• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Build a fence on the Mexican border!

ACougar

U.S. Army Retired
Feb 7, 2003
16,795
1,295
Arizona
Visit site
✟45,452.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
nvxplorer said:
What’s infuriating is that the IRS and SS Administration already know which numbers are bogus. They have refused to give this information to law enforcement under the claim of privacy.

Don't buy it, the reason they can't hand over the information is because that's the way the laws have been written by politicians who are in the pockets of big bussiness.
 
Upvote 0

ACougar

U.S. Army Retired
Feb 7, 2003
16,795
1,295
Arizona
Visit site
✟45,452.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
JustOneWay said:
Why? What is stopping us? We are doing a wiz-bang job over in Iraq. I think Mexico has WMD's:eek: it is as easy as that!

the uniter

the decider

the reformer

think of it as another state:p

I was thinking more along the lines of rewarding honest politicians with grants, however I don't think that would work. The whole American Empire Neo-con thing is too disgusting to even consider. All we can do is pray they reform and be there to help them when they do.
 
Upvote 0

LaLaRu

Active Member
Apr 11, 2006
199
29
Madison, WI
✟22,989.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Green
arnegrim said:
As to the fence... again... those who want to ignore our immigration laws won't care if it's easier... because walking across the border is still the easiest route... and shouldn't be.
???

Currently, people who risk border crossings are risking their lives. I'm sure if they could just fill out some paperwork isntead that they would gladly take that route.
 
Upvote 0

arnegrim

...still not convinced it was the wrong one.
Jun 2, 2004
4,852
140
California
✟28,223.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
LaLaRu said:
???

Currently, people who risk border crossings are risking their lives. I'm sure if they could just fill out some paperwork isntead that they would gladly take that route.

Really? Then why don't they do that?
 
Upvote 0

HouseApe

Senior Veteran
Sep 30, 2004
2,426
188
Florida
✟3,485.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
LaLaRu said:
???

Currently, people who risk border crossings are risking their lives. I'm sure if they could just fill out some paperwork isntead that they would gladly take that route.

I think that misses the point. Companies don't want to hire legal immigrants. You have to pay minimum wage, withhold taxes, provide a safe working environment and generally treat them like you would a citizen. You might as well hire a citizen.

The market is for illegals. There is no value to being legal.

That is why Bush is pushing so hard for a guest worker program. Few will sign up for it, the illegals will still come and get the jobs, but he can act like he did something.
 
Upvote 0

LaLaRu

Active Member
Apr 11, 2006
199
29
Madison, WI
✟22,989.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Green
arnegrim said:
Really? Then why don't they do that?
Because there's not enough spots to enter legally. Hence the "expand legal immigration" thing you were talking about.
HouseApe said:
I think that misses the point. Companies don't want to hire legal immigrants. You have to pay minimum wage, withhold taxes, provide a safe working environment and generally treat them like you would a citizen. You might as well hire a citizen.

The market is for illegals. There is no value to being legal.
So crack down on the companies. That'll be much easier and cheaper than building and maintaining a huge wall. We should not use extreme measures untill less extreme measures are exhausted.
 
Upvote 0

arnegrim

...still not convinced it was the wrong one.
Jun 2, 2004
4,852
140
California
✟28,223.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
LaLaRu said:
Because there's not enough spots to enter legally. Hence the "expand legal immigration" thing you were talking about.

There are 35 currently... how many more do you think we need?!?
 
Upvote 0

LaLaRu

Active Member
Apr 11, 2006
199
29
Madison, WI
✟22,989.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Green
arnegrim said:
There are 35 currently... how many more do you think we need?!?
Uh . . . 35 what, methods of immigration? We just need ONE way of legal immigration that's cheaper and easier than treking across miles of desert wilderness.
 
Upvote 0

SisterGeoff

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2004
807
63
43
Visit site
✟23,764.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
HouseApe said:
I think that misses the point. Companies don't want to hire legal immigrants. You have to pay minimum wage, withhold taxes, provide a safe working environment and generally treat them like you would a citizen. You might as well hire a citizen.

The market is for illegals. There is no value to being legal.

That is why Bush is pushing so hard for a guest worker program. Few will sign up for it, the illegals will still come and get the jobs, but he can act like he did something.

Actually I would venture that the "guest worker" program is aimed at making the benifits of hiring illegals, not having to pay them even minimum wage, giving no benifits what so ever etc, aviable in a legal framework. It's really a disaster in the making for us working stiffs because why would you want to hire an american who actually exspects to be paid well and perhaps given some sort of benifits package when you can just import, legally, mexicans to do the work for half the wage and no benifits at all.
 
