Bye Bye Boehner

[DaisyDay]

Wasn't me who accused you of dissing him if that's whom you mean.

No, it was you who observed that they attack anyone who seems to dislike him if that anyone is not a conservative. I was just saying how weird that was seeing as how I don't even dislike Boehner and that conservative does dislike him, yet attacks me for supposedly disliking him (even though I don't dislike him). So strange.

 

[Pink Spider]

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MOD HAT ON

Thread was cleaned up by CF-Staff.
Please STOP Flaming and/or
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Also submit only posts that are in line
with the OP.


MOD HAT OFF
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[amanuensis63]

So by "normalizing" relations with the Castros, did we help the Cuban people? Are their lives better now that the embargo is gone? Are they any closer to truly being free?

We've had normalized relations with Cuba (note, not fully normalized) for about a month now? And if the Cuba people aren't riding unicorns and eating cotton candy I guess we better get back to the embargo.

There was no compromise in the removal of sanctions from Tehran, nor was there any compromise in the lifting of the embargo with Cuba.

Is the point to maintain as much human pain as possible? The embargo on Cuba wasn't getting rid of the Castros (unless you mean through OLD AGE). But if we don't normalize relationships we can be sure that we won't have any say in who comes after. We won't be able to make life better for them.

Maybe the embargo has been the reason that Cuba has not played a major role on the world stage to this point.

OR MAYBE it's because Cuba was NEVER important except that the RUSSIANS made it an outpost and we hate us the word "Communism" so much!

Since Che Guevara was offed in Bolivia Cuba has really not done much of anything anywhere else that I'm aware of and that was, what, 40-50 years ago?

Like yourself, I am all for the idea of normalizing relations with people. But only when they show that they want to be a part of the world instead of a world problem. Neither Cuba nor Iran deserve anything from us or the rest of the world. They are both dysfunctional.

Ahem, we made Iran the mess it is today in no small part. Learn some history.

 

[amanuensis63]

The Dow has little to nothing to do with how strong the economy is.

Well, let's just say that if a Republican was in the Oval Office right now that's ALL we'd hear about. BUT, more to the point it is capital. And for all the years we've heard about how Obama hates capitalism, the DJIA shows that under his administration capitalism and capital have reached amazing heights. So much for that meme.

But the Republicans would rather change the definition of Capitalism than allow that ANYTHING under Obama has improved for ANYONE.

Obama kept the Afghanistan war, yes. He pulled out of Iraq too early

He followed the George W. Bush TIMELINE for Iraq. So if he pulled out too early that's on the Republicans for setting the timeline.

and turned it into a mess with ISIS taking over everything in the vacuum.

THE VACUUM CREATED BY THE PREVIOUS REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION'S UNFOUNDED WAR ON IRAQ.

Let us be perfectly clear: OBAMA DIDN'T BUILD THAT.

He's not through yet. By the time he leaves office, he hopes to make about 12 to 20 million Illegal Immigrants, legal residents.

You mean like the REAGAN AMNESTY?

This will transform this nation quicker than anything else he could have done.

Like it did when Reagan enacted Amnesty for illegals in 1986?

How many lost coverage?

Do you mean how many had coverage change?

How many are still unemployed because of the stagnant economy?

A lot fewer than in 2008 when the country was shedding millions of jobs each month due to the ECONOMIC COLLAPSE THAT HAD STARTED THE PREVIOUS YEAR UNDER THE WATCH OF THE REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION.

If you guys on the RIght want to tell us of the HORRORS of Obama do not ignore the worse stuff under your own folks.

I would agree that the system needed some work.

You and about 85% of the American people polled prior to the ACA believe that. And in fact almost every aspect of the reforms proposed by the ACA were requested by the majority of American voters....but the GOP ran a nice misinformation campaign so when they were listed under "Obamacare" suddenly people didn't want the same reforms they wanted before the word "Obamacare" was attached to it.

