Bye Bye Ape Man!!!

[TheBear]

Who made the discovery, scientists or creationists?

Scientists

Thank you.

- but all that means is that they have to admit they are wrong yet again.

Well, get used to it. That's how science always works. Welcome to the real world of science. Models are constantly being revised and modified in the light of new evidence.

Now there is nothing wrong with admitting you made a mistake.

You just don't get it, do you? 'Admit' implies prior intent to cover something up. That's not the case here. Science is chock full of scrutiny, falsification, modification and changes, in the light of new evidence. Science is constantly fine-tuning theories and hypotheses, as more information is uncovered. That's a far-cry from admitting to something.

But there is something wrong with making eternal decisions based on information that may or may not be proven wrong.

True.

On the other hand, however, there's something wrong with making life decisions, base on information that has not been proven right.

But what does any of this have to do with the OP article?

Atheists decide not to believe in God, because science can't prove His existence, when science is constantly having to admit they are wrong.

Do you decide not to believe in Thor, or, do you just not believe in Thor? Further, how does the article prove or disprove the existence of god(s)?

Do you accept the entire article?

Meaning?????

Did you read the entire article?

A few questions for you....

A few questions for me? I'm not the OP. You are. It's your OP and your rantings I am replying to.

How did the universe start?

That would make for a nice thread in itself, but has absolutely nothing to do with the OP article.

 

[Loudmouth]

That would be true if I was trying to make a positive claim - which I wasnt. I was discussing a possibility, not a positive claim. All I was after was the admission that a deity was possible. If I tried to get someone to admit He definitely existed, then you would be right. Six atheists in this thread (if I include you) have admitted that it is a possibility (one of many).

How does really, really believing in something make it possible? If I really, really, really believed that the moon was made of cheese would it turn into cheese?

The only problem with this practice is that IF you are wrong, you wont know until it's too late and you are standing before Him. It seems like, if it is a possibility, even a remote one, you would want to investigate it as much as possible, since a lot would be riding on it.

This coming from someone who is not expecting to answer to Zeus any time soon. So what are you going to say to Zeus when you stand before him?

A Christian who believes because he has looked at various facts, situations, and events and made a decision. Anyway, just a thought.

I was a christian who believed because mommie and daddie told him too. Then I looked at it objectively and became an atheist.

 

[DMagoh]

Well, it's been nice talking with you guys. I see from the most recent posts, you still like to drag out the same old tired line, "You're ignorant". Of course, every one of you have admitted you dont know how the universe started, and there really is no natural explanation for it.

I'm just glad I'm not in your catch-22 situation. You refuse to seriously consider God until you can see scientific evidence and can measure and test Him. However, IF God exists (as described in the Bible), He would be beyond scientific explanation and could not be measured or tested. You might as well say you refuse to seriously believe that energy exists until you can measure it with a yardstick.

I know you will all take pot shots at me after I'm gone. Then you'll congratulate each other on how "we showed him how ignorant he was." I dont mind accepting your condescension - I know it is a way that you try to get rid of the uncomfortable feeling you get when a Christian asks you tough questions that you cant answer and will never be able to answer. It's that feeling in your gut. It gnaws at you. But try as you might, you'll never be able to fully quieten it. Just like pain is necessary for a reason, so is that feeling.

Believe it or not, I love every one of you! Take care guys!

 

[Baggins]

Well, it's been nice talking with you guys. I see from the most recent posts, you still like to drag out the same old tired line, "You're ignorant". Of course, every one of you have admitted you dont know how the universe started, and there really is no natural explanation for it.

Don't know =/= no natural explanation

Don't know =/= god

Don't Know = Don't Know.

Can you grasp that. Saying we don't know does not mean we admit there is no natural explanation, it simply means we don't know. Yet.

I'm just glad I'm not in your catch-22 situation. You refuse to seriously consider God until you can see scientific evidence and can measure and test Him. However, IF God exists (as described in the Bible), He would be beyond scientific explanation and could not be measured or tested. You might as well say you refuse to seriously believe that energy exists until you can measure it with a yardstick.

