By his stripes, we are healed. Really?

[Guojing]

I'm done playing your shell game.

I am just asking you to put yourself in another person's shoes, in order to understand my point to you.

But if you think its a game I am playing, alright then.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Does God always physically heal everyone who asks?

No

 

[Daniel Marsh]

By what scripture are you establishing that? Or is this just a refutation of scripture? To be clear, I am addressing the content of the post.

53 Who really believed what we heard? Who saw in it the Lord’s great power?[a]

2 He was always close to the Lord. He grew up like a young plant, like a root growing in dry ground. There was nothing special or impressive about the way he looked, nothing we could see that would cause us to like him. 3 People made fun of him, and even his friends left him. He was a man who suffered a lot of pain and sickness. We treated him like someone of no importance, like someone people will not even look at but turn away from in disgust.

4 The fact is, it was our suffering he took on himself; he bore our pain. But we thought that God was punishing him, that God was beating him for something he did. 5 But he was being punished for what we did. He was crushed because of our guilt. He took the punishment we deserved, and this brought us peace. We were healed because of his pain. 6 We had all wandered away like sheep. We had gone our own way. And yet the Lord put all our guilt on him.

7 He was treated badly, but he never protested. He said nothing, like a lamb being led away to be killed. He was like a sheep that makes no sound as its wool is being cut off. He never opened his mouth to defend himself. 8 He was taken away by force and judged unfairly. The people of his time did not even notice that he was killed. But he was put to death[c] for the sins of his[d] people. 9 He had done no wrong to anyone. He had never even told a lie. But he was buried among the wicked. His tomb was with the rich.

10 But the Lord was pleased with this humble servant who suffered such pain.[e] Even after giving himself as an offering for sin, he will see his descendants and enjoy a long life. He will succeed in doing what the Lord wanted. 11 After his suffering he will see the light,[f] and he will be satisfied with what he experienced.

The Lord says, “My servant, who always does what is right, will make his people right with me; he will take away their sins. 12 For this reason, I will treat him as one of my great people. I will give him the rewards of one who wins in battle, and he will share them with his powerful ones. I will do this because he gave his life for the people. He was considered a criminal, but the truth is, he carried away the sins of many. Now he will stand before me and speak for those who have sinned.”

 

[Daniel Marsh]

You could have a follow up question

"Does God always saves everyone who believes in the gospel"

No, when the belief is only head knowledge or not genuine faith.

 

[Guojing]

No, when the belief is only head knowledge or not genuine faith.

How would you then define genuine faith?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Healing is part of the atonement and the stripes were physical.

Like forgiveness is given and the propensity for sin remains, so healing is at times given and the propensity for sickness remains.

But as you say, until resurrection time it is partial in application until we are resurrected and made anew on that wonderful day.

1 Peter 2
Easy-to-Read Version
The Living Stone and the Holy Nation
2 So then, stop doing anything to hurt others. Don’t lie anymore, and stop trying to fool people. Don’t be jealous or say bad things about others. 2 Like newborn babies hungry for milk, you should want the pure teaching that feeds your spirit. With it you can grow up and be saved. 3 You have already tasted the goodness of the Lord.

4 The Lord Jesus is the living stone.[a] The people of the world decided that they did not want this stone. But he is the one God chose as one of great value. So come to him. 5 You also are like living stones, and God is using you to build a spiritual house.[] You are to serve God in this house as holy priests, offering him spiritual sacrifices that he will accept because of Jesus Christ. 6 The Scriptures say,

“Look, I have chosen a cornerstone of great value,
and I put that stone in Zion.
Anyone who trusts in him will never be disappointed.”

7 So, that stone brings honor for you who believe. But for those who don’t believe he is

“the stone that the builders refused to accept,
which became the most important stone.”

8 For them he is also

“a stone that makes people stumble,
a rock that makes people fall.”

People stumble because they don’t obey what God says. This is what God planned to happen to those people.

9 But you are his chosen people, the King’s priests. You are a holy nation, people who belong to God. He chose you to tell about the wonderful things he has done. He brought you out of the darkness of sin into his wonderful light.

10 In the past you were not a special people,
but now you are God’s people.
Once you had not received mercy,
but now God has given you his mercy.[c]

Live for God
11 Dear friends, you are like visitors and strangers in this world. So I beg you to keep your lives free from the evil things you want to do, those desires that fight against your true selves. 12 People who don’t believe are living all around you. They may say that you are doing wrong. So live such good lives that they will see the good you do, and they will give glory to God on the day he comes.

Obey Every Human Authority
13 Be willing to serve the people who have authority[d] in this world. Do this for the Lord. Obey the king, the highest authority. 14 And obey the leaders who are sent by the king. They are sent to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do good. 15 When you do good, you stop ignorant people from saying foolish things about you. This is what God wants. 16 Live like free people, but don’t use your freedom as an excuse to do evil. Live as those who are serving God. 17 Show respect for all people. Love your brothers and sisters in God’s family. Respect God, and honor the king.

