Breaking the commandments

[gadar perets]

What ritual is commanded by God?

One example would be the actions performed by the high priest on Yom Kippurim.

 

[visionary]

One example would be the actions performed by the high priest on Yom Kippurim.

I do not think these are a ritual. It is a rehearsal. It is being played out every Yom Kippur, but one day the reality will occur, it will be really happening and the timing of everything will according to the what is revealed in the Yom Kippur "ritual" as you call it. But to me nothing God has put in place is a ritual. It is not meaningless to Him. It is vitally important that we learn from it.

 

[Meowzltov]

Correct. Therefore, your statement that, "Something you do all the time is not a ritual" is incorrect.

I added another condition. For it to be a ritual, it must be done deliberately, consciously, purposefully, with care. For example, If you cook dinner a certain way from habit, it is not a ritual. But if you deliberately cook dinner a certain way every time, it is a ritual.

 

[Meowzltov]

There are no behaviors that divide Sacred time from Ordinary time. The division is of YHWH. He has already divided it. All we do is add traditions/rituals that help to emphasize the division that He created.

I considered this before making my remark. It is a good point to bring up.

It was of course God who blessed the seventh day. But it is still ordinary time for us UNLESS we do something to make it sacred. Without ritual, we would just mow the lawn, watch TV, go to work, pay our bills, go shopping, or whatever we would do on any other day. UNLESS we do something to set it apart and MAKE it holy, it is simply an ordinary day FOR US.

 

[Meowzltov]

I have no reason to rewrite language definitions, so I will just agree with the following:

A religious or solemn ceremony consisting of a series of actions performed according to a prescribed order.

This is correct, but remember that it can be just ONE act. For example, I light candles to welcome Shabbat. That is a ritual with just one action.

There are actually a great many things I do to set apart Shabbat and make it holy for me rather than an ordinary day--as you can see, I enjoy a lot of ritual (I believe you get out of it as much as you put into it). But even if the only thing a person does is refrain from going to work, that would still be a ritual of one action.

Here is my Shabbat ritual:
Thursday evening:

• clean house
• do shopping

Friday late afternoon (be home by 1:00 or before) until just before Shabbat, in order:

• begin playing Shabbat music to get in the mood
• begin making challah, and clean up the area from flour dust
• take bath
• make soup and when done put crock pot on low
• begin making dinner, starting with things like salad, or that take the longest time to cook, and can be kept warm
• set the Shabbat Table with special table cloth and best dishes
• remove from view all objects that might tempt me to break Shabbat (i.e. matches, TP, money)
• take out kleenex to replace TP
• unscrew refrigerator light, and turn on or off lights as they will stay during shabbat
• water all the plants
• turn phone off
• put on extra nice clothes
• make sure makeup is put on before candle lighting

FRIDAY NIGHT: SHABBAT BEGINS

• light candles and say blessing at proper time
• once a month, attend synagogue
• say kiddush (blessings before eating)
• enjoy dinner
• sing Shalom Aleichem
• do birkat hamazon (grace after meals)
• rinse dishes but do not wash
• sit on the porch and appreciate the stars
• read (usually something of a religious nature)
• go to bed

SATURDAY: morning until the end of Shabbat

• sleep in as late as I feel like
• don't get out of pajamas
• have a light brunch of soup from the crock pot
• read the Torah portion for the week, pausing to think what it could mean for me
• go online and read various commentaries for it
• read the Haftarah, and meditate upon its meaning
• have free time doing pleasurable activities. could be anything from reading fiction to practicing Hebrew to posting on online religious forums -- but try to keep it in the spirit of Shabbat.
• snack on special foods bought just for Shabbat, like muffins or crackers and hummus
• get dressed and go for a walk, appreciating nature, being sure to pray blessings of gratitude, and stopping at various neighbors' homes to say hello.
• eat leftovers for dinner

CLOSE OF SHABBAT AT TWILIGHT

• do Havdalah ritual
• turn on phone
• read mail
• do dishes
• watch TV!

