Bye

[Plan 9]

The other thing I don't quite get, is how someone would feel or consider the need to convert to Judiasm while retaining a belief in Jesus. It seems rather disengenous from my understanding.

I truly appreciate the opportunity to ask these questions. I have always been curious about the draw of gentiles to Judaism.

Yael, the faith of Yeshua was Judaism, and the Torah and your other holy books are the largest part of our Bible (including the story of Yael, one of my very favorites).

To me, it would be it would not only be disingenous, but foolish for Gentile Christians not to at least desire to be as knowlegeable as possible about Judaism. Yeshua's mother and father raised him to be a good Jewish boy (although I have no problem accepting that that most Jews feel he was deluded, none I know who have read the gospels have told me that he departed from Judaism, or that he didn't appear to them to be be trying his best to be a good Jew.)
Since Yeshua was Jewish and we follow him, it behooves us to at least cinsider the possibility that converting to Judaism might be a part of that.
When teaching about the right worship of G-d, he quotes both the Torah and Hillel, yet most Gentile Christians know little about the Torah (although many believe they do) and the vast majority know nothing of Hillel; some have never heard of him at all.

I hope this post has mostly made sense, and isn't filled with too many typos and mispellings, Yael: your honest question deserves the clearest answer I can give you regarding my motives for being here, but I'm unwell today. My apologies, if I have failed to answer it well.

 

[Flavius]

On the news the other day this couple went to see that movie The Passion,later when they got home they argured about the trinity and both of them had to be hospitalized after the fight they had.People can get very serious about thier faith and sometimes it's really stupid isn't it? Me and my Mom have made up over these issues,we resolved not to discuss religion.

:o But really she still talks about it all the time,I just never say what I really feel about it anymore.I used to preach in the prisons and her and my sister would sing,but when I stopped speaking in toungues that was the last straw for her.oh well,We just agreed to disagree and go on about our lives.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

On the news the other day this couple went to see that movie The Passion,later when they got home they argured about the trinity and both of them had to be hospitalized after the fight they had.People can get very serious about thier faith and sometimes it's really stupid isn't it? Me and my Mom have made up over these issues,we resolved not to discuss religion.

:o But really she still talks about it all the time,I just never say what I really feel about it anymore.I used to preach in the prisons and her and my sister would sing,but when I stopped speaking in toungues that was the last straw for her.oh well,We just agreed to disagree and go on about our lives.

What does not speaking in tongues have to do with seeking Yeshua?

 

[Henaynei]

What does not speaking in tongues have to do with seeking Yeshua?

What does speaking or not speaking in tongues have to do with seeking Yeshua??

Well, there are those on both sides of that question who strongly feel that only if you are on their side are you truly seeking Yeshua.

There are just as many charismatics that believe that you *must* speak in tongues to truly follow G-d as non-charismatics that believe that if you speak in tongues you *can't* be following G-d. They are both wrong.

 

[ShirChadash]

Sigh... I'm so so so tired of people trying to take other people's spiritual temperature and declaring that one MUST be/do/think/say/believe/understand what they believe exactly as *I* do (or someone else does) in order to be right with G-d. Why are we such a people of so little faith...



editing to add, in case it didn't come out in my post... I agree with Henny, as usual. I was just adding my thoughts too.

 

[Henaynei]

Why are we such a people of so little faith...

Because we are, after all, but grass - stiff-necked grass, but grass nontheless....... <wry smile>

 

[Yael]

Well, sevenof nines, I guess I just can't get that part that someone would think to convert to Judaism while retaining a belief in Jesus. In my thinking it would be a dishonesty to both the person and to G-d. I am just stating my opinion on the matter and nothing more.

I can understand the interest and draw to Judaism. It is inside of me also.

 

[Flavius]

What does not speaking in tongues have to do with seeking Yeshua?

I grew up charasmatic and speaking in toungues was a big thing.When i began studying the Moed's I percieved that my toungues that I had spoken for 20 years were not of G-d.
To my mom speaking in toungues is a very big deal,It prooves you have the holy spirit.To say that you no longer believe in speaking in toungues means to my mom that you are blaspheming the holy spirit wich is a big deal .So it became a very big deal in our relationship.
My mother is an evangalist and she has very many churches that she preaches at.
In pensacola Fla.there was a thing going on there with slain in the spirit.My mom got very involved in this movement and she has many churches that believe in her whole heartedly.I used to minister with her and on several occasions we walked into churches and without saying a word people would fall slain in the spirit at just our presence.All she had to do was point a finger at sum1 and they became slain in the spirit.