The Example of Christ’s Suffering
18 Slaves, be willing to serve your masters. Do this with all respect. You should obey the masters who are good and kind, and you should obey the masters who are bad. 19 One of you might have to suffer even when you have done nothing wrong. If you think of God and bear the pain, this pleases God. 20 But if you are punished for doing wrong, there is no reason to praise you for bearing that punishment. But if you suffer for doing good and you are patient, this pleases God. 21 This is what you were chosen to do. Christ gave you an example to follow. He suffered for you. So you should do the same as he did:

22 “He never sinned,
and he never told a lie.”

23 People insulted him, but he did not insult them back. He suffered, but he did not threaten anyone. No, he let God take care of him. God is the one who judges rightly. 24 Christ carried our sins in his body on the cross. He did this so that we would stop living for sin and live for what is right. By his wounds you were healed. 25 You were like sheep that went the wrong way. But now you have come back to the Shepherd and Protector of your lives.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

How would you then define genuine faith?

James 2:14-26

Faith and Good Works​

My brothers and sisters, if a person claims to have faith but does nothing, that faith is worth nothing. Faith like that cannot save anyone. Suppose a brother or sister in Christ comes to you in need of clothes or something to eat. And you say to them, “God be with you! I hope you stay warm and get plenty to eat,” but you don’t give them the things they need. If you don’t help them, your words are worthless. ...
...
James 2:18
But someone might argue, “Some people have faith, and others have good works.” My answer would be that you can’t show me your faith if you don’t do anything. But I will show you my faith by the good I do.

 

[Guojing]

James 2:14-26

Faith and Good Works​

My brothers and sisters, if a person claims to have faith but does nothing, that faith is worth nothing. Faith like that cannot save anyone. Suppose a brother or sister in Christ comes to you in need of clothes or something to eat. And you say to them, “God be with you! I hope you stay warm and get plenty to eat,” but you don’t give them the things they need. If you don’t help them, your words are worthless. ...
...
James 2:18
But someone might argue, “Some people have faith, and others have good works.” My answer would be that you can’t show me your faith if you don’t do anything. But I will show you my faith by the good I do.

Ahh, thanks for the clarity there.

 

[jiminpa]

53 Who really believed what we heard? Who saw in it the Lord’s great power?[a]

2 He was always close to the Lord. He grew up like a young plant, like a root growing in dry ground. There was nothing special or impressive about the way he looked, nothing we could see that would cause us to like him. 3 People made fun of him, and even his friends left him. He was a man who suffered a lot of pain and sickness. We treated him like someone of no importance, like someone people will not even look at but turn away from in disgust.

4 The fact is, it was our suffering he took on himself; he bore our pain. But we thought that God was punishing him, that God was beating him for something he did. 5 But he was being punished for what we did. He was crushed because of our guilt. He took the punishment we deserved, and this brought us peace. We were healed because of his pain. 6 We had all wandered away like sheep. We had gone our own way. And yet the Lord put all our guilt on him.

7 He was treated badly, but he never protested. He said nothing, like a lamb being led away to be killed. He was like a sheep that makes no sound as its wool is being cut off. He never opened his mouth to defend himself. 8 He was taken away by force and judged unfairly. The people of his time did not even notice that he was killed. But he was put to death[c] for the sins of his[d] people. 9 He had done no wrong to anyone. He had never even told a lie. But he was buried among the wicked. His tomb was with the rich.

10 But the Lord was pleased with this humble servant who suffered such pain.[e] Even after giving himself as an offering for sin, he will see his descendants and enjoy a long life. He will succeed in doing what the Lord wanted. 11 After his suffering he will see the light,[f] and he will be satisfied with what he experienced.

The Lord says, “My servant, who always does what is right, will make his people right with me; he will take away their sins. 12 For this reason, I will treat him as one of my great people. I will give him the rewards of one who wins in battle, and he will share them with his powerful ones. I will do this because he gave his life for the people. He was considered a criminal, but the truth is, he carried away the sins of many. Now he will stand before me and speak for those who have sinned.”

I've read that in quite a few better translations, and it does not refute that healing is physical and real. That translation is just painful to read, and really vague sounding.

 

[Bobber]

Do you understand what I meant when I said,

Under the law, if you are sick, it is because you disobeyed God. (Deuteronomy 7:15, Exodus 15:26)

So if God no longer relates to us under the Law (Romans 6:14, 1 Timothy 1:9), there is no connection between being sick and disobedience to God.

You are free to disagree with that reasoning, I am just asking whether you understood those scripture references

I believe I understood what you meant yes.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Believers not healed and not in health?
I ask this simple question:
Have you discerned the Lord's body? Do you know why He received stripes? When you take the bread in communion, do you know what that body represents? We know the wine represents the blood. What about the bread? And why, when people do not understand why the body had to be beaten and scourged, do people become sick, weak, and die young?
So the first thing I ask is, do they know why His body was beaten and scourged?
If they do not know, or if they deny the truth of it, then that will be the first reason they are sick, weak, and even die young.
That is where you start.
There are other reasons, but the will/provision of God is not one of them. If you deny or are ignorant of the provision of God. Then there it is.

How many here deny the fact that healing is included in the atonement? Like salvation, you receive it by faith. If you deny or are ignorant of the blood, you are lost. If you deny or are ignorant of the body, you could be sick, weak, and die young.
I am not sure what the issue is. It is plain as day!