Calculations for Enoch's Calendar, Which is God's Calendar, Forever

[Steve Petersen]

You err on that, in that the book of Enoch was well known and well used in the day of Jesus -who quoted from it and preached His Gospel from its revelations which were already written about Himself -besides from Moses and all the other prophets, also; and so did His womb brothers, Jude and James quote from Enoch.
Also Paul, and the author of Hebrews [who may be Paul or Apollos], and Peter as well as about every early NT times writer of the faith that we have any of the copies of the writings of quoted from Enoch and called it Scripture, which Jesus called it, also.
The Ethiopian Enoch has come down to this day kept as canon in the Ethiopian Bible precisely because the converts to the Gospel in Ethiopia were Jews who had, and used, Enoch, and who never abandoned it.
The Dead Sea Scrolls Enoch also agrees in totality with the same corresponding sections which there were found any fragments of copies of, as the Ethiopian Enoch manuscripts, which have never been hidden or lost.

As to the ridiculous claim that Enoch was changed, one can make much more of a claim for the OT, in that there is not complete agreement between many manuscripts -but we accept the Masoretic, mainly, which was put together and dates from the middle ages, only; nor are there any ancient original copies of the Torah or entire Tenach, or even entire manuscripts that date older, even, as the copies of the Book of Enoch which is in the Ethiopian Bible.

Show me an extant copy from prior to the 1st century. (takes time for a book to be accepted as authoritative you know.)

Then prove that this is the same book that Jude quoted. All you have is one verse quoted by him.

 

[Noxot]

That’s not a valid argument because many spiritual people have read Enoch and concluded that it’s not a work written by Enoch and carries no scriptural authority.

The OT gives an accurate view of Jesus Christ because it is inspired scripture. The book of Enoch is likely to corrupt true doctrinal truth.

In essence you are saying that Enoch is genuine because of your spiritual opinion. Then we need to agree to disagree because that is not a valid scriptural argument. I will stay with the Bible I have.

what spiritual people say that enoch is not from God? btw you can corrupt your view of Jesus Christ by reading any book of the NT and OT. let me remind everyone once again that there were many religious people that read the OT in the days of Jesus and they did not know God who was right in front of them.

 

[Habakk]

what spiritual people say that enoch is not from God?

Most of them do.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The OT gives an accurate view of Jesus Christ because it is inspired scripture. The book of Enoch is likely to corrupt true doctrinal truth.

.

In the OT, "the Son of Man in heaven", who was with God and who was God, is not found named as that, anywhere. He is there, but Enoch reveals Him so that when He came, the rest is understood.
Take for instance the fact that to the Son of Man in heaven every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that He is LORD, to the glory of God. Paul read Enoch and knew that the Son of Man to whom every knee would bow and every tongue would confess is the LORD Jesus Christ: the passage in Isaiah does not say to Jesus Christ as the Son of Man in heaven every knee will bow and every tongue confess, but YHWH says it, in Isaiah.

Enoch had already revealed that the Son of Man in heaven is God to whom every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess, and so Paul writes from Enoch that Jesus Christ is that One: not as a new revelation, which Paul could not bring or else he would be a false prophet and teacher, but as understanding what is already written, and now revealed.

 

[Noxot]

Most of them do.

like? and also, what did you mean by "no" when you quoted my three questions?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Show me an extant copy from prior to the 1st century. (takes time for a book to be accepted as authoritative you know.)

Then prove that this is the same book that Jude quoted. All you have is one verse quoted by him.

Most of the opening passage of Enoch is quoted by Jude, the womb brother of Jesus [Jesus' earthly family loved and studied Enoch: Mary also quoted from it].
There is enough of the fragments in the DSS manuscript copies to prove the Ethiopian manuscripts are uncorrupted over time, and that Jude indeed quoted from Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam -as Jude said.

BTW: this is not to prove Enoch, but rather, to show those interested that the calendar can be calculated according to what the angel Uriel revealed to Enoch as God's calendar "unto eternity", and that it does not change -so anyone with interest can discover the times and seasons and years, to the number exactly, of them.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Originally Posted by Habakk

The OT gives an accurate view of Jesus Christ because it is inspired scripture. The book of Enoch is likely to corrupt true doctrinal truth.



