Bye

[JewishHeart]

I'm very saddened by this forum, so I am leaving to do the work of God and spend less time on the computer.

 

[emdd]

Too much of this has also saddened me a little, I admit.

 

[Hix]

If this is your descision then so be it, Im sorry that other peoples opinions sadden you to the point that you feel you have to leave. As I recall we werent even discussing anything that would have upset you till you brought it up in a thread relating to Yeshua and the Essenes.

No matter where you go you will always find people that disagree with you, I think thats one lesson in life that you need to accept. Im sure when yeshua returns he will tell us all the one truth, untill then people interperate it differently since we are human.

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

 

[JewishHeart]

I respect you as a person, but have to leave because as a messianic I do not want to associate myself with those who seperate themselves from the christians. I have a calling both to the church and to the messianic community, but when the messianic community goes overboard in its relationship to the church, I choose to associate myself with a more balanced messianic community.

Not only this, but the hours that I poured my heart out about the balance that is needed ( which I believe I received from the Holy Spirit) could have been used to help more people in Israel. If it was God, then it doesn't matter, but its my time to leave.

I leave with a lesson on Shabatt

 

[WildCelt]

JewishHeart, there is no question in my mind some replies you get to the things you post seem unusually harsh, or at least intolerant, and I don't quite understand that myself.

Hix is correct, however. People can (respectfully) disagree around here, and that should not prompt any to feel they are not wanted. I don't believe for a minute there is a credo around here that must be ascribed by all down to the letter. There are vast differences of opinion here, but the I believe the goal for all here is the same--a closer walk with OUR G-d.

If you feel you must "separate" yourself from those who "separate" themselves with the mainstream Christian church, well that is of course your perogative. I would, however, encourage you to stick around. I have learned much from your posts, and think your perspective among all the others helps lend balance.

Shalom

 

[simchat_torah]

I respect you as a person, but have to leave because as a messianic I do not want to associate myself with those who seperate themselves from the christians.

The Messianic Movement is made up largely of people who were disillusioned by the "church" and have found a pure walk and calling. They do not want to retreat back to the old ways. This does not mean we disrespect christians, or even mock them. However, it does not mean, at the same time, that we will negate the truth and pretend everything is still kosher over in that camp. Many have left for a reason.

I will not balk at christians and say stupid things about that that are unnecessarily hurtful. However, I'm not going to pretend that they are "on point" either. I will continue to declare truth. I am saddened JH that you choose to hide the truth.




Shalom,
yafet

 

[simchat_torah]

Shalom WildCelt,

JewishHeart, there is no question in my mind some replies you get to the things you post seem unusually harsh, or at least intolerant, and I don't quite understand that myself.

I suppose this may be because you have missed out on some of the history behind Jewish Heart and this forum. He originally came in and declared many of us heretics and came in swinging. Of course this put a lot of the forum on the defensive. Had he come with a different heart, we might have received him a bit better.

now you know

shalom,
yafet

 

[ShirChadash]

I respect you as a person, but have to leave because as a messianic I do not want to associate myself with those who seperate themselves from the christians. I have a calling both to the church and to the messianic community, but when the messianic community goes overboard in its relationship to the church, I choose to associate myself with a more balanced messianic community.

Not only this, but the hours that I poured my heart out about the balance that is needed ( which I believe I received from the Holy Spirit) could have been used to help more people in Israel. If it was God, then it doesn't matter, but its my time to leave.

I leave with a lesson on Shabatt

yes, yes, we all separate ourselves from the Christians. Yep, sure. Once again, your ASSUMPTIONS are way off base. Do you realize how many of us here attend Christian denominational or non-denominational churches while still embracing the Way of the Word in Yeshua?

