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Featured By his stripes we were healed

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Extraneous, Mar 6, 2016.

  1. Extraneous

    Extraneous Well-Known Member

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    This Isaiah 53 scripture is one of the most misused scriptures in the Church today. This scripture is not referring to physical healing at all, but instead is referring to sin and spiritual illnesses. Throughout the scriptures we see God referring to spiritual blindness and deafness, (Mathew 13). Also, the Lord refers to sin as an illness. (Mathew 9). That's what needs healed and that's the promise of Isaiah 53.

    Lets examine Mathew chapter 9. The Lords miracle healing in Mathew chapter 9 points to a spiritual truth. Look at the scripture, Christ only heals this man after the Lord is accused of blasphemy. Christ performed this miracles to prove he had power to forgive sin. Look also at his next statement, it reads: "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.". The Lord is referring to sinners here, and they were not sick with any illness. Their illness was sin itself

    I believer that WOF preachers need to be healed of their blindness so they can see the correct interpretation of the scriptures. I don't mean that to be sarcastic but instead is meant in the uttermost seriousness. Jesus did do many healing miracles, but those things are not the promise that is mentioned in Isaiah 53, Mathew 9, or Mathew 13. His miracles are signs that follow apostles and follow Christ, but not all are apostles, and not all are miracle workers. If these WOF preachers were actually anointed they would send their healers to heal you, instead of fleecing the Church for money, using their flawed word of faith doctrine. They tell us to just keep speaking words of faith, just believe enough, and sow more financial seeds. It seems that Gods promise doesn't come cheap, or easy

    Ask yourself, are all sinners sick with physical illness? No. Is physical illness a sign that you are a sinner who needs to repent? No, not necessarily. Our bodies are growing old and our glory will fade like grass in the field. Our promises are found in heaven, that's where death, the ultimate sickness, will be healed. These WOF prosperity preachers keep telling us that if we just speak the word enough, and if we just believe enough, and give them enough money, that we will be healed. This however is just not the truth. If we find healing then that's a good thing, but if we don't then we need not blame ourselves as these WOF preachers do, no we just need to look toward heaven for our redemption.



    Isaiah 53:4 Surely He has borne our griefs
    And carried our sorrows;
    Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
    Smitten by God, and afflicted.
    5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
    He was bruised for our iniquities;
    The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
    And by His stripes we are healed.
    6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
    We have turned, every one, to his own way;
    And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

    Mathew 9:12 When Jesus heard that, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”


    Mathew 13:10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”

    11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

    ‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
    And seeing you will see and not perceive;
    15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
    Their ears are hard of hearing,
    And their eyes they have closed,
    Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
    Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
    So that I should heal them.

    16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it,and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.





    By HIs stripes we were healed. There is no need to keep speaking words of faith, or sow financial seeds. We are already healed. No, instead we need to follow the Lords example, bear our own cross, and walk in love. That's what peter is exhorting us to do in 1 Peter 2. Hes not exhorting us to speak words of faith, sow more financial seeds, or to believe more.


    1 Peter 2:18 Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh. 19 For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully. 20 For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God. 21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us,[f] leaving us[g] an example, that you should follow His steps:

    22 “Who committed no sin,
    Nor was deceit found in His mouth”; [h]
    23 who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously; 24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed. 25 For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2016
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  2. Extraneous

    Extraneous Well-Known Member

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    How many financial seeds do i need sacrifice before i can be healed? How many words of faith do i need to speak? How many years must i keep trying to "just believe more"?


    "But go and learn what this means"

    Mathew 9:12 When Jesus heard that, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

    1 Peter 2:21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us,[f] leaving us[g] an example, that you should follow His steps:
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2016
  3. Extraneous

    Extraneous Well-Known Member

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    The emphasis of Isaiah and 1 Peter 2 is on following the spirit, to help the needy, to bear reproach, to show mercy and to do good. See Isaiah chapter 58 below, it agrees with 1 Peter 2. That will heal our spiritual illnesses. Its not about being in perfect physical health, its about being in perfect spiritual health. Its about bearing fruit of the spirit. Fruit of the spirit is not physical in any way shape or form. Its completely spiritual. Look at the works of flesh and the fruit of the spirit below. There isnt one physical illness mentioned, and no healing of one either. Its all spiritual.


