Discussion Cakes,lawsuits,and a Holy Spirit filled life.

[SpiritPsalmist]

We do not have the right to JUDGE anyone....as in determining what the condition of their heart is or where someone/anyone will spend eternity. In doing so, the measure that we have used to determine such will be used on us and we will receive the same "lack of mercy" we dealt out. (Matt 7:1-2). However, we do have the right to determine actions (not the same as determining the place their heart is in 'cause we cannot possibly know that), words, doctrine, and teachings. As pointed out by another, if we judge it is to be our self. Again, it's not to "condemn" our self but to determine if our actions, words, doctrine, and teachings are correct.

 

[fat wee robin]

And what did He do to those who condemned her? Before you make the mistake of saying, "Nothing." because He said so little to them, please notice how they all reacted to what He did. They were all smitten by their own guilt and walked off. But, in today's age, the Church is standing around applauding those who condemned the sinner, rather than repent of their own impiety. I fear for many of this age who are convinced of their own perfection. I am saddened more by what I realize from Scripture that the condemners will experience than I am by what was done to the couple that was refused. The bakers had the opportunity to offer a "cup of cold water" in His Name. They refused Him. And they are applauded? The Church really is in desperate need of a wake-up call to realize how absolutely devoid of righteousness they really are.

"Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. " Rev 3:17-19

You have explained very well what I believe to have been a very negative aspect of christian evangelists ,which may or may ot have led to people feeling not heard ,not
welcomed in churches and among the adhérents .
However there are so many people in the so called christian community nowadays who actually promote same sex relationships,as on this site ,and see no harm in same sex marriage . Me who would never have shunned 'gays' before, feel that I have to keep a distance, or it is assumed that one agrees wholeheartedly with their
way of thinking etc .
The hour is now past in most cases where we an change much as the internet allows
those who are interested to partake ,and know that they are welcome ,that God loves them and so do we . You assume that they don't know ,but most do and don't want to hear ,WILL not hear.

 

[Alithis]

We do not have the right to JUDGE anyone....as in determining what the condition of their heart is or where someone/anyone will spend eternity. In doing so, the measure that we have used to determine such will be used on us and we will receive the same "lack of mercy" we dealt out. (Matt 7:1-2). However, we do have the right to determine actions (not the same as determining the place their heart is in 'cause we cannot possibly know that), words, doctrine, and teachings. As pointed out by another, if we judge it is to be our self. Again, it's not to "condemn" our self but to determine if our actions, words, doctrine, and teachings are correct.

yes agreed. in the bounds of "the church" we not only can judge but must .
but judgement of the world is simply not ours to make ... ie-"vengeance is mine says the lord I will repay ".. thus , not ours.

i should make a small clarification of where im coming from as opposed to where i used to come from.i used to be in a state of loathing gays .. sure i loath what they do i mean it is so non pc to speak in terms of truth .. the now forbidden truth to speak of .. the Truth is it comes down to unnatural and abnormal rebellious lust against their own conscience and where they desire to stick parts of their body for the purpose of self gratification (being they cannot claim procreation) ..it is sexual immorality and nothing less .
And i used to be so angry at them flaunting it forcibly in my face and crying tolerance while displaying absolutely no tolerance to any who disagree with their right to abnormally self gratify .

but back i those days i myself struggles with sexual immorality in the realm of porn (which is adultery- nothing less ..) it too is sexual immorality - and again NOTHING LESS .it is abnormal and vile and those unrepentant of it will perish . it caused in me a self loathing and it was this self loathing of the known sin in my own heart which i transferred onto others and was the source of my anger toward the sodomites .

then (as i have testified often ) by his grace and the power of the holy Spirit at work within me the Lord Jesus absolutely set me free . that is to say he caused me to step into the victory he had already won for me on the cross and the power of the sin was broken .
With sins power broken he made me realize choice had been returned to me and i loved him for it and that love for him ,because he first loved me caused me to cease that sin and walk continually in freedom from it .. HALLELUJAH!

shall i now turn and throttle by the neck those who are still under sins power in sexual immorality ? shall i now turn and stand as judge over them ? by what grounds could i rightfully do so .. ? NONE! for it is by grace i was saved .and they cannot know the freedom of the cross except they be told of the lord Jesus and they cant be told of him from the seat of judgement but rather from the seat of mercy and love .. because mercy rejoices against judgment -
"For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment."-James .

