Cain and Calvinism

[Clare73]

You know what I mean. You only say the word voluntarily, because you feel God molds the will of certain elect ones to believe, and blinds the rest. It is not genuine free will, where a person due to their acceptance of God, and His way obtains salvation.

According to free will as it is presented in Scripture, post #38 is the Biblical definition of free will.
How is the person not freely, willingly and voluntarily accepting God and his way without any force in that definition?

 

[FutureAndAHope]

According to free will as it is presented in Scripture, post #38 is the Biblical definition of free will.
How is the person not freely, willingly and voluntarily accepting God and his way without any force in that definition?

No it is not biblical, your free will is presented in one or two scriptures, not the bulk of scripture. You twist what free will means. The Bible is clear that God extends His grace to all men, but you reason away the clear meaning of scripture, to fit a God-abasing doctrine of Predestination. Free will according to scripture is as follows, God extends His goodwill to all men, but not all men receive Him.

1Ti 2:4-6 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,

 

[Brightfame52]

You mention Romans 8:8, but that must be read in the context of Romans 7. Where Paul is speaking of the unregenerated nature, the fact we are sold under sin. It tells us clearly the natural man can delight in God's words when he/she hears them. But that the flesh overpowers us. This shows us that man can respond to things such as faith, and even try to be obedient, which is what Jesus said leads to enlightenment.

John 14:22-24 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, "Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?" Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.


Rom 7:14-23 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Rom 8:7-8 applies to the unregenerate.

 

[Clare73]

No it is not biblical, your free will is presented in one or two scriptures, not the bulk of scripture. You twist what free will means. The Bible is clear that God extends His grace to all men, but you reason away the clear meaning of scripture, to fit a God-abasing doctrine of Predestination. Free will according to scripture is as follows, God extends His goodwill to all men, but not all men receive Him.

None of which is a refutation of the Biblical presentation of free will.

The Bible does not present me as having a free will which can make all choices. . .I cannot choose to be sinless.

 

[Bobber]

If you do well, will you not be accepted?

Firstly the scripture says "IF", if is a choice. It is one of two things, one of two pathways. If what? "you do well", what does "do well" mean, in the context of scripture, and just plain English, it means if he acts rightly, righteously, in the right way. What will happen? "he will be accepted" (in the same way as Able).


And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.

What is the second part of the "IF" the negative "IF", it is if he does not act rightly, sin lies at the door, sin waits for him. The devil is waiting for him to sin, so he can take control. The devil desires him, sin pulls at him. But God said "you should rule over it", and gain mastery over it.

Truly the story and account of Cain blows Calvinistic thinking right out of the water. One could say the first few chapters of Genesis settles the issue and one shouldn't have to even look at other scripturas. When the answer is right there it's right there (the Cain story) but men want to run off and talk about a thousand and other different things.

 

[Brightfame52]

Truly the story and account of Cain blows Calvinistic thinking right out of the water. One could say the first few chapters of Genesis settles the issue and one shouldn't have to even look at other scripturas. When the answer is right there it's right there (the Cain story) but men want to run off and talk about a thousand and other different things.

Thing is cain couldnt do well. Just like when Jesus told the rich young ruler if he kept the commandments he could enter into eternal life. Jesus knew he couldnt do that, and God knew that cain a fallen dead sinner could not do well. Rom 3 applied to cain Rom 3:10-12

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

And thats what doing well means in Gen 4:7 to do good, to be good.

The only way one can be accepted of God is in the beloved Eph 1:6

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

So if you think cain could do well to get saved, you believe in law keeping/work salvation and have no thoughts on Christ !

 

[Bobber]

Thing is cain couldnt do well.

Then you're left hopelessly with a God which clearly insinuate he could. What loving God or parent would ever say to their offspring, (let give an example) if you clean your room you can go out tonight. He told Cain if you do well you'll be accepted.

Just like when Jesus told the rich young ruler if he kept the commandments he could enter into eternal life.

None of that had to do with keeping the moral law in perfection. It had to do with doing everything a Jew could do in living a holy life but also having faith in the Passover lamb which they shed once a year. Those are the things he could have done .