You can same about any of the other supernatural "entities" that you don't believe in.

I know you will all take pot shots at me after I'm gone. Then you'll congratulate each other on how "we showed him how ignorant he was." I dont mind accepting your condescension - I know it is a way that you try to get rid of the uncomfortable feeling you get when a Christian asks you tough questions that you cant answer and will never be able to answer.

Don't know is answer.

It's that feeling in your gut. It gnaws at you. But try as you might, you'll never be able to fully quieten it. Just like pain is necessary for a reason, so is that feeling.

You mind reading powers are very weak, I don't feel like that and I doubt any other atheist does,

Believe it or not, I love every one of you! T

 

[selfinflikted]

Well, it's been nice talking with you guys. I see from the most recent posts, you still like to drag out the same old tired line, "You're ignorant". Of course, every one of you have admitted you dont know how the universe started, and there really is no natural explanation for it.

I'd go even further and call it "willful ignorance". Your ignorance of the subject matter has been repeatedly pointed out, and you seem unwilling to accept that your knowledge on said matter is lacking - severely. These guys are not only refuting what you say, they are trying to teach you something about a subject that they know rather intimately. I won't sympathise with someone who is unwilling to learn something new.

 

[Split Rock]

Well, it's been nice talking with you guys. I see from the most recent posts, you still like to drag out the same old tired line, "You're ignorant". Of course, every one of you have admitted you dont know how the universe started, and there really is no natural explanation for it.

Therefore, God.

By the way, do you have an explanation for God's existence? No? Oh, oh...Guess that means you are admitting God doesn't exist.. right?

I'm just glad I'm not in your catch-22 situation. You refuse to seriously consider God until you can see scientific evidence and can measure and test Him. However, IF God exists (as described in the Bible), He would be beyond scientific explanation and could not be measured or tested. You might as well say you refuse to seriously believe that energy exists until you can measure it with a yardstick.

Energy can be measured, but not with a yardstick. Typical of a Creationist to choose the wrong tool ...

I know you will all take pot shots at me after I'm gone. Then you'll congratulate each other on how "we showed him how ignorant he was." I dont mind accepting your condescension - I know it is a way that you try to get rid of the uncomfortable feeling you get when a Christian asks you tough questions that you cant answer and will never be able to answer. It's that feeling in your gut. It gnaws at you. But try as you might, you'll never be able to fully quieten it. Just like pain is necessary for a reason, so is that feeling.

Is it anything like the uncomfortable feeling a Creationist feels when his assumptions about evolution are shown to be all wrong? But, try as you might to ignore all that and continue to cling to your narrow-minded interpretation of scripture, that feeling will never go away.

Believe it or not, I love every one of you! Take care guys!

We love you too!

 

[Logic_Fault]

Well, it's been nice talking with you guys. I see from the most recent posts, you still like to drag out the same old tired line, "You're ignorant". Of course, every one of you have admitted you dont know how the universe started, and there really is no natural explanation for it.

Were you paying attention when I told you that "I don't know" is a perfectly valid answer? You also seem to have skipped the part where I told you that it doesn't give you any reason to use Goddidit just because we don't know yet. You also seem to have missed the link I gave you about God of the Gapshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_Gaps.

Or you just don't care.

Neither reflects well on you.

I'm just glad I'm not in your catch-22 situation. You refuse to seriously consider God until you can see scientific evidence and can measure and test Him.

Of course. Anything less would be foolish.

However, IF God exists (as described in the Bible), He would be beyond scientific explanation and could not be measured or tested. You might as well say you refuse to seriously believe that energy exists until you can measure it with a yardstick.

Energy in it's various forms has evidence of it's existence; your god does not.

Once you provide us with verifiable evidence that your god exists then we'll have a look at it. Unfortunately you've yet to do that and instead insist that we just don't want to believe.

I know you will all take pot shots at me after I'm gone. Then you'll congratulate each other on how "we showed him how ignorant he was."