 

[Alithis]

You have explained very well what I believe to have been a very negative aspect of christian evangelists ,which may or may ot have led to people feeling not heard ,not
welcomed in churches and among the adhérents .
However there are so many people in the so called christian community nowadays who actually promote same sex relationships,as on this site ,and see no harm in same sex marriage . Me who would never have shunned 'gays' before, feel that I have to keep a distance, or it is assumed that one agrees wholeheartedly with their
way of thinking etc .
The hour is now past in most cases where we an change much as the internet allows
those who are interested to partake ,and know that they are welcome ,that God loves them and so do we . You assume that they don't know ,but most do and don't want to hear ,WILL not hear.

we are not among them who promote sin .but rather the Gospel .
however never ever assume "they know" in only 20 years here is an entire generation of the world ..in numbers larger then have ever been upon the face of the earth that have not heard the truth about the lord Jesus and the good news of salvation.

 

[fat wee robin]

Maybe I'm mistaken. But, I've never known cake to feed anything other than a stomach. Is that now sin?

Why is it we are talking about 'gay' cakes now ,and not prostitute cakes , or playboy cakes ,or even nazi cakes . Why are you so blind to that , what is the purpose ?
Because some christians have been 'holier than thou' in the past, and I always hated that in them and still do, although it is less so now, does not mean they are not right now .
And you are being dishonest too, because they never refused to make a cake ,it was the promotion TOP they would not make .
Now I am finished with this topic .Am going to pray for us all .

 

[Alithis]

Why is it we are talking about 'gay' cakes now ,and not prostitute cakes , or playboy cakes ,or even nazi cakes . Why are you so blind to that , what is the purpose ?
Because some christians have been 'holier than thou' in the past, and I always hated that in them and still do, although it is less so now, does not mean they are not right now .
And you are being dishonest too, because they never refused to make a cake ,it was the promotion TOP they would not make .
Now I am finished with this topic .Am going to pray for us all .

you have not really addressed the op topic yet though ...

 

[Aldebaran]

Why is it we are talking about 'gay' cakes now ,and not prostitute cakes , or playboy cakes ,or even nazi cakes . Why are you so blind to that , what is the purpose ?
Because some christians have been 'holier than thou' in the past, and I always hated that in them and still do, although it is less so now, does not mean they are not right now .
And you are being dishonest too, because they never refused to make a cake ,it was the promotion TOP they would not make .
Now I am finished with this topic .Am going to pray for us all .

Maybe it would be about prostitute or nazi cakes if that's what the topic of this discussion was.

 

[Messy]

Maybe it would be about prostitute or nazi cakes if that's what the topic of this discussion was.

Lol nazi cake, that reminds me of Louis de Funes.

 

[Biblicist]

Lol nazi cake, that reminds me of Louis de Funes.

Not bad, not bad at all!

 

[now faith]

Hitler Reacts To Denied #GayWeddingCake:

Godwin's Law

 

[now faith]

I watched a interview with a Gay Baker, and he agreed with the bakery on their right of refusal.

From his perspective he would not bake a cake that compromised his personal conviction.

Why should anyone be forced to provide services that are offensive to their religious belief?

They certainly would not get a cake from a Muslim bakery,why protest a double standard?

 

[Soyeong]

I watched a interview with a Gay Baker, and he agreed with the bakery on their right of refusal.

From his perspective he would not bake a cake that compromised his personal conviction.

Why should anyone be forced to provide services that are offensive to their religious belief?

They certainly would not get a cake from a Muslim bakery,why protest a double standard?

HIDDEN CAM: #GayWeddingCakes at Muslim Bakeries?:

 

[now faith]

Why is it we are talking about 'gay' cakes now ,and not prostitute cakes , or playboy cakes ,or even nazi cakes . Why are you so blind to that , what is the purpose ?
Because some christians have been 'holier than thou' in the past, and I always hated that in them and still do, although it is less so now, does not mean they are not right now .
And you are being dishonest too, because they never refused to make a cake ,it was the promotion TOP they would not make .
Now I am finished with this topic .Am going to pray for us all .

I believe it is not the sin or the sinner that Christians are focused on with this issue.
It is redefining marriage that brings concern.

I agree sin is sin be it a prostitute or homosexual,we condem the sin not the sinner.

Redefining marriage is condoning the sin, there is a difference.

This brings to mind the NLT Bible, it replaces the term sodomite with temple Prostitutes.