 

[Meowzltov]

It's hilarious how so many Christians are afraid of "rituals". Yet, I've been to the Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Roman Catholic churches and if the Mass is not a ritual, I don't know what is.

Oh, we have no problem saying ritual is fine. Yeshua did lots of ritual. I don't know what the problem is.

 

[Meowzltov]

I try to keep the Sabbath holy every time it comes. I can't help it if it only comes every seventh day. If it came every day, I would try to keep it holy all the time.

If Shabbat came every day, it would not be holy, it would be ordinary. The whole idea of "holy" is that it is set apart from the ordinary. By definition you cannot have holy all the time, or every thing, or every person, or every place.

 

[visionary]

I considered this before making my remark. It is a good point to bring up.

It was of course God who blessed the seventh day. But it is still ordinary time for us UNLESS we do something to make it sacred. Without ritual, we would just mow the lawn, watch TV, go to work, pay our bills, go shopping, or whatever we would do on any other day. UNLESS we do something to set it apart and MAKE it holy, it is simply an ordinary day FOR US.

Here is the heart of the matter, "ritual" is without God. What ever hand waving, proper steps taken, songs sand, set time movements are made, if God is not with us, it is a ritual. If God is with us, it is real.

 

[Meowzltov]

"ritual" is without God.

That is a man made tradition. It is not in the Bible. The Bible includes many rituals that are from God. Read the Torah: it is rife with rituals that are from God. The NT also has rituals from God: baptism, breaking bread, anointing of the sick, etc. Do you see how anointing the sick is a ritual? Do you see how making a sin offering is a ritual?

 

[gadar perets]

I do not think these are a ritual. It is a rehearsal. It is being played out every Yom Kippur, but one day the reality will occur, it will be really happening and the timing of everything will according to the what is revealed in the Yom Kippur "ritual" as you call it. But to me nothing God has put in place is a ritual. It is not meaningless to Him. It is vitally important that we learn from it.

Then you are choosing to redefine "ritual":

A religious or solemn ceremony consisting of a series of actions performed according to a prescribed order.
​

That fits the actions performed on Yom Kippurim perfectly.

 

[Meowzltov]

Then you are choosing to redefine "ritaul":

Exactly.

 

[gadar perets]

gadar perets
Then you are choosing to redefine "ritaul":

No, I was not choosing to change its spelling!

 

[gadar perets]

It was of course God who blessed the seventh day. But it is still ordinary time for us UNLESS we do something to make it sacred. Without ritual, we would just mow the lawn, watch TV, go to work, pay our bills, go shopping, or whatever we would do on any other day. UNLESS we do something to set it apart and MAKE it holy, it is simply an ordinary day FOR US.

I disagree. It is a holy day for us. We must do things to defile it. We don't make it holy, we keep it holy (Exodus 20:8).

 

[Meowzltov]

I disagree. It is a holy day for us. We must do things to defile it. We don't make it holy, we keep it holy (Exodus 20:8).

That's not true. If we do nothing different, then it's just plain old Saturday for us. It's just a regular Saturday for most of the world. They don't notice anything particularly Sabbath about it. It is not holy for them. It take a conscious effort to do things differently in order to experience a Sabbath. This is why it says to "KEEP it holy."

 

[gadar perets]

That's not true. If we do nothing different, then it's just plain old Saturday for us. It's just a regular Saturday for most of the world. They don't notice anything particularly Sabbath about it. It is not holy for them. It take a conscious effort to do things differently in order to experience a Sabbath. This is why it says to "KEEP it holy."

First, you didn't say "They", but "us", referring to believers. Second, YHWH made the Sabbath holy. All we can do is make it unholy or Keep it holy. Any conscious effort we put into the Sabbath is only to maintain its holiness. We can't make it any holier than it is. We "keep" it in the sense of guarding its holiness.