    Isaiah 58:“If you take away the yoke from your midst,
    The pointing of the finger, and speaking wickedness,
    10 If you extend your soul to the hungry
    And satisfy the afflicted soul,
    Then your light shall dawn in the darkness,
    And your darkness shall be as the noonday.
    11 The Lord will guide you continually,
    And satisfy your soul in drought,
    And strengthen your bones;
    You shall be like a watered garden,
    And like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail.


    Galatians 5:13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!

    16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

    6:7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.




    Look at the parable of the sower. This is directly connected to Galatians 5-6. Do you see how its connected? Do we see any physical illness or healing mentioned here? No.

    Mathew 13:18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
     
  4. Extraneous

    Extraneous Well-Known Member

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    Galatians 5:24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

    1 peter 2:21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us,[f] leaving us[g] an example, that you should follow His steps:

    24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.
     
  5. Extraneous

    Extraneous Well-Known Member

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    What words shall we speak then? What is the true Word of faith? They are words of edification, exhortation, and comfort.


    The more excellent way-

    1 Corinthians 12:29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers?Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way

    13:8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

    11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

    13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.


    14:14 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.
     
  6. Extraneous

    Extraneous Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah 58:8 Then your light shall break forth like the morning,
    Your healing shall spring forth speedily,
    And your righteousness shall go before you;
    The glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard.
    9 Then you shall call, and the Lord will answer;
    You shall cry, and He will say, ‘Here I am.’

    13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
    From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
    And call the Sabbath a delight,
    The holy day of the Lord honorable,
    And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
    Nor finding your own pleasure,
    Nor speaking your own words
    ,
    14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
    And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,
    And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father.
    The mouth of the Lord has spoken.
     
  7. Extraneous

    Extraneous Well-Known Member

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    Follow the scriptures here, note where i underlined as well.


    Isaiah 58:“If you take away the yoke from your midst,
    The pointing of the finger, and speaking wickedness,

    Isaiah 58: Nor finding your own pleasure,
    Nor speaking your own words,

    2 Peter 1:22 “Who committed no sin, Nor was deceit found in His mouth”; 23 who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously; 24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed. 25 For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

    Galtians 5:15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!

    16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.



    1 Co 13:8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

    11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

    13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2016
  8. Extraneous

    Extraneous Well-Known Member

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    I surely don't know it all, and i am actually learning myself from this thread. Its blessed me with a bit more understanding than i had before. One thing i do know however, is that word of faith is about putting away our mouth of wickedness, and speaking with love instead. Its about Galatians 5. Its not about speaking declarations of finacial prosperity or physical healing either, and the prommised healing is spiritual not physical
     
  9. Extraneous

    Extraneous Well-Known Member

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    To me, this is the power of Christ. Its found in the resurrection. Its not found in physical healing necessarily, but is found in resurrection and eternal life. This life is not the resurrection, we will surely all die, but the good news is that we will be resurrected into immortality. Just as Paul says, mortality must put on immortality, corruption must put on incorruption.

    1 Corinhtians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh[c] of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.

    40 There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.

    42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.”[d] The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

    53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”[g]

    55 “O Death, where is your sting?[h]
    O Hades, where is your victory?”
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2016
  10. Extraneous

    Extraneous Well-Known Member

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    Romans 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

    From Suffering to Glory
    18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

    38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
     
  11. Extraneous

    Extraneous Well-Known Member

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    Speaking the word, continued...

    Job 2:10... Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?” In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.


    James 5:7 Be patient, then, brothers and sisters, until the Lord’s coming. See how the farmer waits for the land to yield its valuable crop, patiently waiting for the autumn and spring rains. 8 You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord’s coming is near. 9 Don’t grumble against one another, brothers and sisters, or you will be judged. The Judge is standing at the door!

    10 Brothers and sisters, as an example of patience in the face of suffering, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. 11 As you know, we count as blessed those who have persevered. You have heard of Job’s perseverance and have seen what the Lord finally brought about. The Lord is full of compassion and mercy.



