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Don't worry, I'm sure things will get more lively at the end of september.Things have gone very quiet since the extension till end October was agreed. A lot of people are fed up with BREXIT but right now our futures are still wide open and revocation, hard Brexit or indeed soft BREXIT remain on the table. We have no cause to relax and just leave this till the last minute again even if the European elections are going to be the next chapter in the story
Don't worry, I'm sure things will get more lively at the end of september.
The last thread seems to have been closed by mods but this is still a live issue. But please keep things civil.
So new question:
Would the revocation of Britains intention to leave the EU be undemocratic?
Should it happen or not?
Got this email from government this morning:
This Government will not revoke Article 50. We will honour the result of the 2016 referendum and work with Parliament to deliver a deal that ensures we leave the European Union. It remains the Government’s firm policy not to revoke Article 50. We will honour the outcome of the 2016 referendum and work to deliver an exit which benefits everyone, whether they voted to Leave or to Remain. Revoking Article 50, and thereby remaining in the European Union, would undermine both our democracy and the trust that millions of voters have placed in Government. The Government acknowledges the considerable number of people who have signed this petition. However, close to three quarters of the electorate took part in the 2016 referendum, trusting that the result would be respected. This Government wrote to every household prior to the referendum, promising that the outcome of the referendum would be implemented. 17.4 million people then voted to leave the European Union, providing the biggest democratic mandate for any course of action ever directed at UK Government. British people cast their votes once again in the 2017 General Election where over 80% of those who voted, voted for parties, including the Opposition, who committed in their manifestos to upholding the result of the referendum. This Government stands by this commitment. Revoking Article 50 would break the promises made by Government to the British people, disrespect the clear instruction from a democratic vote, and in turn, reduce confidence in our democracy. As the Prime Minister has said, failing to deliver Brexit would cause “potentially irreparable damage to public trust”, and it is imperative that people can trust their Government to respect their votes and deliver the best outcome for them.
Revoking it without a referendum would be undemocratic. Laying out the possible outcomes and existing effects to date of leaving the EU and then holding another referendum wouldn't be. In 1975 67% of the voting public chose to join the EU in the first referendum, in the 2nd 51% voted to leave, I see no good reason not to have a third vote now that some of the results of leaving can already be seen and the future is not looking rosy. It is apparent that while the leading Brexiteers are going to profit handsomely from it, the rest of the UK - until it is no longer the UK but 2 separate countries and a former NI - is unlikely to do well. The choice of 17m of English people shouldn't be enough to drag the other 50+ million of citizens into an uncertain future without a say in it.
In a way that Referendum is the European election. That looks like being won hands down by pro-BREXIT parties. There would be no case for Revocation if that were case and we are back to considering how BREXIT will happen i.e. with or without a deal. Given the parliamentary paralysis it looks like a no deal BREXIT is the most likely scenario at the present time.
In regard to euro elections Nigel #£&*@#£ Farage Brexit party looks like it’s absorbing the leave vote whilst the remain vote has fragmented.it will be June till she leaves 10 Downing Street but yes the process has begun. It seems the challenge of BREXIT has been her undoing and remains a poisoned chalice to pass to her successor. If a pro Hard Brexiteer wins I guess they will have to play the parliamentary disagreement game until time runs out on 31st October as they will not secure a majority for that. But a more moderate candidate would have to reach out to Corbyn and whatever they agreed would probably be rejected by the right of the Tory party.
We have yet to see the result of the EU election but it seems to me that the Tories have been identified on the BREXIT side while Labour voters are more inclined to be remainers despite Corbyns position. So thinking ahead to the next election Tories may be tempted to support a BREXIT implementer and Labour might be tempted to get rid of Corbyn.
Since I want revocation and do not want Corbyn anywhere near No. 10 it is really hard to see what the best outcome is.
In regard to euro elections Nigel #£&*@#£ Farage Brexit party looks like it’s absorbing the leave vote whilst the remain vote has fragmented.
I hope Jacob Rees-Mogg is appointed the new leader of conservatives.
He actually stands for something.He is a family man still married to his wife and father to his children, he is catholic, pro-life and voted for Biblical marriage in the ''gay marriage'' vote in parliament.
If there is any other candidate that is closer to a Christian representative than Mogg I am not aware of them.
The reason he is hated and mocked so viciously by the left wing media and people is because he is a Godly man with admirable qualities,the left wing is the haven of degeneracy and satanic attributes and will never accept his Christian nature.
I wish Jacob the best of luck.
God bless.
Yes the mans character is admirable and actually most of the church in the UK seem pro-BREXIT. That puzzles me I must admit. It seems to me the less introverted and selfish option to belong to the larger team of Europe though and the real motives for BREXIT politics are about immigration and control rather than restoring a Christian outlook to the country.
It's simple, is the EU project Christ centred in its motive or not?
Or to break it down to costs and benefits,how does Britain being involved in the EU in its current state benefit Christian people?
Consider these things. I think the intake of a large amount (million) of active non-believers (muslims) into Germany by merkel, making them citizens and then giving them free movement into Britain is fundamentally against Christ.And we have no say over it,so we put up with it and pay the cost or change it and move to a Christ friendly direction.The EU project in its nature is not working to strengthen Christs message but eliminate it through secularism and ''equality'' which is the social tenant of communism. State control, no independent rights.
If there is any benefits to Christian people, to our faith, then feel free to tell us but at this moment in time off the top of my head I cant think of any.
Well no state on earth passes that test with the possible exception of the Vatican and various rare historical examples like Britain under Alfred or in the nineteenth century, the Franks under Charlemagne, , Imperial Spain and the Byzantine Empire. The Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem just after its foundation after the First Crusade might be another example.
But let me put it another way. Is the EU looking after the common good of all its citizens and not just the rich 1%. Is it a place where you can worship Christ freely? Answer to both those questions would be yes.
Britain in my experience has far more restrictions on Christian freedom of speech than just about any time in its history since King Alfred. It is becoming harder and harder to speak out against gay marriage, abortion and false religions , witchcraft and weird occultic monsters dominate the media and literature. Is this a country that can save itself.
It makes us a member of a larger community in which a proper perspective on national hangups is possible, in which prosperity, freedom and the rule of law can spread to countries that suffered previously under Communism
The first premise of the German Grundgesetz (Its constitution) is the inviolability of the individual. Freedom of opinion, of speech and of religion is built into the constitution of the country. Germans are not afflicted by the political correctness that has perverted the media, schools and companies of Britain into organs of propaganda for LGBT and False religion. The secularism in modern Britain and Germany is an issue but not an insurmountable one. I am not sure why Britain thinks it has to deal with alone and isolated from the churches of Europe. No shops are open here on a Sunday, I celebrate more Christian bank holidays than you do living in Germany and Christianity is written into the test for German nationality as being the shaping force of European culture. The German understanding of economics is the Social Market. Basically that is moderated capitalism. So Germany is not as unequal as Britain or as America in terms of salaries. Can you really justify a CEO being paid 1000 times more than an IT expert in Christian terms.
My church have welcomed many of the refugees you dismiss as worthless to the German and European culture. Many have become Christians, some were Christians and have fled persecution and been granted Asylum. Some are Muslims who are fed up with Islams continual infighting and its oppressive and impoverishing national cultures, They are looking for peace with safety for their children and the chance of a better life. It is not a Christian thing to put up a wall against such people. It is the key to opening the door to the Muslim world and bringing the whole rotten edifice crashing down, just as Communism and innumerable other religions have fallen before it in the face of Christian witnesses.
Well the list above is a start
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