You simply refuse to see that you CANNOT possibly know how "balanced" people may or may not actually be, based upon what they choose to focus their posts on, on an Internet Message Board. The very few here who MIGHT be quite separatist are certainly not the vast majority, yet you continue to not only hold your preconceived notions but barrage the rest of us on this board with your thinly-veiled and not-so-thinly-veiled, patronizing posts about how people here are so "unbalanced." I wrote this to you on an entirely different thread, and I'm going to pull it up in here, as I highly doubt you read it way back when I wrote it:

I have said this before... no one can know from what anyone posts on a message board the entire ins and outs and the fullness of his faith. Those who are here who post mainly in support of observance may have the deepest of committment to Yeshua, His grace and love and Hesed mercy and just because they choose to post more commonly on observance does not MEAN they concentrate more on the minors of the calling than on the Major of the Caller. To keep asserting so is juvenile and ignorant and offensive. It's no different than for anyone to claim that a person who posts often on the freedom they have in Yeshua has too little concern for following Yeshua and living as He lived.

NO one can KNOW the full ins and outs of ANYONE's faith life by what they tend to FOCUS ON more in discussion on a message board! Tell ya what... I am an incredible theologian. I am -- it's not a pride thing, it's a fact thing... I was well-trained and I have used my abilities ad nauseam and I have wasted countless hours researching, delving in, following up, arguing, defending, apologizing my faith, on and on. So here I am now, on CF, and while I read a lot here, I don't comment a lot on the more heady-threads, but rather take it to quiet prayer and study, and then I discard what I cannot use or find errant. I don't have much of a need anymore to tell others what to think and how to think it, what to say and how to say it better, what to believe and how to practice it. Much much more of the time here, you will find my jokes and laughter in my posts. Does this mean I am a shallow person? (oh my, if anyone thinks so, you cannot imagine the reactions on the faces of those who know me if you were to assert such a thing). Does this mean I cannot hold my own in a theological discussion, nor argue my POV? (hee heee. I won't go there.) NO. My lack of involvement in such discussions HERE mean none of those things. And yet, what YOU all see here is all you have to go by in "knowing" me. And if you were to guess about me and who I am, where I stand on matters of faith, all things in my life simply based on the few things I have chosen to write here... you would be sadly lacking in understanding and depth.

I'm tired of people here thinking that they can take other posters' spiritual temperature and know where they stand and the depth of their grasp on their whole faith-walk, just based on the things they choose to commonly address and post on. KNOCK IT OFF ALREADY and grow up.


And the reallllllly sad thing is, JH, my DH and I too have a calling to be part of that bridge... both to the Jewish brethren my heart loves and cries for, and the Christian brethren my heart loves and cries for. We have been convinced in our hearts we are to preach the Fulfillment of the One True Faith G-d handed down -- Yeshua -- to unbelievers... and the FOundation of the One True Faith of G-d -- Torah teaching -- to believers. No "Christian" and "Non-Christian", "Jew", "Gentile" respecting of persons. And do you see me here bludgeoning about telling everyone just where I think their shortcomings are??? Have a tiny teeny itsy-bitsy amount of faith that G-D will do what He will do in the hearts of all who visit with you here, and in your real life and you will do far more for the Kingdom.

Philippians 1:6
being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ

 

[iitb]

Having been burned by this before, I make it a point to not beg people to stay, but I do have something to say here...

I respect you as a person, but have to leave because as a messianic I do not want to associate myself with those who seperate themselves from the christians. I have a calling both to the church and to the messianic community, but when the messianic community goes overboard in its relationship to the church, I choose to associate myself with a more balanced messianic community.

1) Had you actually been paying attention instead of assaulting others with your opinions, you would see that the staff is trying to make this forum more welcoming to non-Messianics. Your approach has actually been counter-productive to this goal.

2) Most people who come to this forum are new to MJ, and simply want to learn more. That doesn't mean they are isolating themselves from anybody, it simply means they want to learn about MJ from Messianics.

3) You have a tendency to lump us all into one group based solely on the opinions of those you disagree with. That, my friend, annoys pretty much everybody here.

4) Ask Plan 9, Quaffer, PeterPaul, and Christy4Christ how far out of our way we go to isolate ourselves.