If you'd actually read any of our replies you'd note that we weren't calling you ignorant to be insulting--we were pointing out a weakness in your understanding of a subject in the futile hopes that you'd rectify it before attempting to form an argument.

I dont mind accepting your condescension - I know it is a way that you try to get rid of the uncomfortable feeling you get when a Christian asks you tough questions that you cant answer and will never be able to answer.

The only question you posed that we didn't answer was about where the original matter/energy came from that eventually formed the universe as we know it. We've repeatedly told you that we don't know. You, however, wont see that as a real answer for some reason.

There is nothing uncomfortable about your questions other than in your own mind. Your questions, save for the one mentioned above, were answered. The one question we didn't answer wasn't answered because nobody knows yet.

It's that feeling in your gut. It gnaws at you. But try as you might, you'll never be able to fully quieten it. Just like pain is necessary for a reason, so is that feeling.

Tell yourself that if it makes you feel better.

Believe it or not, I love every one of you! Take care guys!

Running away will not make science any less damaging to your beliefs.

 

[Tomk80]

Well, it's been nice talking with you guys. I see from the most recent posts, you still like to drag out the same old tired line, "You're ignorant". Of course, every one of you have admitted you dont know how the universe started, and there really is no natural explanation for it.

Knowing what you don't know is one of the result of not being ignorant. The more knowledge you obtain of a certain area, the more you know about what is known about it and what is unknown about it.

What strikes me in this thread is that you have made quite a number of claims that we know are incorrect. So are you now going to admit you were wrong on them?

I'm just glad I'm not in your catch-22 situation. You refuse to seriously consider God until you can see scientific evidence and can measure and test Him. However, IF God exists (as described in the Bible), He would be beyond scientific explanation and could not be measured or tested. You might as well say you refuse to seriously believe that energy exists until you can measure it with a yardstick.

Why would anyone believe anything for which there is no evidence. That is not a very sane thing to do know, is it? Yet that is what you are promoting here.

I know you will all take pot shots at me after I'm gone. Then you'll congratulate each other on how "we showed him how ignorant he was." I dont mind accepting your condescension - I know it is a way that you try to get rid of the uncomfortable feeling you get when a Christian asks you tough questions that you cant answer and will never be able to answer. It's that feeling in your gut. It gnaws at you. But try as you might, you'll never be able to fully quieten it. Just like pain is necessary for a reason, so is that feeling.

People answered your questions here, all of them. It's not that you are ignorant in itself that makes me want to take potshots at you. It is that you choose to maintain that ignorance after people have shown you that you are incorrect. In short, the arrogance you portray is what makes me want to take potshots at you.

Believe it or not, I love every one of you! Take care guys!

 

[Elduran]

Another creationist abandons their trainwreck of a thread...

 

[Skaloop]

Another creationist abandons their trainwreck of a thread...

Exactly what I was thinking. We "evolutionists" are so uncomfortable because of his questions that we... continue to come to the thread and address his points. When his points get challenged, he runs away. And yet we are the "uncomfortable" ones?

 

[Atheuz]

Believe it or not Dmagoh, you can believe in God and still believe in what Science says, ask the Pope.

 

[TheGnome]

This is another failed attempt by a creationist to misunderstand science in order to promote their particular religious beliefs.

I'm still confused as to why the article somehow disproves human evolution, and why science has to be 100% accurate all of the time to even be considered to find truth. I'm also confused that when science is pitted against religion, science must be 100% right all of the time to even compare to religious claims, even though the religious claims are picked out of thin are or based out of personal experiences, that even contradict other personal experiences, rather than anything objective.

In our normal, everyday lives, we don't assume to have the full truth right off hand, we generally know we have an idea of the truth. This is why we have court systems and such. I guess this is another failed attempt at trying to convert the evil atheists and bailing out when it didn't work. I usually see two ways of exiting: A) Bowing out of the thread quietly and B) claiming that everyone is lost and wrong and there is no hope.

 

[consol]

This is another failed attempt by a creationist to misunderstand science in order to promote their particular religious beliefs.

