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buddhism, meditaiton and middle classes

GrowingSmaller

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The Western middle class intellect seems to be besotted with buddhism, from Einstein to Sam Harris. But how many of them actually are true buddihists, rather than recommending it to other people?


Meditation is ok yes, agreed. But the focus on the "inner life" may leave one abandoning decisions and responsibility for the "outer world", or IOW leaving it to the Western middle class. But buddhism is more than meditation.

I wouldnt mind so much if they didnt get habitually drunk on pinot gritio, or chardonnay. The fact that buddhists are not meant get intoxicated (IIRC its part of buddhist ethics, part of the 8 fold path) makes me think I 'smell a rat':

"Ill get drunk, you forget about the mess we're in and meditate instead." Sound familiar?
 
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GrowingSmaller

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Inkyfingers. The individualist idea you're responsible for your own salvation. I dunno, there was a prison experiemnt - meditation helped to lessen offending rates. The Christians complained abot "faith from above" or whatever. Lessen violence, but our way. Lessen violence. Which is good, but I have been recommended buddhism by social workers, doctors etc - but its not that fulfilling. I used to practce meditation, visitng a monastary, but socially it was isolating - the "sangha" (Buddhist community) werent really there for me, so I turned to loose living as an alternative like many of my compeers. I was "on my own" struggling for virtue in a social vaccuum. So I have been there, done that, unlike some of our so called "experts". On paper Buddhism is a good faith, I agree, but on the ground I dont like it so much. Yet it seems "politically correct" for people in authority to advise or commend it. Its a good religion.


J HAidt (American psychologuist) IIRC in "Happiness Hypothesis" (book) advises meditation increases well being or happiness levels. But alchhol, I dont think that the middle class suffer directly from alcohol related violence that much, buit in the UK where I life there are horrible issues, ambulances lined up outside of nightclubs in some cases. Killer one off punches. Lives ruined. So I see the wisdom in some of the other aspects of the 8 fold path, but I think that the linked in "kings and queens" of the middle class, who are the power mongers and role models in our democracy with their groovy cars and 10 blade razors, the dominant class, want to keep their tipple (drink) safe. So its a case of whats good for the goose is not so good for the gander.

Not sure what the exact philosophy is here, but get creative...
 
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Inkfingers

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Inkyfingers. The individualist idea you're responsible for your own salvation. I dunno, there was a prison experiemnt - meditation helped to lessen offending rates. The Christians complained abot "faith from above" or whatever. Lessen violencem, but our way. Which is good, but I have been recommended buddhism by social workers, doctors etc - but its not that fulfilling. I used to practce meditation, visitng a monastary, but socially it was isolating - the "sangha" (Buddhist community) werent really there for me, so I turned to loose living as an alternative like may compeers. So I have been there, done that, unlike some of our so called "experts". On paper Buddhism is a good faith, I agree, but on the ground I dont like it so much. Yet it seems "politically correct" for people in authority to advise or commend it. Its a good religion.


J HAidt (American psychologuist) IIRC in "Happiness Hypothesis" (book) advises meditation increases well being or happiness levels. But alchhol, I dont think that the middle class suffer directly from alcohol related violence that much, buit in the UK where I life there are horrible issues, ambulances lined up outside of nightclubs in some cases. Killer one off punches. Lives ruined. So I see the wisdom in some of the other aspects of the 8 fold path, but I thin that "kings and queens" of the middle class, who are the power mongers and role models in our democracty, want to keep their tipple (drink) safe. So its a case of whats good for the goose is not so good for the gander.

Ah, I think I may be beginning to see what you are saying here....that meditation and Buddhism is being promoted by the middleclasses to others as an alternative to alcohol whilst the middleclasses themselves only pay lip-service to such and keep with the vino instead?

Hmmm.

There may be an element of truth in that, but not much. Yes, Buddhism is flavour of the month (especially "mindfulness"), and yes there is a huge problem with drunkenness in Britain (as there has been for centuries in all norther european cultures - dark cold and wet tends to make people miserable). But is it fair to say that the middle-classes are pushing Buddhism on some whilst somehow keeping all the booze for themselves? Not really.

There is certainly some lip-service paid to Buddhism amongst the knit-your-own-muesli set, with it being the acceptable religion in a social class known for its hatred of home and love of the "other", but is that a class conspiracy? I don't think so.

And lets face it; if people meditated more and drank less that would certainly be a good thing. :thumbsup:
 
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GrowingSmaller

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Thanks for the reality check. I dont belive in class conspiracy, more good intentions but incompetence. The middle classes like to live in cuddly villages. There s a shia saying, if the intelligent leave, then the blind will lead the blind basically. Its not so much meditaiton is seen as an alternative to alcohol, but a cure for social ills (poor mental health etc), whilst their example is missing due to either hypocricy - do as we say not as we do - or the class system (well do it but miles away where were safer).
 
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Inkfingers

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Thanks for the reality check. I dont belive in class conspiracy, more good intentions but incompetence. The middle classes like to live in cuddly villages. There s a shia saying, if the intelligent leave, then the blind will lead the blind basically.

People are leaving towns partially because it is now higher status to live in the countryside. It used to be that towns were higher status, but when towns drew in hoi polloi by the thousand the towns became their realm instead....so the affluent moved back out to the countryside again.

People are also leaving towns because towns are horrible places to live; not least from the antics of the labouring classes who live little better than animals (into which behaviour many of the middleclass are degenerating into as well). Go to a urban highsteet and you will find the lower classes (along with the degenerate wing of the middle and upper classes) getting out of their heads and filling the street with vomit and violence. Anyone with more than half a brain wishes to escape that environment.