Upvote 0

CaligulaNero

Veteran
Aug 25, 2005
1,526
95
51
South
✟24,685.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
If these people were white this wouldn't even be an issue. I'd gladly deport 10 lazy white trash rednecks for an equal number of hard working mexicans. In any event, it doesn't matter what our official policy is, they will still keep coming so long as wages are low in Mexico and there is a demand for their labor. Immigration laws work about as good as drug laws.
 
Upvote 0

CaligulaNero

Veteran
Aug 25, 2005
1,526
95
51
South
✟24,685.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
"Quick, everyone, hide behind the race card!"

Quick hide behind the nationalist card! All I've gotten from illegal immigration is cheap gardening and decent mexican food. That's better than what I can get from most of the "native" population. I'm a liberatarian- I say open the borders and allow true competition.
 
Upvote 0

Glaz

Obama '08
Jun 22, 2004
6,233
552
✟31,637.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
CaligulaNero said:
"Quick, everyone, hide behind the race card!"

Quick hide behind the nationalist card! All I've gotten from illegal immigration is cheap gardening and decent mexican food. That's better than what I can get from most of the "native" population. I'm a liberatarian- I say open the borders and allow true competition.

Not a nationalist, I just hate it when people try to boil everything down to racism so the issues don't hurt their brains too much.
 
Upvote 0

arnegrim

...still not convinced it was the wrong one.
Jun 2, 2004
4,852
140
California
✟28,223.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
LaLaRu said:
Uh . . . 35 what, methods of immigration? We just need ONE way of legal immigration that's cheaper and easier than treking across miles of desert wilderness.

35 points of entry.

There is an easier way... go to a checkpoint.

Curious... if all we need are more points of entry... why are there illegals that run across at the checkpoints?
 
Upvote 0

arnegrim

...still not convinced it was the wrong one.
Jun 2, 2004
4,852
140
California
✟28,223.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
CaligulaNero said:
"Quick, everyone, hide behind the race card!"

Quick hide behind the nationalist card! All I've gotten from illegal immigration is cheap gardening and decent mexican food. That's better than what I can get from most of the "native" population. I'm a liberatarian- I say open the borders and allow true competition.

Funny... I've got bankrupt hospitals... failing school systems... maybe I need to move to where you are.
 
Upvote 0

nvxplorer

Senior Contributor
Jun 17, 2005
10,569
451
✟35,675.00
Faith
Atheist
Politics
US-Others
CaligulaNero said:
If these people were white this wouldn't even be an issue. I'd gladly deport 10 lazy white trash rednecks for an equal number of hard working mexicans.
Right. We all know that whites are lazy, and Mexicans are hard working.
In any event, it doesn't matter what our official policy is, they will still keep coming so long as wages are low in Mexico and there is a demand for their labor. Immigration laws work about as good as drug laws.
Incorrect. No law works if not enforced. And therein lies the rub. Drug laws are largely unenforceable because they involve private transactions between willing parties. Employers and illegal workers are willing as well, but the government has thus far failed to take action against those using forged identification, and those who accept it for employment. Immigration law is fully enforceable.
 
Upvote 0

nvxplorer

Senior Contributor
Jun 17, 2005
10,569
451
✟35,675.00
Faith
Atheist
Politics
US-Others
HouseApe said:
I think that misses the point. Companies don't want to hire legal immigrants. You have to pay minimum wage, withhold taxes, provide a safe working environment and generally treat them like you would a citizen. You might as well hire a citizen.

The market is for illegals. There is no value to being legal.

That is why Bush is pushing so hard for a guest worker program. Few will sign up for it, the illegals will still come and get the jobs, but he can act like he did something.
This does not describe the environment in my area. No one makes minimum wage. All the illegals use forged/stolen documentation. With fake ID readily available, who would work for minimum wage?
 
Upvote 0

HouseApe

Senior Veteran
Sep 30, 2004
2,426
188
Florida
✟3,485.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
nvxplorer said:
This does not describe the environment in my area. No one makes minimum wage. All the illegals use forged/stolen documentation. With fake ID readily available, who would work for minimum wage?

In my area (Florida), most illegals work for far less than the minimum wage, do not use fake anything (their is no chance of getting caught), and half the time get what little was promised stolen from them.
 
Upvote 0