5) Your approach in dealing with us is all wrong. You cannot force anyone to agree with you, either they will or they won't. As grandma alsways said, you attract more flies with honey than with vinegar (although she could never answer my question of, "who would want to attract flies in the first place?" )

Anyway, I understand if you feel like you have to leave, but realize that you are still welcome here.

 

[Plan 9]

I was invited ti visit by a member of this forum who knows I am a Gentile Christin; a United Methodist. I have been made so entirely welcome by the members of this forum, all of whom know me to be a Gentile Christian that I never left. Instead I set up camp here. As far as I can tell, I have been allowed complete freedom to post, and even to disagree, as long as I do so in a polite and friendly way. I see other Gentile Christians of different denominations here doing the same, and being treated in the same friendly and welcoming manner.
JH, if there was ever such a problem in this forum, it no longer exists, and must not have for some time.
I will be the first to agree that many Gentile Christians do and believe some hurtful things, often not on purpose. I don't find this behavior acceptable as a Gentile Christian, and I can see no reason why any follower of Messianic Judaism should do so, when I don't.

 

[Toney]

I will be the first to agree that many Gentile Christians do and believe some hurtful things, often not on purpose. I don't find this behavior acceptable as a Gentile Christian, and I can see no reason why any follower of Messianic Judaism should do so, when I don't.

Ditto to your post, Plan 9, and thank you for alluding to the Golden Rule. It might do well to remember from time to time that Rabbi Hillel taught it. In fact, he even proclaimed that it was the whole Torah and everything else was commentary.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I too have felt very welcome here. I am flying the Messianic icon but I am still a Gentile who at moment attends a Christian church. I have spent a Shabbat and Passover at the home of Henaynei and her husband and found them to be quite hospitable, loving, and giving toward me.

There is still a lot I don't understand and in seeing Simchat, Juston, and/or Henaynei on line have intruded in their AIM space to ask questions. They have always been willing to answer. I have never felt excluded from them. Thanks ya'll.

 

[Yael]

I am a bit lost with all these, for lack of a better word, categories. Could someone explain how you all see your divisions? Or is there a thread that addresses this?

I have only been aware of Christians, Jewish believers in Christ who affiliated with either a regular congreation or with messianic congregations that may or may not include Gentile believers.

Yael

 

[Henaynei]

I am a bit lost with all these, for lack of a better word, categories. Could someone explain how you all see your divisions? Or is there a thread that addresses this?

I have only been aware of Christians, Jewish believers in Christ who affiliated with either a regular congreation or with messianic congregations that may or may not include Gentile believers.

Yael

Yes, Yael, there is
I invite you to browse our Messianic Jewish FAQ There is quite a bit there, Justin has done a lot of hard work!! Remember it is a growing work in progress!! Enjoy!!

After reading it feel free to ask even more questions!!!!

 

[Yael]

Well, I have took a look at it. It explains enough. I would have to point out, respectfully, that mainstream Judaism does not see messanic Judaism as falling under their umbrella. It raises alot of hostility, which I am sure you are all aware of.

I have seen that here in my community. We had a messianic congregation advertise their high holiday services in the local Jewish press. They did not identify themselves as being messanic. The advertisement went through without the paper staff realizing it. It caused quite a fracus. The end result was alot of angry people. I think the congregation, or whoever was in charge of advertising this, in the end did themselves and their affilation alot of damage.

The other thing I don't quite get, is how someone would feel or consider the need to convert to Judiasm while retaining a belief in Jesus. It seems rather disengenous from my understanding.

I truly appreciate the opportunity to ask these questions. I have always been curious about the draw of gentiles to Judaism.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Well, I have took a look at it. It explains enough. I would have to point out, respectfully, that mainstream Judaism does not see messanic Judaism as falling under their umbrella. It raises alot of hostility, which I am sure you are all aware of.