The mob became so big and so empowered (ironically by ignorant members of the middleclasses; who needed a massive market for the good they make their money by selling, and who pushed suffrage for the ill-educated) that it cannot be controlled. All that can be done with it is sate its appetite with debauched entertainment; like feeding the dragon that threatens the village.

Some seek to slay the dragon though; not least by hoping it can learn self-denial and self-discipline (hence the pushing of Buddhism). Whether they can achieve that or not is unknown, but it is not necessarily a conspiracy try and educate people out of the vileness that has become their norm.
 
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Gottservant

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Sorry, what?

Well, meditation is something constructive that I do on a regular basis.

To me, who actually practices meditation, I can understand where the people who advocate it are coming from (but you I do not understand?)
 
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Inkfingers

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Well, meditation is something constructive that I do on a regular basis.

To me, who actually practices meditation, I can understand where the people who advocate it are coming from (but you I do not understand?)

Sorry, I still don't understand what it is you are getting at. Say it plainly instead of playing cosmic word games. :)
 
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Gottservant

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Sorry, I still don't understand what it is you are getting at. Say it plainly instead of playing cosmic word games. :)

I meditate.

People who advocate meditation are good.

What purpose does your equivocation truly serve?
 
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Inkfingers

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Yes meditaion can be good for us. Maybe we should teach mindfulness in schools. Not through compulsion, but as an open option. Yoga too.

Yes, I would rather they taught meditation in schools than did not do so. Mindfulness can be a good and godly thing, if done right (such as avoiding the people who think it means focusing on what you are doing - that being what we all did when we learnt to drive, and wasn't our driving awful because of it).
 
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Ana the Ist

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Inkyfingers. The individualist idea you're responsible for your own salvation. I dunno, there was a prison experiemnt - meditation helped to lessen offending rates. The Christians complained abot "faith from above" or whatever. Lessen violence, but our way. Lessen violence. Which is good, but I have been recommended buddhism by social workers, doctors etc - but its not that fulfilling. I used to practce meditation, visitng a monastary, but socially it was isolating - the "sangha" (Buddhist community) werent really there for me, so I turned to loose living as an alternative like many of my compeers. I was "on my own" struggling for virtue in a social vaccuum. So I have been there, done that, unlike some of our so called "experts". On paper Buddhism is a good faith, I agree, but on the ground I dont like it so much. Yet it seems "politically correct" for people in authority to advise or commend it. Its a good religion.


J HAidt (American psychologuist) IIRC in "Happiness Hypothesis" (book) advises meditation increases well being or happiness levels. But alchhol, I dont think that the middle class suffer directly from alcohol related violence that much, buit in the UK where I life there are horrible issues, ambulances lined up outside of nightclubs in some cases. Killer one off punches. Lives ruined. So I see the wisdom in some of the other aspects of the 8 fold path, but I think that the linked in "kings and queens" of the middle class, who are the power mongers and role models in our democracy with their groovy cars and 10 blade razors, the dominant class, want to keep their tipple (drink) safe. So its a case of whats good for the goose is not so good for the gander.

Not sure what the exact philosophy is here, but get creative...

So...

You think Buddhism is being used as a tool by those in power to pacify and placate the masses?
 
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GrowingSmaller

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It would not be a bad idea if they were. Yet, I still think that the wertern powers that be really like Buddhism, just look at the attention given to the Dalai Lama - a "man of peace", even though reports say he supressed other cults (or does so) when in power. But how many of there so called advocates actually practice the faith? I think that buddhism, unlike Islam, doen't have thoughts set on interfering with the secular project of democratic governement. Look at images of buddhists in the news, and theyre all or mostly positive.


The recent bbc news intros had images of buddhist monks not once but twice. Its fair that imagery represent our allies and contemporary relations with faith groups, yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by06IJR5AxU

I am waiting for the dalai lama to die (sadly it will be, as for all of us), so we can see what the Chinese nominated and prepared veriosn says. That will be true secularist buddhism. How could the authorities interfere, shock horror - unless its our authorities? I am not anti authority though, just going through some ideas.

It seems fair that people want to protect their civil rights etc, including freedom to religion. And their right not to be blown up by radicals, too.

Yet I resent peole playing chess with the population, and making their minds up for them. Because if you ask any authority "Aare you trying to socially engineer opinion etc?" they would probably deny it outright. Thats not playing fair, if there is disguise. And thats a great line of reasoning for radicals to exploit.

Personally I think more faiths ought be given airtime, not just the "big hitters" - its no good that a faith has blasted its way into the media through war and terror. I think that quiet minorities matter too and deserve a mention is free and fair society. So what about bahai, hindu, and sikhs getting a mention too? And the good works of charities in general, and secular peole trying to keep us on an even keel.


Also, if people accept that Muslims for example can do good (I was on a Muslim forum some years ago and media studies showed that (IIRC) over 95% of imagery if muslims was negative), would that be too much of a threat? As Sting sung "The Russians love their children too."

I think that peace psychology experts have discussed polarisation and propoganda in wartime, that the media can help to ramp up tensions by negativistic coverage. Politicians claim the radicals are trying to "divide us", but what about the journalists?

I recently read how "art films " at cannes festival nominated mostly films critical of our political rivals. Persopolis might be one, about life in Iran, but I have never seen it. Communists have told me how the Chinese "economic miracle" involved the peoples health care and pension rights being taken away, etc. Its just too much at times.

I am not sure, but even philosophy - the shias have a wide range of thinkers - but mention of "muslm philosophy " in western (oxford, cambridge I have looked at) encyclopedeas is minimal, and normally floats around al kindi, ghazalli, and a couple of others. Not sure, but they may be presented as "failed westerners".

When youre out of work its plain enough that the public are "programmed" to say, ok when is your next visit to the job centre? I even do it to my friends. But faith programming, thats more mysterious, mason and uilluminati, tin foil hat territory.
 
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