My concern is the redefining of terms here,a prostitute can repent and marry and have relations with her husband.

On the other hand.. I will let others decide if it is a contradiction.

 

[Alithis]

Godwin's Law

haha ..mikes law .. without fail every time the topic of Hitler is raised .. some one cries -Godwin's Law!

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

yes agreed. in the bounds of "the church" we not only can judge but must .
but judgement of the world is simply not ours to make ... ie-"vengeance is mine says the lord I will repay ".. thus , not ours.

Of course, I was not meaning to say otherwise. I was mainly wanting to comment in regards to statements like "their selfish", "their hateful", etc.. I feel those are words regarding the heart and we cannot make those judgements, even within the bounds of the church. We can say "their actions or their words came across as hateful, and/or selfish but we don't know their heart. There is many a time where something sounds right in my head but as soon as it comes out of my mouth it does not work as I heard it in my head. Then to have someone accuse me of being hateful or selfish is unfair, because in my heart that is not what was intended at all. I think we can all play life perfectly from our couches and our computers, but when we're out there in the middle of it, it's not so easy.

 

[Alithis]

Of course, I was not meaning to say otherwise. I was mainly wanting to comment in regards to statements like "their selfish", "their hateful", etc.. I feel those are words regarding the heart and we cannot make those judgements, even within the bounds of the church. We can say "their actions or their words came across as hateful, and/or selfish but we don't know their heart. There is many a time where something sounds right in my head but as soon as it comes out of my mouth it does not work as I heard it in my head. Then to have someone accuse me of being hateful or selfish is unfair, because in my heart that is not what was intended at all. I think we can all play life perfectly from our couches and our computers, but when we're out there in the middle of it, it's not so easy.

??goodness who accused you of such things ... thats rather hateful of them .. ouhh wait ... hmm haha dilemma noted)

haha

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

??goodness who accused you of such things ... thats rather hateful of them .. ouhh wait ... hmm haha dilemma noted)

haha

Well, maybe those were not the right references to use but you know what I mean I'm thinking more of the different preachers that people don't like. Things like, "their scum", "their going to hell", "he's an idiot", "she's stupid", stuff like that. Those are "judgement calls" and no on has the right to judge. I've been guilty of these words myself, but I don't know the persons heart. This thread even, some thought you were attacking the heart of the bakers but you were not. I think they probably wanted to do the right thing in the right way but errors were made and errors beget errors. It happens. So what can be learned?

 

[Alithis]

Well, maybe those were not the right references to use but you know what I mean I'm thinking more of the different preachers that people don't like. Things like, "their scum", "their going to hell", "he's an idiot", "she's stupid", stuff like that. Those are "judgement calls" and no on has the right to judge. I've been guilty of these words myself, but I don't know the persons heart. This thread even, some thought you were attacking the heart of the bakers but you were not. I think they probably wanted to do the right thing in the right way but errors were made and errors beget errors. It happens. So what can be learned?

ouhh yes ..i get you mow .

those are "railing " ..and in direct opposition the the scriptures telling us not to speak unedifying things .
the way we should speak if we must is with humility and respect treating others as we would be treated ourselves ...
people who uses such terms as "their scum", "their going to hell", "he's an idiot", "she's stupid", stuff like that. must repent of doing so .

 

[Aldebaran]

ouhh yes ..i get you mow .

those are "railing " ..and in direct opposition the the scriptures telling us not to speak unedifying things .
the way we should speak if we must is with humility and respect treating others as we would be treated ourselves ...
people who uses such terms as "their scum", "their going to hell", "he's an idiot", "she's stupid", stuff like that. must repent of doing so .

If the people who are committing such sins insist that we also commit them, are we to go along with them, or do we refuse to do so in order to remain obedient?

 

[Alithis]

If the people who are committing such sins insist that we also commit them, are we to go along with them, or do we refuse to do so in order to remain obedient?

people who uses such terms as "their scum", "their going to hell", "he's an idiot", "she's stupid", stuff like that.... are already committing sins in missing the mark themselves .the sin of another is not more condemned by using sin to point it out to them.

read the books of Samuel and kings .. David did not rail against Saul. and never raised his hand against him.. he learned perseverance and entered into the rightful position of king some 30+ years later . we do well to be patient and take things to the lord in prayer and WAIT for him.. we never achieve godliness by taking things into our own hands.
that is using carnal warfare.. not spiritual . humble yourself before the lord and HE will lift us up .. not us .