I have seen that here in my community. We had a messianic congregation advertise their high holiday services in the local Jewish press. They did not identify themselves as being messanic. The advertisement went through without the paper staff realizing it. It caused quite a fracus. The end result was alot of angry people. I think the congregation, or whoever was in charge of advertising this, in the end did themselves and their affilation alot of damage.

The other thing I don't quite get, is how someone would feel or consider the need to convert to Judiasm while retaining a belief in Jesus. It seems rather disengenous from my understanding.

I truly appreciate the opportunity to ask these questions. I have always been curious about the draw of gentiles to Judaism.

The draw that I have to Judaism is that it was the "faith" of my Savior. I don't know if I will be attacked by other Gentiles or not for saying this, but I don't believe Jesus (Yeshua) started a new religion called Christianity. He was a Jewish Rabbi. He fully kept Torah.

I believe that all of His disciples did too. And, they were instructing the Gentiles coming into the faith to follow Torah. How much so I'm not sure, but I know there was some instruction to follow Torah even as Gentiles.

It is my understanding that the Gentile believers in Antioch were the first one's to be "called" Christians. It was a derogatory title. It was not until Constantine, that the Roman church took on the "religious title" and declaired all of Rome to be it. Until then. . .the Jewish believers in Yeshua and the Gentile believers in Yeshua worshipped together. . .and I believe the Jewish believers in Yeshua were teaching the Gentile believers in Yeshua to keep certain parts of Torah.

God said He would have a people who would have His laws not just written on tablets of stone but they would be written on their hearts. All that Paul and Peter, and James, and John and all the others wrote were testiment to that.

As I learn more about Judaism I am seeing that much of Torah is written on my heart because I have been instinctively living many of the laws of Torah out of fellowshipping with God and my love for Him and desire to be pleasing to Him.

Just as Abraham's faith in God was accounted unto him as "righteousness", so, to the Gentile. We can only be saved by our faith, yet when His laws are written on our hearts then, as James put it, we show our faith by our works (James 2:17, 18).

I don't know that that really answers your questions but it's where I'm coming from anyway.

Quaffer

 

[visionary]

Well, I have took a look at it. It explains enough. I would have to point out, respectfully, that mainstream Judaism does not see messanic Judaism as falling under their umbrella. It raises alot of hostility, which I am sure you are all aware of.

I have seen that here in my community. We had a messianic congregation advertise their high holiday services in the local Jewish press. They did not identify themselves as being messanic. The advertisement went through without the paper staff realizing it. It caused quite a fracus. The end result was alot of angry people. I think the congregation, or whoever was in charge of advertising this, in the end did themselves and their affilation alot of damage.

The other thing I don't quite get, is how someone would feel or consider the need to convert to Judiasm while retaining a belief in Jesus. It seems rather disengenous from my understanding.

I truly appreciate the opportunity to ask these questions. I have always been curious about the draw of gentiles to Judaism.

The draw of gentiles to Judaism.......
Let me count the ways.

To worship the Father in Truth, worship him who created the heavens and the earth and all that is in it.
To understand the ceremonial feasts as they relate to Yeshua
To understand the prophecies as they relate to the ceremonial feasts To learn of the ways that God wants me to live for a lifestyle and why
To understand the Word of God through the eyes of those that have Jewish mind and have a better understanding of what the prophets and apostles were trying to convey
To be with those that keep the commandments and have the testimony of Yeshua, where the blessing and the right to the tree of life are given to
To be part of the vine where Yeshua said we are to be grafted in
To receive the spiritual blessings that comes with associating and standing the root of this faith, the branches, and the fruit of this vine. ....
and those are just a few of the things I can think of...on why I am here.

Visionary

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

The draw of gentiles to Judaism.......
Let me count the ways.