I would also agree that the GOP didn't fall over themselves to try and find some kind of alternative

And they still haven't. THAT'S HOW YOU KNOW it was all a lie from the beginning! They never had a plan. In fact if anything their "plan" WAS Obamacare (as Romneycare and previously the 1994 Heritage Institute white paper which introduced the "personal mandate")

The sight of millions of Americans getting access to affordable healthcare does not "gall" anyone.

50+ "show votes" to repeal Obamacare and no alternative to replace it looks like it does.

For everyone who is now covered, there is an equal amount of those who lost coverage

Not quite.

FACT CHECK: http://www.factcheck.org/2014/04/millions-lost-insurance/

The liberal mantra is to get the money from the richest 1%. Take the money we need from someone who is trying to produce more and make life better for everyone.

LOL. Yeah, so you probably believe that the CEO of a company "makes" 300X more widgets in a day than one of his or her average employees?

Give me a break.

Oh, and all this scare talk about taking money from the 1%? Sorry, but back under EISENHOWER (A REPUBLICAN, if you forgot) the top marginal tax rate was 90%. It's now 15%.

PLEASE tell me you are familiar with what has happened under REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATIONS or just anything about American history.

All the while, putting this country so far into debt that we will never recover. How is spending tens of trillions of dollars we must borrow, "common sense"? I don't care what party you belong to, it's wrong and irresponsible.

Oh, I'm CERTAIN we'll "never recover"! Look at how we ceased to exist in 1945!

 

[KWCrazy]

Boehner's idea of compromise is rolling over for whatever the President and democrats demand. People elected Republicans to lead both houses on Congress, they want them to serve as a balance to Obama, not be his enabler!
I hope we can get a conservative speaker who is willing to fight and challenge this administration.

WOW! A voice of reason!
Republicans were elected in landslide victories to do 3 things; repeal Obamacare, Stop the illegal executive amnesty, and stop the treasonous actions of a president who sells out our friends and makes deals with our enemies. They did absolutely nothing. We gave them both houses of Congress but we couldn't give them a backbone. Boehenr's out. McConnell's next. The fact that outsiders and reformists are dominating in the polls should tell the Republican establishment that we're sick of them letting a 25% minority of far left liberals destroy this country.

Sorry, liberals. This isn't the end of the Tea Party. This could well be the end of weak willed Republicans. We didn't elect these people to get along with you. We elected them to STOP you.

 

[KWCrazy]

... the DJIA shows that under his administration capitalism and capital have reached amazing heights.

Figures don't lie but liars figure. There are over 90 million Americans out of work and the only reason they don't show as unemployed is that they've given up finding work. The middle class has been decimated. The wealthy have a large store of cash they aren't confident enough to re-invest. Small businesses are closing because of Obamacare and excessive regulation. The coal industry has been decimated because the fool on the hill thinks low cost energy could raise the earth's temperature 1 degree in the next 200 years; despite that fact that every global warming model fails. We are left with one of two possible conclusions: the president hates this country, or the president is an idiot.

But the Republicans would rather change the definition of Capitalism than allow that ANYTHING under Obama has improved for ANYONE.

Do you know anyone who is better of under Obama? I don't.

He followed the George W. Bush TIMELINE for Iraq.

Liberal lie.
No military timeline is ever carved in stone because if the enemy knows you're quitting there's no reason for him to surrender.
A timeline for withdrawal is a goal dependent on specific accomplishments. The conditions for withdrawal were never met because the Iraqi military was unable to protect itself from groups like ISIS.
Please stop repeating this lie.

THE VACUUM CREATED BY THE PREVIOUS REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION'S UNFOUNDED WAR ON IRAQ.

In case you didn't know it, the Iraq war started in 1991. There was a cease-fire that Iraq violated, which resumed hostilities. That's why Clinton could attack Iraq whenever he needed a scandal off the front pages. The use of force resolution passed with an overwhelming majority. Telling outright lies is not a proper debate form. Do you remember what leading Democrats had to say about Iraq?

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." Letter to President Bush, Signed by: -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." -- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

You mean like the REAGAN AMNESTY?

