Caiaphas Quit?

[Hix]

I pose a question to anyone who believes animal sacrifice is done away with, such as Palatka. Why does Ezekial spend 9 chapters explaining how it will be restored in full in the end times?

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

 

[simchat_torah]

Back to the point of the thread...

Caiaphas did not quit, but instead was responding according to Jewish Halacha (oral law) by tearing his priestly garments when someone spoke the name of G-d in his presence.

Do you think he was disregarding the halacha of the day, or was he not bound to it himself?

your opinions?

 

[Charlesinflorida]

This encounter several statements have already been made which affirm that Paul was still a Torah observant Jew in every way. Further he is being directed by other Messianics of the Jerusalem council to procede in this sacrifice to prove to the crowd that which was already known to be true, that they were all still obedeint to the law.

Moreover in reference to the coming Passover Paul tells he Gentile believers, I Cor 5: For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: [8] Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

CIF

 

[simchat_torah]

Looks like we all posted at about the same time, so I suppose we will remain off topic for awhile...

Well did Paul accomplish the sacrifice?

Point in fact, when you go to the temple, you are not the one to sacrafice the animal. The priest is. Paul had already paid for the sacrafice, and in fact he paid for four other men to have their sacrafices done there as well (fyi... this was the ritual sacrafice made before the beginning of a Nazarite vow). He was simply arrested within the walls of temple. He wasn't the one actually doing the sacrafice, the priest was. He had already paid for the sacrafice and was there merely to observe it taking place.

Was he not interrupted?

Again, not really since he wasn't the one to make the sacrafice. He already paid for it. He was simply arrested within the temple walls.

Did not the passage state that the temple doors were shut?

It certainly doesn't say that the "Holy Spirit" shut the doors. That would be Isogesis. It says many people rushed in from the city, grabbed him, and the doors were shut. It in no way even implies that G-d shut the doors. This is Isogesis to the extreme, sorry.

Shalom,
yafet

 

[Higher Truth]

Simchat:

Henaynei hit the nail right on the head.

There are many common Euphemisms in the Aramaic and Greek that represent the Tetragramatron. It was forbidden to write out the name in common dialogue. Only when referencing scripture was one allowed to write out the Tetragramatron, and only then if special precautions were taken.

HT:

If I remember correctly, in the later editions of the septuagint, the Tetregrammaton was written in Greek as Kurios. In the earlier versions, it was written in Hebrew. Why was this not done in the NT passage that you are referring to?

 

[Higher Truth]

Simchat:

Point in fact, when you go to the temple, you are not the one to sacrafice the animal. The priest is. Paul had already paid for the sacrafice, and in fact he paid for four other men to have their sacrafices done there as well (fyi... this was the ritual sacrafice made before the beginning of a Nazarite vow). He was simply arrested within the walls of temple. He wasn't the one actually doing the sacrafice, the priest was. He had already paid for the sacrafice and was there merely to observe it taking place.

HT:

Paul and his group was nearly two days short in completing the process for the others. He had finished his vow prior in another place according to the Scriptures.

 

[simchat_torah]

Paul and his group was nearly two days short in completing the process for the others.

How do you figure? Are you using 'fuzzy math' again HT?

Acts 21:

26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day, having been purified with them, entered the temple to announce the expiration of the days of purification, at which time an offering should be made for each one of them.
27 Now when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews from Asia, seeing him in the temple, stirred up the whole crowd and laid hands on him

 

[simchat_torah]

If I remember correctly, in the later editions of the septuagint, the Tetregrammaton was written in Greek as Kurios. In the earlier versions, it was written in Hebrew. Why was this not done in the NT passage that you are referring to?

I will get to this later, I'm heading out the door with the wifey at the moment to finish up some grocery shopping.

shalom,
yafet

 

[simchat_torah]

Why does Ezekial spend 9 chapters explaining how it will be restored in full in the end times?

Exactly. Why is there a third temple built? Why are sacrafices made during the millenial kingdom? etc etc etc...

 

[Higher Truth]

simchat:

How do you figure? Are you using 'fuzzy math' again HT?

HT:

Didn't have the scripts in front of me, and pulled it off the top of my head. Sacrifice was done on the eighth day. They did not complete..........no sacrifice.

Key words: ALMOST completed

The priests were very specific about ritual and sacrifice. Looks like El pulled the plug on that one....just like he did with Isaac.

 

[Higher Truth]

Simchat:

Exactly. Why is there a third temple built? Why are sacrafices made during the millenial kingdom? etc etc etc...

HT:

So who will direct these sacrifices to be done?

 

[Hix]

The uh....Priests?

You know I read and saw photos recently of a training camp in Eretz Yisrael were they are teaching Kohanim how to be Priests according to Torah in wait for when the Third Temple comes. Interesting since animal sacrifice is aparently "done away with"

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

 

[Henaynei]

Simchat:

Exactly. Why is there a third temple built? Why are sacrafices made during the millenial kingdom? etc etc etc...

