which makes the modern unbelievers think the earth tilts back and forth, and rotates, but it does not. The sun and moon have their own peculiar paths around the earth, in the circling heavens].
The year begins with the sun coming forth from the 4th portal 30 days.
The sun and moon are bound by the oath of power [God's Word setting them in orbits], between them, and keep faith with one another according to their paths. The moon falls behind the sun, in its path,

2And this is the first law of the luminaries: the luminary the Sun has its rising in the eastern portals of the heaven, and its setting in the western portals of the heaven.
3And I saw six portals in which the sun rises, and six portals in which the sun sets: and the moon rises and sets in these portals, and the leaders of the stars and those whom they lead: six in the east and six in the west, and all following each other in accurately corresponding order: also many windows to the right and left of these portals.


4And first there goes forth the great luminary, named the Sun, and his circumference is like the circumference of the heaven, and he is quite filled with illuminating and heating fire.



5The chariot on which he ascends, the wind [the electromagnetic forces] drives, and the sun goes down from the heaven and returns through the north in order to reach the east, and is so guided that he comes to that portal and shines in the face of the heaven.



6In this way he rises in the first month in the great portal, which is the fourth those six portals in the east.



7And in that fourth portal from which the sun rises in the first month are twelve window-openings, from which proceed a flame when they are opened in their season.

8When the sun rises in the heaven, he comes forth through that fourth portal thirty mornings in succession, and sets accurately in the fourth portal in the west of the heaven.


...

The moon

74 And I saw another course, a law for her, and how according to that law she performs her monthly revolution.
2And all these Uriel, the holy angel who is the leader of them all, showed to me, and their positions, and I wrote down their positions as he showed them to me, and I wrote down their months as they were, and the appearance of their lights till fifteen days were accomplished.
3In single seventh parts she accomplishes all her light in the east, and in single seventh parts accomplishes all her darkness in the west.

4And in certain months she alters her settings, and in certain months she pursues her own peculiar course.


5In two months the moon sets with the sun: in those two middle portals the third and the fourth. 6She goes forth for seven days, and turns about and returns again through the portal where the sun rises, and accomplishes all her light: and she recedes from the sun, and in eight days enters the sixth portal from which the sun goes forth.



7And when the sun goes forth from the fourth portal she goes forth seven days, until she goes forth from the fifth and turns back again in seven days into the fourth portal and accomplishes all her light: and she recedes and enters into the first portal in eight days.



8And she returns again in seven days into the fourth portal from which the sun goes forth.
9Thus I saw their position- how the moons rose and the sun set in those days.
10And if five years are added together the sun has an overplus of thirty days, and all the days which accrue to it for one of those five years, when they are full, amount to 364 days.

11And the overplus of the sun and of the stars amounts to six days: in 5 years 6 days every year come to 30 days: and the moon falls behind the sun and stars to the number of 30 days.

12And the sun and the stars bring in all the years exactly, so that they do not advance or delay their position by a single day unto eternity; but complete the years with perfect justice in 364 days.

13In 3 years there are 1,092 days, and in 5 years 1,820 days, so that in 8 years there are 2,912 days. 14For the moon alone the days amount in 3 years to 1,062 days, and in 5 years she falls 50 days behind:

15And in 5 years there are 1,770 days, so that for the moon the days in 8 years amount to 2,832 days.

16For in 8 years she falls behind to the amount of 80 days, all the days she falls behind in 8 years are 80. 17And the year is accurately completed in conformity with their world-stations and the stations of the sun, which rise from the portals through which it the sun rises and sets 30 days.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

1.25 days each year arent accounted for.

in 8 years that amounts to 10 days

The days are perfect, counted from Mount Zion in Jerusalem from sunset to sunset, with four uncounted holy "stop" days at the head of the seasons, which are added in number of days at the end of the year, making "the years complete in perfect justice, unto eternity".

One of the links I pasted has the sunset to sunset times from Mount Zion in Jerusalem, and you can count the days up, with the four "stops", and they come to the perfect number.

http://www.new-moon.org/EnochsSunriseSunsetTimes.pdf

 

[granpa]

It is not linear. Its more complicated than that. Its certainly not "perfect"

 

[Habakk]

It is not linear. Its more complicated than that. Its certainly not "perfect"

Good points granpa.

This is typical of the difficulties and the arguments of the day in trying to determine solar and lunar years. Historically there were disputes on how to calculate the Abib year. Some proponents argued that a set day was calculated in 19 year cycles others simply observed the barley harvest and made adjustments accordingly.