    Philippians 3:17 Join together in following my example, brothers and sisters, and just as you have us as a model, keep your eyes on those who live as we do. 18 For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things. 20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2016
  12. Optimax

    Optimax Senior Veteran

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    I preahed this morning on Isa 53:4. Here are my notes,


    Communion - Healing

    1 Cor 11:23-30

    NT:1252 "Discerning"
    used emphatically: to distinguish or separate a person or thing from the rest, (from Thayer's Greek Lexicon,
    NT:1252
    with reference to partaking of the bread and the cup of the Lord's Supper unworthily, by not "discerning" or discriminating what they represent; Vine's
    1 Cor 11:29
    If you give no thought (or worse, don't care) about the broken body of the Master when you eat and drink, you're running the risk of serious consequences. (from THE MESSAGE:

    For if you do not recognize the meaning of the Lord's body when you eat the bread and drink from the cup, you bring judgment on yourself as you eat and drink. Good News T

    For the one who eats and drinks without careful regard for the body eats and drinks judgment against himself.
    (from The New English T Bible

    For any one who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgement to himself, if he fails to estimate the body aright. Wey

    For if he does not recognize the meaning of the Lord's body when he eats the bread and drinks from the cup, he brings judgment on himself as he eats and drinks.
    That is why many of you are sick and weak, and several have died. TEV

    Isa 53 OT:2483 "griefs"
    OT:2483 yl!j( choliy (khol-ee'); from OT:2470; malady, anxiety, calamity:
    KJV - disease, grief, (is) sick (-ness). Strong's
    Used 24 times, four times translated grief, 20 times sickness or disease.
    OT:2483
    The word is translated "grief' in Isa 53:3-4, although it may be better translated "sickness" from Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament.
    Isaiah 53:4
    Surely he hath borne our griefs - literally, 'But yet He hath taken (or borne) our sickness' "Himself took OUR infirmities" (bodily diseases). So Matt 8:17 quotes it.
    Matt 8:17
    He did it to make what the prophet Isaiah had said come true. He had said, “He suffered the things we should have suffered. He took on himself the sicknesses that should have been ours.” (Isa 53:4) NIrV
    WE Associate sin with the cross, we should also automatically associate healing
    These words show that the full penalty of our sin was paid by Jesus. He was perfect. He was bodily afflicted for us, in all our afflictions, that was the ground on which He cured the sick of our human sicknesses. The word "Himself" in Matthew implies a personal bearing on Himself of our weaknesses, spiritual and physical, which included as a consequence His ministration to our bodily ailments. These weaknesses/infirmities, sickness/disease/pain are the results of sin. His bearing on Him our sin involved with it His bearing and healing, the results of that sin which includes sickness, disease and pain.

    1 Peter 2:24
    He personally bore our sins in His [own] body on the tree [as on an altar and offered Himself on it], that we might die (cease to exist) to sin and live to righteousness. By His wounds you have been healed. AMP

    He used his servant body to carry our sins to the Cross so we could be rid of sin, free to live the right way. His wounds became your healing. (from THE MESSAGE:

    Christ carried our sins in his body on the cross so that freed from our sins, we could live a life that has God's approval. His wounds have healed you. (from GOD'S WORD

    Isaiah 53:4
    V. 4. "Verily He hath borne our diseases and our pains: He hath laden them upon Himself; but we regarded Him as one stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted." (from Keil and Delitzsch Commentary on the Old Testament:
    Isa 53:4
    4 Surely He has borne our griefs (sicknesses, weaknesses, and distresses) and carried our sorrows and pains [of punishment], yet we [ignorantly] considered Him stricken, smitten, and afflicted by God [as if with leprosy]. AMP

    But it was our pain he took, and our diseases were put on him: BBE

    In fact, it was our diseases he bore, our pains from which he suffered; CJB

    Yet He Himself bore our sicknesses, and He carried our pains; (from Holman Christian Standard Bible

    But he lifted up our illnesses,(from The NET Bible®,

    Surely he has borne our sickness, World English Bible

    Surely our sicknesses he hath borne, And our pains — he hath carried them, YLT

    2 Cor 5:21 English Standard Version
    For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. ESV

    The effect on Jesus while on the cross when he bore all this.