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quote yeshuasavedme: In the OT, "the Son of Man in heaven", who was with God and who was God, is not found named as that, anywhere. He is there, but Enoch reveals Him so that when He came, the rest is understood.
Take for instance the fact that to the Son of Man in heaven every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that He is LORD, to the glory of God. Paul read Enoch and knew that the Son of Man to whom every knee would bow and every tongue would confess is the LORD Jesus Christ: the passage in Isaiah does not say to Jesus Christ as the Son of Man in heaven every knee will bow and every tongue confess, but YHWH says it, in Isaiah.

Enoch had already revealed that the Son of Man in heaven is God to whom every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess, and so Paul writes from Enoch that Jesus Christ is that One: not as a new revelation, which Paul could not bring or else he would be a false prophet and teacher, but as understanding what is already written, and now revealed.

In the OT, "the Son of Man in heaven", who was with God and who was God, is not found named as that, anywhere. He is there, but Enoch reveals Him so that when He came, the rest is understood.
Take for instance the fact that to the Son of Man in heaven every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that He is LORD, to the glory of God. Paul read Enoch and knew that the Son of Man to whom every knee would bow and every tongue would confess is the LORD Jesus Christ: the passage in Isaiah does not say to Jesus Christ as the Son of Man in heaven every knee will bow and every tongue confess, but YHWH says it, in Isaiah.

Enoch had already revealed that the Son of Man in heaven is God to whom every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess, and so Paul writes from Enoch that Jesus Christ is that One: not as a new revelation, which Paul could not bring or else he would be a false prophet and teacher, but as understanding what is already written, and now revealed.

Also, in the OT, the Son of Man is not said to have all judgment committed to Him by the Father. Only Enoch states that fact -which Jesus confirms.

 

[Noxot]

i'm not good with math... someone tell me how many enoch years have passed since Jesus was born =(

 

[yeshuasavedme]

i'm not good with math... someone tell me how many enoch years have passed since Jesus was born =(

I am not either, but the links I pasted from have calculations on them...
Except I do not think either of them begin with Rosh Hashanah, which begins the years counted from creation.

BTW: it seems that the extra day added to our calendars is made up by taking a little off each day through the year, but if one calculates from sunset to sunset, beginning at the time Enoch wrote of for the portals the sun enters through and the stars lead the seasons, by, and then counts the days of the week skipping a count for the head of the seasons, but adding it to the end of the year, then they will have it exactly.

 

[Habakk]

quote yeshuasavedme: In the OT, "the Son of Man in heaven", who was with God and who was God, is not found named as that, anywhere. He is there, but Enoch reveals Him so that when He came, the rest is understood.
Take for instance the fact that to the Son of Man in heaven every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that He is LORD, to the glory of God. Paul read Enoch and knew that the Son of Man to whom every knee would bow and every tongue would confess is the LORD Jesus Christ: the passage in Isaiah does not say to Jesus Christ as the Son of Man in heaven every knee will bow and every tongue confess, but YHWH says it, in Isaiah.

Enoch had already revealed that the Son of Man in heaven is God to whom every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess, and so Paul writes from Enoch that Jesus Christ is that One: not as a new revelation, which Paul could not bring or else he would be a false prophet and teacher, but as understanding what is already written, and now revealed.

Also, in the OT, the Son of Man is not said to have all judgment committed to Him by the Father. Only Enoch states that fact -which Jesus confirms.

That’s not true as there was the thought amongst some groups of that time period of similar ideas concerning the devar/memra or logos. Philo the jewish philosopher was one of them.

 

[YeShallTread]

Evening begins at sunset. There was evening of the one day before there was the light of the one day.
On day 4 of evenings and mornings, the sun was made and set in the heavens and was made to be the governor of the light created on day 1.
Ever after, the sun's going down marks the end of the one day and the beginning of another.

Your understanding is that of evening beginning at sunset but...you are mistaken, as was I before I saw the meaning.

Even-ing BEGINS when the sun is directly EVEN with the earth...with as much light before it as behind it. Before it reaches that apex it is morning and remains morning until 12:00 after which it is the beginning of evening which ends when the sun sets. As written, "the evening and the morning were the first day." Knowing that...when did the day start?

Notice that night is not included in those six days. It isn't written that the evening, morning and night were the first day...just the evening and morning.

Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
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[yeshuasavedme]

...

Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
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One day is the period of darkness and the period of light, taken from the beginning of the darkness period because God began the creation with the darkness, first, then said; "let there be light", and there was light.....the evening is the darkness, the light is the day.
The sunset begins the darkness called Night and the dawning begins the light called Day.

In Enoch there are 18 parts to one day of evening and morning =day and night periods.
But the parts are shortened and lengthened in each day [but for two in the year], for each, as the sun goes around the earth in its path in the heavens, rising through the six portals, back and forth, in the year [which heavens also circle the earth, from the beginning of creation as we read in Enoch and in the Tenach and NT].
In the shortest night in one Day, the night equals 6 parts and the day 12. In the shortest day in one Day, the day equals 6 parts and the night 12.

The Portals of the Sun...
...
7And in that fourth portal from which the sun rises in the first month are twelve window-openings, from which proceed a flame when they are opened in their season.
8When the sun rises in the heaven, he comes forth through that fourth portal thirty mornings in succession, and sets accurately in the fourth portal in the west of the heaven.
9And during this period the day becomes daily longer and the night nightly shorter to the thirtieth morning. 1
0On that day the day is longer than the night by a ninth part, and the day amounts exactly to ten parts and the night to eight parts.
11And the sun rises from that fourth portal, and sets in the fourth and returns to the fifth portal of the east thirty mornings, and rises from it and sets in the fifth portal.
12And then the day becomes longer by two parts and amounts to eleven parts, and the night becomes shorter and amounts to seven parts.
13And it returns to the east and enters into the sixth portal, and rises and sets in the sixth portal one-and-thirty mornings on account of its sign. 14On that day the day becomes longer than the night, and the day becomes double the night, and the day becomes twelve parts, and the night is shortened and becomes six parts.

15And the sun mounts up to make the day shorter and the night longer, and the sun returns to the east and enters into the sixth portal, and rises from it and sets thirty mornings.
16And when thirty mornings are accomplished, the day decreases by exactly one part, and becomes eleven parts, and the night seven.
17And the sun goes forth from that sixth portal in the west, and goes to the east and rises in the fifth portal for thirty mornings, and sets in the west again in the fifth western portal.
18On that day the day decreases by two parts, and amounts to ten parts and the night to eight parts.
19And the sun goes forth from that fifth portal and sets in the fifth portal of the west, and rises in the fourth portal for one-and-thirty mornings on account of its sign, and sets in the west.
20On that day the day is equalized with the night, and becomes of equal length, and the night amounts to nine parts and the day to nine parts. 21And the sun rises from that portal and sets in the west, and returns to the east and rises thirty mornings in the third portal and sets in the west in the third portal.
22And on that day the night becomes longer than the day, and night becomes longer than night, and day shorter than day till the thirtieth morning, and the night amounts exactly to ten parts and the day to eight parts.
23And the sun rises from that third portal and sets in the third portal in the west and returns to the east, and for thirty mornings rises in the second portal in the east, and in like manner sets in the second portal in the west of the heaven. 2
4And on that day the night amounts to eleven parts and the day to seven parts. 25And the sun rises on that day from that second portal and sets in the west in the second portal, and returns to the east into the first portal for one-and-thirty mornings, and sets in the first portal in the west of the heaven.
26And on that day the night becomes longer and amounts to the double of the day: and the night amounts exactly to twelve parts and the day to six. 27And the sun has therewith traversed the divisions of his orbit and turns again on those divisions of his orbit, and enters that portal thirty mornings and sets also in the west opposite to it.

28And on that night has the night decreased in length by a ninth part, and the night has become eleven parts and the day seven parts. 29And the sun has returned and entered into the second portal in the east, and returns on those his divisions of his orbit for thirty mornings, rising and setting. 30And on that day the night decreases in length, and the night amounts to ten parts and the day to eight. 31And on that day the sun rises from that portal, and sets in the west, and returns to the east, and rises in the third portal for one-and-thirty mornings, and sets in the west of the heaven. 32On that day the night decreases and amounts to nine parts, and the day to nine parts, and the night is equal to the day and the year is exactly as to its days three hundred and sixty-four. 33And the length of the day and of the night, and the shortness of the day and of the night arise- through the course of the sun these distinctions are made. 34So it comes that its course becomes daily longer, and its course nightly shorter. 35And this is the law and the course of the sun, and his return as often as he returns sixty times and rises, that is the great luminary which is named the sun, for ever and ever. 36And that which thus rises is the great luminary, and is so named according to its appearance, according as the Lord commanded. 37As he rises, so he sets and decreases not, and rests not, but runs day and night, and his light is sevenfold brighter than that of the moon; but as regards size they are both equal.