They were unaware of the more complex astronomical calculations that we have access to today, concerning elliptical orbits, Kepler’s laws and such things. The calculations in Enoch are not consistent with known orbital motion, they don’t work.

As was common in those days a supposed revelation ascribed to the pen name of Enoch was written to try to quell such arguments. All this does is lend more support to the view of scholars that the book of Enoch is not a book that Enoch the seventh from Adam actually wrote. This practice was very common as a lot believed that as Enoch had not died he would know the secrets of creation and that he had communicated some of those secrets. So they wrote in his name and this accounts for the fragmented composition of the book of Enoch as it is simply a collection of such works.

Don’t forget that some are making money by publishing rather dramatic and poor researched accounts of Enoch, based more on speculation. They certainly go against the opinion of most scholars who are in position of the true facts and who have done their homework properly.

 

[Habakk]

You may...and I will respond to this though it is completely off subject.
The passage is translated "one" in many translations, and that fits the context in that the Hebrew is clear that darkness/night and light/day equal, together, one "Day".

God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

In context, God did not use echad as "first" for day one, showing that "Day" is a unit of darkness/night and light/day, beginning with the darkness.

There were many numbered days after the one day of darkness and light, but the one day was to show what "Day" is.

"Shama Israel YHWH Elohym Echad YHWH", We do not say; "... YHWH Elohym is first YHWH"

The grammatical context of echad applied to yom means first. That’s how it works.

 

[YeShallTread]

After this post, I will not respond to this argument of yours anymore.

Okay....just so you realize what you are not responding to is His Word.

Use a concordance and please note that the Hebrew language is not "first" in Genesis for "one day", but "echad", which is "one" as in a unit. Your English translation is not inspired as the Hebrew is, and it makes a doctrine for you which is not biblical at all.

That doesn't amount to a hill of beans for first or one isn't the topic as ALL SIX DAYS say the same thing. We are discussing LIGHT, DAY, EVENING AND MORNING which are days. You, a mere human, are inserting Night or calling darkness light.

Genesis 1:5 AndGod called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
​

Do you SEE

GOD CALLED THE LIGHT DAY. And then GOD SAID...the evening and the morning were the first day. Both evening and morning are light...there is no darkness/night in the day/light. Or, do you wish to correct God's understanding?



Night/Darkness isn't part of what our Father said. Do you wish to continue inserting your thoughts for His Word? Do you wish to continue to quibble about first or one? If so then read the rest....how are you going to argue these days into also including dark/night?

1:3 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
1:9 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
​

The evening and the morning were one/echad "Day", together, and so it has been ever since, and the one/echad day of creation was followed by five more of them, all evenings and mornings, and we can count them in succession, but the evening/darkness and morning/light/day, together "echad", were called/named "Day".

So says a human. What did God say?

 

[YeShallTread]

The passage is translated "one" in many translations, and that fits the context in that the Hebrew is clear that darkness/night and light/day equal, together, one "Day".

God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

Yes, it is translated "one" in many translations.

No, it is not shown as you show it...."And there was evening and there was morning, one day."

Rather it is....And there was evening and there was morning, day one.


You say "ONE DAY." God says, "DAY ONE." There is a huge difference in understanding within those two words.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Yes, it is translated "one" in many translations.

No, it is not shown as you show it...."And there was evening and there was morning, one day."

Rather it is....And there was evening and there was morning, day one.


You say "ONE DAY." God says, "DAY ONE." There is a huge difference in understanding within those two words.

Oh my...this is the last post to you over something that derails the thread. but the word order is the translators doing, and is not the Hebrew order. Context is everything, and the context is as I said.
Look, from the concordance, pasted below: the Hebrew word order is "one day". -Now please stop derailing the thread.

אלהים 'elohiym
קרא qara'
אור 'owr
יום yowm
חשך choshek
קרא qara'
ליל layil
ערב `ereb
בקר boqer
אחד 'echad /one
יום yowm/Day

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Enoch already wrote about the stars that never set, so the argument is not gonna fly. He knew like all men that the world/tebel is a globe/tebel. To argue that Enoch is wrong because of the globe having poles and night lengths and day lengths differing in different is to make Jesus a liar also, for he said "are there not twelve hours in the day"?
Day, in that passage meaning the period of light, and Jesus is speaking from Jerusalem, where indeed there are equal periods of day and night, twice a year.
So the argument won't fly unless you guys are willing to call Jesus, the Creator, uninformed and or a liar.

