By his stripes we were healed

[razzelflabben]

Hi swordsman1
Good question!
I don't know the answers.
I do know that we have spiritual bodies in Heaven and so we can't have babies
we can't marry and indeed have no need to marry, since marriage is to produce
godly offspring to fight in the Kingdom of God (Malachi)
And of course we don't need to eat meat in Heaven as it's a different atmosphere.
I'm guessing we have to take into consideration that we're on earth.
But sickness? In reading through the entire Bible, no, it's not His will for us to be
Ill .. why would God cast out sickness if it were a good (GOD) thing.
Why would He not say, keep it, it's good for you?
I don't know, all I know is that if I'm sick, I'm told to pray.

Now, you can't answer why what you claimed to be "God's will" in heaven isn't His "will" on earth, then turn around and proclaim that physical healing is always in HIs will....this goes back to Gen. His perfect "will" was for sin to never enter our world, yet it did and the result of that is suffering of all kinds. And yes, there is a purpose to that suffering. The purpose is to remind us that we are to be righteous.

That being said, this isn't an either or kind of thing. Yes we are to pray for healing and if God so chooses to heal, then praise be to Him, but what if He chooses not to heal? What then? Do we lose faith? Blame someone? Or do we allow it to teach us about righteousness?

Let me tell you my story, well, a fraction of it anyway. Because of things I couldn't control, my health is now very bad, so bad that I am all but house bound....long story that would make sense if I told the whole thing....anyway, I prayed, others I know prayed, what I discovered is that this illness that GOD HAS GIVEN ME, makes me available to do what GOD HAS CALLED ME TO DO. You see, if I didn't have this sickness, two things would be true 1. I wouldn't be able to comfort others like I am able to do, which btw, according to HEb. is why Christ had to suffer, so He could comfort or empathize with us and 2. I would be back to work and therefore without the time to pursue the calling God has for me at this time. See, it's my own stubbornness at living in a world that is full of sin that keep me from at least part of my healing. So, I praise the Lord for my illness, I practice righteousness despite it, and learn all I can about my Lord through it. For what I have discovered, is that this illness that has come upon me, is one of the greatest gifts God has given to me. Just as the poverty He asked of us has been an amazing gift from God that I thank Him for all the time.

In the hands of God, nothing that touches our lives, including but not limited to sickness is for naught, but rather it is an opportunity to discover the God I don't know by rediscovering the God I do know. Romans 8:28

 

[razzelflabben]

Language barrier, good question.
We find the answer in Scripture i think
He did create us with no barrier.
Man got snarky and He confused language.
Now that we are all one (the body of Christ)
we no longer have to worry about that either.
We do still have different languages in earth
country to country, but we also have the universal
language of the Spirit.
MANY accounts of folks "understanding" a language
they shouldn't be able to, or speaking one they never
learned.
(MY 2 cents, take it or leave it have a good day )

how does that answer the question? It seems like you are trying to avoid

 

[razzelflabben]

I do try to answer every question, even foolish ones.
I'm not going to do that anymore. Wasted time is sinful (unfruitful)
I'll discuss truths of God and Scripture but will disregard
posts that are combative, mean spirited or baiting

the only posts I have seen so far on here that are mean spirited and baiting are from you, but you deny that is in your heart, so I just dismiss the hostile feel and take you at your word, maybe you could extend the same courtesy for anyone here you are reading in a manner that is not consistent with their heart?!

 

[sunlover1]

how does that answer the question? It seems like you are trying to avoid

I answered him the best i could. what more do you want lol?
please stop accusing me!
This is the last time i'm responding to you over this kind of silliness

 

[Extraneous]

Hi swordsman1
Good question!
I don't know the answers.
I do know that we have spiritual bodies in Heaven and so we can't have babies
we can't marry and indeed have no need to marry, since marriage is to produce
godly offspring to fight in the Kingdom of God (Malachi)
And of course we don't need to eat meat in Heaven as it's a different atmosphere.
I'm guessing we have to take into consideration that we're on earth.
But sickness? In reading through the entire Bible, no, it's not His will for us to be
Ill .. why would God cast out sickness if it were a good (GOD) thing.
Why would He not say, keep it, it's good for you?
I don't know, all I know is that if I'm sick, I'm told to pray.