Amnesty was supposed to be a one-time solution, coupled with increased border security and heightened enforcement of immigration laws. It was a compromise with Democrats who got what they wanted and reneged on every other part of the agreement. The problems with illegal immigration today lie 100% with the Democrats who would make no deal that didn't include amnesty and then refused to uphold their end. Now they LIE about it and pretend that it was Reagan's idea when all along it was a compromise that they demanded. And democrats wonder why the American public doesn't consider them truthful?

 

[amanuensis63]

WOW! A voice of reason!
Republicans were elected in landslide victories to do 3 things; repeal Obamacare, Stop the illegal executive amnesty, and stop the treasonous actions of a president who sells out our friends and makes deals with our enemies.

And despite being fully in charge of the legislature they have done nothing! Bravo!

They did absolutely nothing.

That's because y'all elected them on a platform of "GRRRR OBAMA!" It would help if the Republican party had "ideas" instead of just hatred of Obama and a desire to see more people without healthcare.

The fact that outsiders and reformists are dominating in the polls should tell the Republican establishment that we're sick of them letting a 25% minority of far left liberals destroy this country.

"Destroy the country"! LOL! It really must be hard to watch millions of Americans get access to affordable healthcare. It really must be horrific to see we AREN'T in an economic Depression like we were heading into in 2007-8. It really must be TERRIBLE for all those investors who have record highs in the DJIA.

Obama "destroyed" America! LOL.

Sorry, liberals. This isn't the end of the Tea Party.

Maybe next week the Tea Party can further destroy the American Credit Rating with more stupid government shutdowns that only serve to hurt regular folks!

The Tea Party is a bunch of unthinking ideologues who haven't a clue but know they just wanna HURT SOMETHING. Even if its the country (which they successfully did when they did the debt ceiling thing and got the US credit rating degraded).

Shut down the government over Planned Parenthood funding when federal funds aren't to be used for abortion except in cases of rape, incest and threat to mother? SURE WHY NOT! That way women who AREN'T GETTING ABORTIONS OF CHOICE WILL BE THE ONES MOST HURT!

It would be funny how stupid the Tea Party is, except they are simply cruel in their stupidity.

This could well be the end of weak willed Republicans. We didn't elect these people to get along with you. We elected them to STOP you.

Yeah, and you failed, failed, failed. Funny how that works. Ignorance as a Platform didn't work at all!

I wonder why.

 

[KWCrazy]

It really must be hard to watch millions of Americans get access to affordable healthcare.

It'd harder to watch people lose their insurance and lose their doctors. Anyone who claims the poor didn't have health care is quite simply lying. Not having health insurance; a financial product; is not the same as having health care. It may come as a shock to the poorly educated, but health insurance was a rarity until the FDR administration. There is no provision for it in the Constitution, and no article in the Constitution which allows the federal government to force individuals to buy it. It was only allowed by the black robed tyrants because a spineless Republican party punted on making the hard choices and the administration, after telling the American people it was not a tax. assured the court that it was indeed a tax.

It's a shame that the poorly educated couldn't see this obvious socialist assault on the American health care industry.

The Tea Party is a bunch of unthinking ideologues who haven't a clue but know they just wanna HURT SOMETHING.

Why is it that leftists insist on demonizing their opponents and outright lying about them? There csn be only two conclusions regarding this statement; you're lying, or you're seriously deluded about your fellow Americans who only want the government to stop interfering with their lives.

Shut down the government over Planned Parenthood funding when federal funds aren't to be used for abortion except in cases of rape, incest and threat to mother?

Planned parenthood should be shut down under RICO laws. It's a criminal organization illegally trafficking in body parts and possibly committing murder on born alive babies to harvest their organs. No reasonable person would support them.

 

[DaisyDay]

It may come as a shock to the poorly educated, but health insurance was a rarity until the FDR administration.

There wasn't much in the way of health care until then either, not until the introduction of antibiotics.