HT:

So who will direct these sacrifices to be done?

Scripture specifies that one sign of the Anti-Messiah is that he will command that the sacrifices in the Temple stop. For that to happen they have to have started sacrifices up again and have built the Temple. Elsewhere scriptrue states that there will be acceptable sacrifices in the times before the end.

 

[Charlesinflorida]

Scripture specifies that one sign of the Anti-Messiah is that he will command that the sacrifices in the Temple stop. For that to happen they have to have started sacrifices up again and have built the Temple. Elsewhere scriptrue states that there will be acceptable sacrifices in the times before the end.

Sorry to continue off topic. I have looked at this in another way. I believe it has merit. First we must remember hat the Tribulation is (according to the revelation to Daniel as well as to John) 1290 days or about 3 1/2 years not seven. There are two signs given to Daniel that would precede the begining of this tribulation; The sacrifice whould be ended, and the abomination that make desolate. These signs beign in the middle of a week of years, the 70th week of Daniel 9. The 69th points to the comming of Messiah his birth not his death.

The first half of the 70th is the ministry of Messiah. With his death and resurrecion the need for sacrifice is ended until the Millennial Kingdom. So the fist of the two signs occured at the middle of the 70th week. We wait now for the abomination, which will signal the beginning of the second half of that 70th week. It was cut in the middle and held for these 2000 years.

Part of the confusion here is that it says that there will be "an abomination on a wing of the temple". This is not an accurate reading from the Hebrew and is an English translation "assumption." In fact the word "Temple does not appear in the text at all. What is says really is (Please excuse my memory here) "And on a wing, abomination until the consumation, desolation is poured out . . ."
In Hebrew the word for "Wing" is "Kanaph" which is also is used for "Wind" and in this setting means, "Abominations will come sudenly, like the burst of wind from a birds wing." This understanding is parellel to other verses which say, "And destruction will come as a flood" (A Flash flood is what is refered to" The point is, the verse "on a wing of the temple" really means suddenly and without warning, like a rushing wind"

So the botom line=
Messiah is the one who put an end to sacrifices (for a time) in the middle of the 70th week, and that was the first of two signs that will happen before the tibulation of the end times begins. The other sign will be when the abomination (Antichrist), rushes against them with sudden and unexpected destruction. The only qualifier here is that the Jews have to be in posession of Jerusalem, which happened in 1967.

Because this is off topic I will copy it over and start a new thread for comments. Please coment there.

CIF

 

[Rafael]

Henaynei hit the nail right on the head.

There are many common Euphemisms in the Aramaic and Greek that represent the Tetragramatron. It was forbidden to write out the name in common dialogue. Only when referencing scripture was one allowed to write out the Tetragramatron, and only then if special precautions were taken.

Shalom,
yafet

Was this the same tetregrammatron nailed above Jesus' head in Latin, Greek, and Hebrew? If so, the Holy Spirit made note of it in scripture for us today. Thanks for the information about it being a blasphemy to do so.

 

[simchat_torah]

Was this the same tetregrammatron nailed above Jesus' head in Latin, Greek, and Hebrew?

No.

Nailed above the head of the messiah was: King of the Jews.

The Tetragramatron is the four letter name of G-d... Yahweh, Yaveh, or YHVH (depending on which pronounciation you prefer).

shalom,
yafet

 

[Higher Truth]

Simchat:

Exactly. Why is there a third temple built? Why are sacrafices made during the millenial kingdom? etc etc etc...

HT:

So who will direct these sacrifices to be done?

Henny:
Scripture specifies that one sign of the Anti-Messiah is that he will command that the sacrifices in the Temple stop. For that to happen they have to have started sacrifices up again and have built the Temple. Elsewhere scriptrue states that there will be acceptable sacrifices in the times before the end.

HT:

Once again, who will direct these sacrifices to occur, and will believers be involved?

 

[Henaynei]

HT: Once again, who will direct these sacrifices to occur, and will believers be involved?

It will be the Jewish Levitical Priesthood, and yes, I believe that Messianic Jewish believers, at the very least, will be involved. The non-believing Jewish people will be looking forward, through the sacrifices, toward Messiah's redemption, the believing Jewish people will be looking back, through the sacrifices, toward Messiah's redemption.

In fact, this [participation in the sacrifices] may be what causes nominial Christianity to finally turn totally against the Messianic believers.

 

[simchat_torah]

In fact, this [participation in the sacrifices] may be what causes nominial Christianity to finally turn totally against the Messianic believers.

hmmm... scary.

 

[Henaynei]

hmmm... scary.

Ach! You're young and could stand a decent scare or two - it will give your hair that dashing "wisdom" look with that handsome flush of gray!!!