You asked what does speaking in toungues have to do with seeking Yeshuah? Because I no longer speak in toungues and no longer believe in slain in the spirit renders me a Satan worshipper just about.I know my mom loves Yeshuah and I do also.But to her understanding I have left G-d and Blasphemed the Holy spirit. It was very difficult to be raised speaking in toungues for over 20 years and then suddenly stop.Bet you wont meet another.That's basically the big rift between my mother and I.Those two things divide us mostly,Some of it is the holidays but most of it is about speaking in toungues.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I grew up charasmatic and speaking in toungues was a big thing.When i began studying the Moed's I percieved that my toungues that I had spoken for 20 years were not of G-d.
To my mom speaking in toungues is a very big deal,It prooves you have the holy spirit.To say that you no longer believe in speaking in toungues means to my mom that you are blaspheming the holy spirit wich is a big deal .So it became a very big deal in our relationship.
My mother is an evangalist and she has very many churches that she preaches at.
In pensacola Fla.there was a thing going on there with slain in the spirit.My mom got very involved in this movement and she has many churches that believe in her whole heartedly.I used to minister with her and on several occasions we walked into churches and without saying a word people would fall slain in the spirit at just our presence.All she had to do was point a finger at sum1 and they became slain in the spirit.

You asked what does speaking in toungues have to do with seeking Yeshuah? Because I no longer speak in toungues and no longer believe in slain in the spirit renders me a Satan worshipper just about.I know my mom loves Yeshuah and I do also.But to her understanding I have left G-d and Blasphemed the Holy spirit. It was very difficult to be raised speaking in toungues for over 20 years and then suddenly stop.Bet you wont meet another.That's basically the big rift between my mother and I.Those two things divide us mostly,Some of it is the holidays but most of it is about speaking in toungues.

If you believe it's no longer applicable to you that is fine. However, while I don't believe that one must speak in tongues in order to be saved I do believe it's an important part of my worship time with Him. My question was actually, "what does NOT speaking in tongues have to do with seeking Yeshua?" What has happened for you to conclude that what you did for over 20 years was not of God and you suddenly stopped it? I'm not challenging you or anyone else on the issue, I'm genuinely curious.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

What does speaking or not speaking in tongues have to do with seeking Yeshua??

Well, there are those on both sides of that question who strongly feel that only if you are on their side are you truly seeking Yeshua.

There are just as many charismatics that believe that you *must* speak in tongues to truly follow G-d as non-charismatics that believe that if you speak in tongues you *can't* be following G-d. They are both wrong.

I am not one of those Charasmatics who feel that one "must" speak in tongues. I am very curious though why so many here, who once did, no longer do. I consider the spiritual language that God has given me to be an immense asset in my relationship and communion with Him. I don't feel that I "must" speak but I feel the strength and edification promised in 1 Cor 14 when I do. I'm also not saying that I do'nt feel strength and edification when I speak in English but when I just have absolutely no idea how to pray then I allow the spirit to pray through me.

 

[Multi-Elis]

I know this thread has gone off subject but I just wanted to say that I think I understand Jewish Heart, I too am often to saddened on this forum so I go away for a while. I applaud him for leaving the forum, mostly because he's right, we would all be better off spending less time on the computor. How did we survive before internet?I kinda wish i would spend less time on the computor. But sometimes I "need" debate.

 

[Henaynei]

Personally I don't think the MJ movement has a snowball's chance in Key West of surviving without the internet, even then it's going to be dicey.

 

[visionary]

I am delighted to meet and converse via internet with you all. It truly has been a blessing. I have been thankful to the Lord for this opporunity to converse with those that lead me closer to the Lord. May this interent forum continue, so that we all can continue to grow in the Lord.

 

[simchat_torah]

Many messianics don't have anywhere to go, and find thier sole interaction with other messianics via the internet.

fyi...

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Many messianics don't have anywhere to go, and find thier sole interaction with other messianics via the internet.

fyi...

That's how I've gotten involved. . .and I've met so many good people here.

 

[Hix]

ditto, as far as I know there is not a single messianic group/people in my entire country (not surprising since theres less than 100 Jews). The Internet is the sole place were interaction/learning is available for me with fellow Messianics.

Hopefully some time I might be arriving in C/U were Ive heard theres at least two others like me

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

 

[simchat_torah]

oh, there's a few other heretics in CU aslo

 

[Hix]

wow a few more heretics too? haha order me a chineese and il be over to eat it before its cold

 

[Multi-Elis]

Internet has it's uses, and I love debating on forums, but there comes a point where it becomes pointless, which is one of the reasons I think Jewish Heart left, and why I go away for long spells. To bad I don't notice sooner when it becomes pointless. For all I care what I am writing now is pointless and life would be better if I didn't take the time to explain this. But the temptation to debate is too tempting. So I go ahead and post.

 

[koilias]

Internet has it's uses, and I love debating on forums, but there comes a point where it becomes pointless, which is one of the reasons I think Jewish Heart left, and why I go away for long spells. To bad I don't notice sooner when it becomes pointless. For all I care what I am writing now is pointless and life would be better if I didn't take the time to explain this. But the temptation to debate is too tempting. So I go ahead and post.

Multi-Elis, as the one individual here who is fluent in Hebrew, I wish you would stick around more.

I think JH left because he got fed up trying to reason with us. He, he. Simply put, he has issues. The main reason the internet is not so helpful for him, perhaps, is because he came here mainly to debate. But that is not the motivation for most us. This is the only place, literally, where I can feel at home and find true fellowship.

It is not JH's views that are a problem, we have wide berth in this forum for opposing views! But there is a right way of doing things. JH showed little patience and respect for those he could not agree with, sadly.