 

[YeShallTread]

One day is the period of darkness and the period of light, taken from the beginning of the darkness period because God began the creation with the darkness, first, then said; "let there be light", and there was light.....the evening is the darkness, the light is the day.
The sunset begins the darkness called Night and the dawning begins the light called Day.

Please read God's Word and His name is not Enoch...God didn't begin with darkness. Once the earth became void then darkness was upon the face of the deep. God began this age with light.

Genesis 1:3-5 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day
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What was the first day? EVENING AND THE MORNING...the LIGHT is called Day and there is no light in the darkness so the darkness was not "the first day."

 

[ViaCrucis]

There's also the question of when the Epistle of St. Jude was written. It was part of the Antilegomena in the ancient Church, among the writings considered disputed. Jude is quite possibly a fairly late text anyway. There's no universally accepted consensus on when Jude was written, which could be at the very tail end of the first century through the first half of the 2nd century. By the end of the 2nd century it was widely embraced, through some held reservations about it, Eusebius mentions it still being disputed (antilegomena) when he wrote in the 4th century. However, Jude has its place in the earliest known biblical codices: Sinaiticus, Vaticanus (presumably, as the text is damaged and missing after Hebrews), and Alexandrinus.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[yeshuasavedme]

double

 

[yeshuasavedme]

...What was the first day? EVENING AND THE MORNING...the LIGHT is called Day and there is no light in the darkness so the darkness was not "the first day."

In Genesis, the evening and the morning [the night time and the day time] =one/echad day.
The word "first" is not in Genesis as to the numbering of the first day, but the naming of the Echad/one [as in unit] Day as being made of the darkness and the light periods. The moon governs the night and the sun governs the day, but together, they are one unit, one echad, called "Day".

 

[yeshuasavedme]

That’s not true as there was the thought amongst some groups of that time period of similar ideas concerning the devar/memra or logos. Philo the jewish philosopher was one of them.

Philo???? You want to get wisdom and doctrine from Philo???? -you put foot in mouth!

Philo

PHILO

Of Philo's lengthy epic of 14 (or four) books, only three fragments consisting of a total of only 24 lines survive. About half of the lines are unintelligible, either because of faulty transmission of the text or because of the author's own obscurity. The view that the obscurity was intentional must be rejected.

 

[Habakk]

Philo???? You want to get wisdom and doctrine from Philo???? -you put foot in mouth!

No, never said that at all. Just pointing out that there were others with similar ideas. Lots of ideas in fact and some very strange.

 

[YeShallTread]

In Genesis, the evening and the morning [the night time and the day time] =one/echad day.
The word "first" is not in Genesis as to the numbering of the first day, but the naming of the Echad/one [as in unit] Day as being made of the darkness and the light periods. The moon governs the night and the sun governs the day, but together, they are one unit, one echad, called "Day".

Do you not think it very, very dangerous to place your understanding over that of God? Please see these words, His words.

Genesis 1:3-5 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day
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What was the first day? EVENING AND THE MORNING were the first day and no night is mentioned as being day. GOD CALLEDLIGHT Day and the night is NOT LIGHT....there is no light in the darkness so the darkness was not "the first day."


Now, go ahead and argue some more with Him but know...the following may apply to those that do this.....

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
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[yeshuasavedme]

Do you not think it very, very dangerous to place your understanding over that of God? Please see these words, His words.

Genesis 1:3-5 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day...
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After this post, I will not respond to this argument of yours anymore.
Use a concordance and please note that the Hebrew language is not "first" in Genesis for "one day", but "echad", which is "one" as in a unit. Your English translation is not inspired as the Hebrew is, and it makes a doctrine for you which is not biblical at all.

The evening and the morning were one/echad "Day", together, and so it has been ever since, and the one/echad day of creation was followed by five more of them, all evenings and mornings, and we can count them in succession, but the evening/darkness and morning/light/day, together "echad", were called/named "Day".