Enoch's position for the calendar's reckoning is from the "navel" of the earth, which is Mount Zion in Jerusalem, which has two equal length periods of light and darkness. He also saw the north pole and wrote of it.

Out of Jerusalem will come the reckoning of the calendar for the restoration millennium.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The grammatical context of echad applied to yom means first. That’s how it works.

Nope.
Now stop derailing the thread, please.

 

[YeShallTread]

Oh my...this is the last post to you over something that derails the thread. but the word order is the translators doing, and is not the Hebrew order. Context is everything, and the context is as I said.
Look, from the concordance, pasted below: the Hebrew word order is "one day". -Now please stop derailing the thread.

אלהים 'elohiym
קרא qara'
אור 'owr
יום yowm
חשך choshek
קרא qara'
ליל layil
ערב `ereb
בקר boqer
אחד 'echad /one
יום yowm/Day

Yes...it is as YOU said but NOT as GOD SAID. That is something you need to deal with. As for the thread being derailed...who was the one that first mentioned this? Why...I believe it was you.


In the text it is....day one. It is NOT one day according to E.W. Bullinger. The concordance is just placing the words in the same order as the translators...and they were in error...as are you.

 

[YeShallTread]

Enoch already wrote about the stars that never set, so the argument is not gonna fly. He knew like all men that the world/tebel is a globe/tebel. To argue that Enoch is wrong because of the globe having poles and night lengths and day lengths differing in different is to make Jesus a liar also, for he said "are there not twelve hours in the day"?

Yes, Jesus said "are there not twelve hours IN THE DAY." Twelve hours are in A DAY. There are also twelve hours in a NIGHT. Now, do you SEE?

Day, in that passage meaning the period of light, and Jesus is speaking from Jerusalem, where indeed there are equal periods of day and night, twice a year.
So the argument won't fly unless you guys are willing to call Jesus, the Creator, uninformed and or a liar.

LOL. Unbelievable. So now you recognize that a "period of light" is day. And offer no "oh gosh, I was wrong about putting night into day."

Enoch's position for the calendar's reckoning is from the "navel" of the earth, which is Mount Zion in Jerusalem, which has two equal length periods of light and darkness. He also saw the north pole and wrote of it.

Out of Jerusalem will come the reckoning of the calendar for the restoration millennium.

And to that I say...SO WHAT? Talk about derailing the thread. What I see is that you cannot admit you were wrong and that is a problem.

 

[Habakk]

Nope.
Now stop derailing the thread, please.

I was responding to a legitamate post I am mot derailing any thread. We are suppost to address the posts not the poster.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Here is another calendar helper for the creation calendar, for those who are truly interested in this study and want to understand the true calendar of God, more:

http://artscalendararticles.mysite.com/blank_11.htmlCreation Calendar Information

...
Genesis, chapter 9, states God's covenant after the flood with Noah and his seed after him. Also notice God's instructions to Noah and his sons in verse 1: "And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth." (KJV)
Adam and Noah talked face to face with God and had the council of God and the lights (sun and moon) of his creation. The sun cast a shadow then just as it does today. By using the shadow, we can locate the equinox (equal dark and equal light) as the sun will do this automatically. This will give us a starting point for the solar year and keep us in step with creation. We need to understand this before we apply Leviticus 23.

The above feast dates are based on Jerusalem, Israel time zone location. They will keep us in step with creation without an intercalated or inserted new moon that was not divided by the sun and moon.


Day = sunset to sunset, (at the absence of direct sunlight when the sun sets below the horizon).
Week = seven complete days with the seventh day a Sabbath.
New moon = starts when the moon becomes dark at the first absence of direct sunlight, like the day.
Equinox = the original Latin definition, about 1350-1400 A.D.: "the time of equal days and nights."
Solar year = starts with the equinox divided by the sun and moon at Jerusalem.
Passover = occurs when the dark new moon will put the 14th day in the new solar year.
Symbolic Wave Sheaf = after the weekly Sabbath on Sunday during the Days of Unleavened Bread.
Pentecost = count 50 days from the date of symbolic Wave Sheaf, which will be on a Sunday.
Count from the Abib 1 dark new moon date, to the seventh dark new moon date to set the rest of God's feasts in the seventh month. All God's festivals are counted from the first dark new moon date to the seventh dark new moon date which are divided by the sun and moon.

Because of the great error of man departing from the revealed calendar, there is much confusion on dates, but God has never changed His calendar and His calendar is never going to change. Men messed with his "times and seasons" when they departed from God and His laws which are set in place over His creation; but that departing and subsequent confusion has never changed what God set in place in the beginning, and forever.