We cant pick and choose. Just like picking and choosing between Isaiah 55 and 53. The only logical thing is to see with spiritual eyes rather than physical.

 

[sunlover1]

Now, you can't answer why what you claimed to be "God's will" in heaven isn't His "will" on earth, then turn around and proclaim that physical healing is always in HIs will....this goes back to Gen. His perfect "will" was for sin to never enter our world, yet it did and the result of that is suffering of all kinds. And yes, there is a purpose to that suffering. The purpose is to remind us that we are to be righteous.

? Chapter and verse please.
Thanks

 

[sunlover1]

Never mind,
Unsubscribing

 

[razzelflabben]

I answered him the best i could. what more do you want lol?
please stop accusing me!
This is the last time i'm responding to you over this kind of silliness

where is your answer, maybe you could just give us the cliff note version....if all these things are true of heaven, and we are to pray for them to be so on earth, why do we have marriage? where are our streets of gold? Are you praying for all marriage to cease, in accordance with God's will in heaven as on earth? Are you praying for our streets to be paved with gold? And if so, why aren't these things happening here on earth? If not, why not since your claim is that healing is God's will in heaven and on earth?

You see, it becomes very apparent when we see the issue as this poster wisely pointed out that God's will is different in heaven than on earth, none the less, it is still God's will that we should be concerned with. Something you seem to be avoiding.

 

[razzelflabben]

? Chapter and verse please.
Thanks

Gen. 3:4; 2:17 are great places to start, I didn't even imagine in my wildest dreams that you wouldn't have know that given how much scripture you talk about here.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No post.....



.

 

[Job8]

This Isaiah 53 scripture is one of the most misused scriptures in the Church today. This scripture is not referring to physical healing at all, but instead is referring to sin and spiritual illnesses.

While I do not subscribe to WOF beliefs, there is no reason to think that this healing cannot include BOTH physical and spiritual healing. Indeed Matthew (by Divine inspiration) applies this to physical healing (demon possessed and ALL THAT WERE SICK). Our biases should not cloud our understanding.

When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses. (Mt 8:16,17).

 

[swordsman1]

While I do not subscribe to WOF beliefs, there is no reason to think that this healing cannot include BOTH physical and spiritual healing. Indeed Matthew (by Divine inspiration) applies this to physical healing (demon possessed and ALL THAT WERE SICK). Our biases should not cloud our understanding.

When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses. (Mt 8:16,17).

It is true there is a link between sin and sickness (physical sickness and indeed death came as a consequence of sin). But Jesus didn't die for our sicknesses. He died for our sin. The next verse from Isaiah 53 after the one quoted by Matthew makes that clear:

Isaiah 53:5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed.
​

The root of sickness is sin. When we are ultimately rid of sin then it follows that we will also be rid of sickness. Only when sin is ultimately defeated and we are in a sinless state in Eternity will there be no further sickness or death. But in the meantime we still live in a sinful world. We still sin, we still get sick, and we still die. Surely when Jesus walked the earth and healed sicknesses and diseases that was merely a foretaste of what is to come. Not a mandate for today's 'faith healers' to claim that Christians should be healed of all their illnesses today, and if their healing touch fails (as it invariably does) the fault lies with the sick person for not having enough faith. That is just cruel.

 

[Strong in Him]

Many believe that and always get colds, the flu and every other virus that comes knocking.