 

[amanuensis63]

It'd harder to watch people lose their insurance and lose their doctors.

Except it didn't quite happen that way.

http://www.factcheck.org/2014/04/millions-lost-insurance/

Anyone who claims the poor didn't have health care is quite simply lying.

Perhaps you thought that the fact that ER's were required to stabilize someone meant they had healthcare. That's kind of silly because that means OTHER PEOPLE PAY and they PAY MORE than if the poor person had access to primary care physicians. But again the narrative the Right pushes NEVER requires that they follow their own fiscal conservative values...just so long as people are denied access to affordable healthcare.

Why is it that leftists insist on demonizing their opponents and outright lying about them?

You could prove me wrong by having the Tea Party:

1. NOT back the Planned Parenthood defunding shutdown (remember that federal funds can't be used for abortion except in cases of rape, incest, threat to life of mother and that only applies to Medicaid, other fed funds can't be used for abortions at all. (To do otherwise means that they support simply HURTING PEOPLE who aren't going to get abortions by eliminating more healthcare options)

2. Support Single Payer healthcare or support a VIABLE ALTERNATIVE to the ACA (to do what they are doing now, espousing repeal but without an alternative, looks like they just want to go back to more people hurting).

I'm willing to see the Tea Party behave like rational people. But I haven't seen that yet.

Planned parenthood should be shut down under RICO laws. It's a criminal organization illegally trafficking in body parts

Speaking of LIES.....

 

[amanuensis63]

Figures don't lie but liars figure. There are over 90 million Americans out of work and the only reason they don't show as unemployed is that they've given up finding work.

THEN YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE CAPITALISTS. THEY can make jobs with the enormous capitalization of corporations but....well, you know....

The middle class has been decimated.

THANK YOU REAGAN ERA TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMIC THEORY!

The coal industry has been decimated because the fool on the hill thinks low cost energy could raise the earth's temperature 1 degree in the next 200 years

Those "fools" include just about every professional climate scientist over the last 60 years.

Oh, one other thing: I did my dissertation on coal chemistry. If you have any technical questions about coal, go ahead and ask.

Liberal lie.

"The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement ... was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. combat forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011."
(emphasis added)

Amnesty was supposed to be a one-time solution, coupled with increased border security and heightened enforcement of immigration laws.

Sounds like special pleading because Saint Ronald Reagan did the unthinkable.

LOL!

 

[AceHero]

Fallout from the tea wing.

Yes. The republicans are trying to remove any thoughts of moderation and compromise from their side in the political process. This is why I hope they choose Louie Gohmert as the next speaker. If they want to go full extreme, he is their guy....

How about Steve Scalise, who in the past referred to himself as "David Duke without the baggage"?

Bernie Sanders might be a little left of the Castros.....

To Julian Castro, probably. The actual Castros in Cuba? Not a chance.

The coal industry has been decimated because the fool on the hill thinks low cost energy could raise the earth's temperature 1 degree in the next 200 years; despite that fact that every global warming model fails.

Coal production peaked a long time ago in the U.S., and the industry is dying not from overregulation, but from the fact that it can't compete with shale gas. Technology has also reduced the amount of workers needed. Lots of places have been "mined out" as well.

 

[Short Timer]

Heck, even Trump calls Fox network "liberals". How crazy is that???

Might not be as crazy as you think,

One of the CEO at fox was on George Bush Senior's staff to help him get elected,
and are supporting Jeb Bush.

Destroying Trump helps Jeb Bush.

 

[KWCrazy]

There wasn't much in the way of health care until then either, not until the introduction of antibiotics.

Case in point. How the requirement to purchase it be found in the Constitution?

 

[KWCrazy]

Except it didn't quite happen that way. [/quote
Except it did.

In California, the Wall Street Journal reported last month that 900,000 people are having their policies canceled because they don't meet the Obamacare requirements. And as some 600,000 of these people are not eligible for subsidies, they will end up paying larger premiums.

In New York, thousands of small businesses are being hammered by the cost of premiums under Obamacare, according to the New York Post.