 

[gadar perets]

This is correct, but remember that it can be just ONE act. For example, I light candles to welcome Shabbat. That is a ritual with just one action.

There are actually a great many things I do to set apart Shabbat and make it holy for me rather than an ordinary day--as you can see, I enjoy a lot of ritual (I believe you get out of it as much as you put into it). But even if the only thing a person does is refrain from going to work, that would still be a ritual of one action.

Here is my Shabbat ritual:
Thursday evening:

• clean house
• do shopping

Friday late afternoon (be home by 1:00 or before) until just before Shabbat, in order:

• begin playing Shabbat music to get in the mood
• begin making challah, and clean up the area from flour dust
• take bath
• make soup and when done put crock pot on low
• begin making dinner, starting with things like salad, or that take the longest time to cook, and can be kept warm
• set the Shabbat Table with special table cloth and best dishes
• remove from view all objects that might tempt me to break Shabbat (i.e. matches, TP, money)
• take out kleenex to replace TP
• unscrew refrigerator light, and turn on or off lights as they will stay during shabbat
• water all the plants
• turn phone off
• put on extra nice clothes
• make sure makeup is put on before candle lighting

FRIDAY NIGHT: SHABBAT BEGINS

• light candles and say blessing at proper time
• once a month, attend synagogue
• say kiddush (blessings before eating)
• enjoy dinner
• sing Shalom Aleichem
• do birkat hamazon (grace after meals)
• rinse dishes but do not wash
• sit on the porch and appreciate the stars
• read (usually something of a religious nature)
• go to bed

SATURDAY: morning until the end of Shabbat

• sleep in as late as I feel like
• don't get out of pajamas
• have a light brunch of soup from the crock pot
• read the Torah portion for the week, pausing to think what it could mean for me
• go online and read various commentaries for it
• read the Haftarah, and meditate upon its meaning
• have free time doing pleasurable activities. could be anything from reading fiction to practicing Hebrew to posting on online religious forums -- but try to keep it in the spirit of Shabbat.
• snack on special foods bought just for Shabbat, like muffins or crackers and hummus
• get dressed and go for a walk, appreciating nature, being sure to pray blessings of gratitude, and stopping at various neighbors' homes to say hello.
• eat leftovers for dinner

CLOSE OF SHABBAT AT TWILIGHT

• do Havdalah ritual
• turn on phone
• read mail
• do dishes
• watch TV!

You are to be commended for your zeal in Sabbath keeping. However, this is a perfect example of how we can ADD rituals to the Sabbath, but the Sabbath itself is NOT a ritual. It is a holy day. YHWH never commanded those rituals and it is not wrong to have those rituals, but the fact remains, the Sabbath is a day, not a ritual.

 

[Meowzltov]

You are to be commended for your zeal in Sabbath keeping. However, this is a perfect example of how we can ADD rituals to the Sabbath, but the Sabbath itself is NOT a ritual. It is a holy day. YHWH never commanded those rituals and it is not wrong to have those rituals, but the fact remains, the Sabbath is a day, not a ritual.

The Sabbath is a day, a blessed day. We keep it holy with our ritual rest.

 

[Meowzltov]

First, you didn't say "They", but "us", referring to believers. Second, YHWH made the Sabbath holy. All we can do is make it unholy or Keep it holy. Any conscious effort we put into the Sabbath is only to maintain its holiness. We can't make it any holier than it is. We "keep" it in the sense of guarding its holiness.

By our inaction, we make it ordinary. It must be kept holy by ritual rest.

 

[gadar perets]

The Sabbath is a day, a blessed day. We keep it holy with our ritual rest.

By our inaction, we make it ordinary. It must be kept holy by ritual rest.

We keep it holy with our rest. YHWH does not call it a "ritual rest" and neither should we.

 

[Meowzltov]

We keep it holy with our rest. YHWH does not call it a "ritual rest" and neither should we.

The LORD doesn't call immersion after a woman's monthly period "ritual immersion," but that's what it is. Ritual is ritual.