    Isa 52:14 (53 discourse starts at 52:13)
    Just as many were appalled at him, because he was so disfigured that he didn’t even seem human and simply no longer looked like a man, CJB

    Many were horrified at what happened to him. But everyone who saw him was even more horrified because he suffered until he no longer looked human. CEV

    Many will be shocked by him. His appearance will be so disfigured that he won't look like any other man. His looks will be so disfigured that he will hardly look like a human. GOD'S WORD

    As peoples were surprised at him, And his face was not beautiful, so as to be desired: his face was so changed by disease as to be unlike that of a man, and his form was no longer that of the sons of men. BBE
    WHY ISN'T ALL THIS MORE REPORTED IN SCRIPTURE?
    Matt 27:45
    From noon until three o’clock in the afternoon, all the Land was covered with darkness. CJB

    Mark 1:40-42
    40 A leper came to him, begging on his knees, "If you want to, you can cleanse me."
    41 Deeply moved, Jesus put out his hand, touched him, and said, "I want to. Be clean."
    42 Then and there the leprosy was gone, his skin smooth and healthy. THE MESSAGE:

    Matt 4:24; Matt 12:15; Matt 15:30; Matt 19:2; Mark 6:5; Mark 6:13; Luke 4:40; Luke 6:19; Luke 9:11

    Be aware of the devils "feelers"; the first "tickle" in the throat (cough). The first tinge of soreness in the throat. The first sensation of "stuffy feeling". The first trace of "headache". The first hint of "stomach upset". The first touch of "ache".
    The first sneeze. The first "sniffle". Healing not by begging, pleading, crying, but by faith.

    Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne my sickness, KJV
     
  13. Extraneous

    Extraneous Well-Known Member

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    So let me get this straight. Jesus bore our sicknesses for us, so that means we will be totally free from illness, if we just have enough faith? Wouldn't that also mean that we can be perfectly sinless and perfect as well? Jesus died for our sins, so if you sin then you lack faith, going by your own interpretation. We know however that no one is perfect now, nor will they be in this world.

    We are waiting for the redemption of our bodies, which comes after Resurrection, and then we will be perfectly sinless and free from sickness. So the level of faith that you have subscribed to is impossible to reach. How will you tell me that i lack faith if i am sick, if you cant even be perfectly sinless?

    The truth is that this "illness" mentioned in Isaiah 53 is sin, but is not an actual physical illness. That's the only way it makes any sense. Furthermore, its not saying we will be perfect without ever making another mistake again. That's not grace but legalism.
     
  14. Extraneous

    Extraneous Well-Known Member

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    @Optimax

    The WOF doctrine of "speaking words of faith" is wrong, they actually twist the true meaning of what the bible teaches. Sowing financial seeds is also wrong, we dont sow financial seeds to reap financial rewards. Paul teaches us to pray for all things, not sow seeds for them, and not to speak words of faith for them either. We are taught by James, the Lord and Paul to pray for all things. Furthermore, we are taught to not store wealth on earth so i don't see how christian can say God gave them a million dollars for their personal enjoyment. WOF doctrine seems way off base in just about everything they teach.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2016
  15. Extraneous

    Extraneous Well-Known Member

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    I also don't think that we bring judgement on ourselves when we take communion. Look at the BTK killer who was president of his church. He took communion but still killed people. He didn't get sick. Look at Judas, he partook of the Lords supper and sinned, he didn't get sick, although he did commit suicide. My point is that many sinners take communion and probably sin, and they don't get sick.

    I think, in my humble fallible opinion, that perhaps Paul is actually saying that we bring judgment on ourselves because we are sinning. He says we don't discern the Lords body. He mentions "despising the poor" who have nothing. Its my opinion that they dont discern the fact that when we despise the poor we despise Christ himself, we are not discerning that Christs body is that poor person. Thats the sin. Jesus said that when we give a cup of water to the least of our brethren we are actually giving it to him.

    That's probably the discernment of the Lords body, which paul refers to, in my humble and fallible opinion. Also, i think that perhaps the sickness that results from that lack of discernment is perhaps more sin and more spiritual blindness but not illness itself. We reap what we sow. However, this is just my opinion, im not married to it, but i do ponder it.
     
  16. Optimax

    Optimax Senior Veteran

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    :)
     
  17. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Jesus didn't bear the common cold or the ebola virus for us on the cross.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  18. Optimax

    Optimax Senior Veteran

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    Many believe that and always get colds, the flu and every other virus that comes knocking.
     
  19. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    I'll be sure to let my mom know that the reason she died of cancer is because she just didn't have enough faith.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  20. sunlover1

    sunlover1 Beloved, Let us love one another

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    For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.

    :clap:
    That's exactly what it refers to and you can tell by context
    IMHO
    :crossrc:
    Again, context dictates that He's speaking of physical death:
    For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep.…
     
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