Some people don't believe that and don't get any colds or viruses at all. A few of those may not even be Christians.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Growing up many were like "Obviously your not a real christian and also don't pray hard enough if your not healed yet!". Its part of what made me get mad at God and the world. My rebellious phase. I just pray those who said those things to me realize they have to answer (to God) for provoking me and leading me to anger. Now some say "Are you saying God can't heal you?". No. God is God. He can heal anyone at anytime. But as others have said, this world has sin in it. We will get sick, we will all die eventually. Its part of life while in these bodies. I've seen a woman who had terminal cancer. The church prayed for her. The next day she said she felt fine. They did scans and there was NO cancer in her at all. Now yes, I can't verify this story. I heard it though someone at church at the time. None the less I do believe i happened.

As for those who claim to never get sick... well. Problem is aside from pride, self righteous stuff, you are lying too. Ok MAYBE I can believe you never even got a cold. But its highly unlikely. Many of them will say its because they are sin free because of their relationship with God. So I tell them "Have you ever gone 1 mile over the speed limit? Ever jay walked? Ever even got mad in your head even just for a second? Ever lie, even a tiny white lie? If you say no then I don't believe you. Mistakes is what helps us grow and change. We may never be free of sin and mess up at times, but without sin we would also never grow as christians."

 

[Optimax]

Some people don't believe that and don't get any colds or viruses at all. A few of those may not even be Christians.

That means that by the grace of God they do not have to believe for healing for colds or viruses(at least some viruses).

They might have to deal with other sicknesses though even more deadly, like cancer.

 

[Optimax]

Everyone had multiple opportunities to receive all kinds of sickness/disease in their lifetime.

Because of "by His stripes we are healed" we can gain the understanding of that and learn how not to receive those opportunities.

 

[razzelflabben]

Everyone had multiple opportunities to receive all kinds of sickness/disease in their lifetime.

Because of "by His stripes we are healed" we can gain the understanding of that and learn how not to receive those opportunities.

when we study the scriptures we learn that this quote is referring to spiritual healing not physical healing, which misleads many people. Just saying, if you want to make the case use passage quotes that say what you want to promote, friendly suggestion nothing more or less.

 

[Optimax]

when we study the scriptures we learn that this quote is referring to spiritual healing not physical healing, which misleads many people. Just saying, if you want to make the case use passage quotes that say what you want to promote, friendly suggestion nothing more or less.

Realize that what you say goes both ways.

Those, who as Isaiah said, believe the report will reap the benefits of what Jesus did for us.

Those who do not believe will not.

 

[razzelflabben]

Realize that what you say goes both ways.

Those, who as Isaiah said, believe the report will reap the benefits of what Jesus did for us.

Those who do not believe will not.

????? Yep....not sure how that applies to what I said, but okay...

 

[Strong in Him]

That means that by the grace of God they do not have to believe for healing for colds or viruses(at least some viruses).

Sorry, but nonsense.

Firstly Scripture does not say anywhere that believers are exempt from colds and viruses and that being perfectly healthy will be a witness to our faith. One of Paul's co workers was so ill that he was not able to accompany Paul on his journey - yet Paul didn't heal him; he left him behind. Another was so ill that he nearly died - and Paul himself only preached to the Galatians because he was sick.
Secondly, Jesus said that someone needed faith only the size of a mustard seed. If a Christian can believe that our invisible God can make the whole universe out of nothing, that he himself came to earth and was God and man in the person of Jesus, that he died for our salvation and that anyone who believes in this is indeed saved and has eternal life, even though we can't see, feel or measure those promises - don't you think he has the faith to believe that God also answers prayer and can heal? I do, and IF that was what God had promised, then I am certain that no Christian would be sick; ever. You might even find that lots of people would turn to Jesus - even if the promise of salvation didn't attract them, I'm sure that the thought of perfect physical health would.

What, with respect, I think you mean is, "they do not believe as we do; that healing is guaranteed for every Christian and no believer has to suffer illness".
Years ago, when I had M.E, and when there used to be numerous heated debates about healing on these forums, I was told, point blank; "if you do not have faith (i.e believe what we are telling you), you will never be healed."
Well I guess the Lord didn't read that post, because he did heal me. That was 7 years ago. I still do not believe that particular doctrine, and am still healed.