To worship the Father in Truth, worship him who created the heavens and the earth and all that is in it.
To understand the ceremonial feasts as they relate to Yeshua
To understand the prophecies as they relate to the ceremonial feasts To learn of the ways that God wants me to live for a lifestyle and why
To understand the Word of God through the eyes of those that have Jewish mind and have a better understanding of what the prophets and apostles were trying to convey
To be with those that keep the commandments and have the testimony of Yeshua, where the blessing and the right to the tree of life are given to
To be part of the vine where Yeshua said we are to be grafted in
To receive the spiritual blessings that comes with associating and standing the root of this faith, the branches, and the fruit of this vine. ....
and those are just a few of the things I can think of...on why I am here.

Visionary

Ooooh, I agree with those too

 

[Flavius]

I'm very saddened by this forum, so I am leaving to do the work of God and spend less time on the computer.

Jewish heart,Please accept my apoligy as if you were my own mother.

My mom has a prison ministry and builds houses in Romania,She spends money instead of making money,When I was growing up there was always 30 people in my house because my mom took in everyone.Last couple of years me and my mom had a falling out because I became Messianic aand she is still Christian.All this time I have felt hauty about my Mom, I have told her the truth over and over and think myself better than her.

In the end all that can be said is that my mom has loved Israel and she loves yeshuah, she calls him Jesus and still goes to christ-mass dinners because she loves family,she recently went to easter dinner and I made her feel very uncomfortable because I hate Easter and I have very many Issues about it. But in the end what will be the outcome?

On one hand I feel justified but then I remember I'm just a drunk and found wanting.

Then we have my mom who cares for everyone and sacrifices her time and money for those who are in jail ,downtrodin,She always does the right thing and always helps anyone who needs help.

Christian and Messianics have a diffrence, Messianics do the sabboth and they do Passover,feast of weeks and Sukkot.Christians on the other hand have diffrent dates. The lord loves Justice.I think my mom is wrong in some of the things she does as a christian but here am I the all knowing all seeing great Flavius.I can speak all day of the authors I've read but when it comes down to it. My mom will shame me and for that I feel guilty and now apoligies to you because I am one of those persons who cause greif between christians and Messianics.I try really hard not to mention the word Paganism or Constantine,but there I am everyday telling somebody about it.I don't mean to cause a rift but there I am because I take Passover very seriously.I do have a Passover lamb but for all it's worth,I have hurt the feelings of many people and I regret that.I just take celebrations very seriously.

 

[Christy4Christ]

Jewish heart,Please accept my apoligy as if you were my own mother.

My mom has a prison ministry and builds houses in Romania,She spends money instead of making money,When I was growing up there was always 30 people in my house because my mom took in everyone.Last couple of years me and my mom had a falling out because I became Messianic aand she is still Christian.All this time I have felt hauty about my Mom, I have told her the truth over and over and think myself better than her.

In the end all that can be said is that my mom has loved Israel and she loves yeshuah, she calls him Jesus and still goes to christ-mass dinners because she loves family,she recently went to easter dinner and I made her feel very uncomfortable because I hate Easter and I have very many Issues about it. But in the end what will be the outcome?

On one hand I feel justified but then I remember I'm just a drunk and found wanting.

Then we have my mom who cares for everyone and sacrifices her time and money for those who are in jail ,downtrodin,She always does the right thing and always helps anyone who needs help.

Christian and Messianics have a diffrence, Messianics do the sabboth and they do Passover,feast of weeks and Sukkot.Christians on the other hand have diffrent dates. The lord loves Justice.I think my mom is wrong in some of the things she does as a christian but here am I the all knowing all seeing great Flavius.I can speak all day of the authors I've read but when it comes down to it. My mom will shame me and for that I feel guilty and now apoligies to you because I am one of those persons who cause greif between christians and Messianics.I try really hard not to mention the word Paganism or Constantine,but there I am everyday telling somebody about it.I don't mean to cause a rift but there I am because I take Passover very seriously.I do have a Passover lamb but for all it's worth,I have hurt the feelings of many people and I regret that.I just take celebrations very seriously.

It sounds like you have a lovely mother. I hope she is the next one to hear these words from you. I bet it will mean the world to her