As the man said in 'The Terminator', "it's what he does", he doesn't know what else to do,
he is not programmed for anything else, trying to prove evolution wrong is all he does, (and good luck to him)
his belief in creationism depends on him and his fellow believers destroying evolution.
It's what they do.....

 

[Loudmouth]

Well, it's been nice talking with you guys. I see from the most recent posts, you still like to drag out the same old tired line, "You're ignorant". Of course, every one of you have admitted you dont know how the universe started, and there really is no natural explanation for it.

Ignorance is not bad, and better yet it is curable. Arrogance, on the other hand, is bad and this is exactly what you have dished out by the spoonful. There are many things that I am ignorant of (eg differential equations kick my butt) but I don't go onto math forums telling everyone else that they don't know anything and I am the know-it-all of the world. Next time, before you come out guns blazing, perhaps you should take a step back and make sure what you are claiming is acutally true (eg conservation of mass, the actuall big bang theory, those would be a good start).

I'm just glad I'm not in your catch-22 situation. You refuse to seriously consider God until you can see scientific evidence and can measure and test Him.

The old scientific saw states "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." You might keep that in mind for next time.

However, IF God exists (as described in the Bible), He would be beyond scientific explanation and could not be measured or tested. You might as well say you refuse to seriously believe that energy exists until you can measure it with a yardstick.

And again, you illustrate your ignorance. This is not our fault. It is yours. Energy is measureable, but a thermometer is preferable to a yardstick.

I know you will all take pot shots at me after I'm gone. Then you'll congratulate each other on how "we showed him how ignorant he was."

We pity you. We only hope that you serve as an example to others.

I dont mind accepting your condescension - I know it is a way that you try to get rid of the uncomfortable feeling you get when a Christian asks you tough questions that you cant answer and will never be able to answer. It's that feeling in your gut. It gnaws at you. But try as you might, you'll never be able to fully quieten it. Just like pain is necessary for a reason, so is that feeling.

Believe it or not, scientists love the unknown. I have always wondered why some christians are so afraid of it.

 

[Domenico]

I've read through this whole thread. I hate when the occasional Christian makes the rest of us look arrogant and stupid.

 

[nvxplorer]

Interesting. It "just happened" and you dont know how. You are super intelligent but you dont know how... and yet you are positive that God did not do it. That sounds like "unintelligence" to me. "I can unequivocally say beyond the shadow of a doubt that no deity had anything to do anything, but I have no idea how everything started." Maybe you understand physics, but you sure dont understand logic.

How many years/months/days have I been married? C'mon now, use your impeccable logic in answering.

 

[nvxplorer]

The only problem with this practice is that IF you are wrong, you wont know until it's too late and you are standing before Him. It seems like, if it is a possibility, even a remote one, you would want to investigate it as much as possible, since a lot would be riding on it.

Pascal's Wager is pitifully flawed.

What if only atheists go to heaven? Then it would be you who are in deep trouble.

 

[Elduran]

I've read through this whole thread. I hate when the occasional Christian makes the rest of us look arrogant and stupid.

Indeed, it is terrible when that happens. Fortunately we have some christians here on the supposedly atheistic side, so it becomes a little harder for said individuals to divide it into an "us and them" thing, and instead it just turns into "what I believe" vs science.

 

[Atheuz]

Pascal's Wager is pitifully flawed.

What if only atheists go to heaven? Then it would be you who are in deep trouble.

Or what if Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Scientology, Deism, Pantheism ... etc is the right one?

Pascal's Wager is good on the surface, but once you actually start thinking, for 2 seconds, you'll realize how stupid it is.

 

[Tomk80]

Or what if Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Scientology, Deism, Pantheism ... etc is the right one?

Pascal's Wager is good on the surface, but once you actually start thinking, for 2 seconds, you'll realize how stupid it is.

I always thinks that Pascal's wager is mostly flawed because of the stupid reasoning behind it. Like anyone could fake believing in a deity, most of all believing in a deity that is omnipotent.

The whole wager is flawed in so many respects.