The National Federation of Independent Businesses, which represents nearly 11,000 business owners across the state, has revealed that not one single member has reported that their healthcare insurance costs are going down.

The federation's director Mike Durant said an "overwhelming majority" of small firms with fewer than 50 employees have reported, in fact, that their premiums have shot up.
source

The fact is, nothing in Obamacare was ever designed to cut costs and no provision was made for keeping your physician. It was all about the taking over a huge portion of the nation's economy by a socialist government. It was so outrageous the only way it could be sold to the public was through carefully orchestrated lies. These lies are still being parroted by leftists.

Perhaps you thought that the fact that ER's were required to stabilize someone meant they had healthcare.

Perhaps you are unable to tell the difference between health care and health insurance.
Perhaps you thought that it was your neighbor's responsibility to pay for your health care.
If your needs help you pay your mechanic. If you need help you pay your doctor.
If you are concerned with huge medical bills, you buy insurance. If you truly have no money they put you on Medicare and you have insurance.
All the experts said that Obamacare wouldn't work but he didn't listen because he thinks he's brilliant. That's why he surrounds himself with yes-men rather than actual experts.
History will record him as the poorest president in American history. People like you who voted for him are to thank for that.
[quote That's kind of silly because that means OTHER PEOPLE PAY and they PAY MORE than if the poor person had access to primary care physicians.

Everyone had access to primary care physicians. Everyone has access to a cheeseburger. In the real world if you want something you pay for it.

But again the narrative the Right pushes NEVER requires that they follow their own fiscal conservative values...just so long as people are denied access to affordable healthcare.
If you believe this you have some serious mental issues. If you don't you're lying.
You seriously believe that our goal is to deny you affordable health care?
Did the voices in your head tell you that? It's called paranoia. You should get some help.

NOT back the Planned Parenthood defunding shutdown

Ever hear of the Constitution? ALL funding begins in the House. If Obummer doesn't like that Congress isn't going to fund his favorite murderers so he throws a hissy fit and shuts down the government, then it's on him, not Congress.

Support Single Payer healthcare or support a VIABLE ALTERNATIVE to the ACA

Single payer is socialism. The alternatives to Obamacare were allowed to be discussed while the Democrats were in power because they acted like totalitarians. The Republicans should seriously dump them off every committee and simply take charge. Democrats only want bipartisanship when they are out of power. Pelosi and Reid are two great examples of how NOT to act as a government official.

I'm willing to see the Tea Party behave like rational people. But I haven't seen that yet.

Says the person who is so paranoid he thinks that big bad Republicans are out to get him.

 

[DaisyDay]

Case in point. How the requirement to purchase it be found in the Constitution?

The requirement is to show that you have insurance, not to purchase it, or else be subject to a tax. I don't have to purchase it because my employer provides it; some other people qualify for Medicaid.

 

[DaisyDay]

Everyone had access to primary care physicians.

Except for the ones who didn't.

 

[KWCrazy]

Except for the ones who didn't.

I've never met a physician who turned away paying customers, have you?
Do you feel people who spend decades in school learning their trade should be asked to work for free?

 

[smaneck]

Invariably when one attempts to welcome in a ravening wolf into the household it becomes more and more difficult to control it. Boehner clearly wasn't a big Tea Party advocate per se, but the GOP as a whole courted these loons and they ultimately took over the asylum. I suspect Boehner is getting fed up with the antics but is powerless to do anything about it.

The timing of his official resignation (the end of October) actually lends him a certain amount of power. He can now make an alliance between moderate Republicans and the Dems to prevent a government shut down which would cost the Republicans the election in 2016. Since he already announced his resignation there is nothing the Tea Party caucus can hold over his head.

 

[smaneck]

Doubtful that's the reason. Dems shouldn't be gloating too much. The next Speaker could hardly be as weak and ineffective.

If Boehner gets a budget passed this month, it may not matter what the next Speaker. Of course, he could end up shutting down the government next year right before the election. That would go over really well!