Breaking the chains (of sin and darkness)...?

Bible Highlighter · Feb 13, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
What do you believe about the "Grace of God"...?

God Bless!

The Bible says,

Jesus is full of grace and truth (John 1:14).
God's grace is a gift (Ephesians 2:8-9).
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son (John 3:16).
Yet, the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness (Titus 2:11-12).

The Bible also says,

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. (Hebrews 4:16).
Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. (Acts 13:43).
Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled. (Hebrews 12:15).
God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. (James 4:6).
For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. (Jude 1:4 NIV).
How can one deny the Lord? Scripture says,
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. (Titus 1:16).

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" (Hebrews 5:9).

"Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works" (Titus 2:14).

25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."
(Ephesians 5:25-27).

The Bible says grace is a gift, but yet, the Bible also says I have to continue in His grace and that I can fail the grace of God. The Bible also says that the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and that there are certain individuals who turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality. A preacher who says, "all future sin is forgiven" to a believer is given them a license to sin whether they want that to happen or not. Also, wouldn't God have to agree with a believer's sin in order to save them in a sin and still be saved type gospel?

Anyways, in my own words (based on my understanding of Scripture), what do I believe about the grace of God?

Grace means unmerited favor. God's grace is embodied in the person of Jesus Christ. God's grace is also what Jesus did for us with His death, resurrection, and ascension. God's grace is Christ's forgiveness upon our sins. This unmerited favor can be found only in the Son. This unmerited favor was accomplished with Christ's plan of redemption. This unmerited favor is extended to us when Jesus forgives us of our sins. However, before Jesus even went to the cross and obtained redemption (grace) for us, God the Father had already promised life thru His Son based on what He knew His Son would do for us. For Jesus is the Lamb slain since the foundation of the world. Jesus would provide grace officially for us by what He did with His death, resurrection, and ascension (on our behalf). But how does somebody get God's grace (i.e. Jesus and His redemption on our behalf)? A person must first receive God's grace (like a gift). They do this by believing Jesus died on the cross for their sins and that He had risen 3 days later on their behalf. They must ask Jesus to forgive them of their sin with the intention that they will never sin again. If a believer slips up into sin, they do not go out and do a good work to get clean or forgiven. They confess their sin to Jesus in order to be forgiven or cleansed (See 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9).

However, God's grace also teaches us to deny ungodliness. In fact, walking in the light as Christ is in the light cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7). So after a person is saved initially or ultimately by the Lord Jesus and His sacrifice, they will walk righteously according to the Commands within the New Testament. This is not the working of the believer alone. Jesus is the One who works good within the believer's life (Getting them to obey His Word). Jesus saves us both in Justification and in Sanctification. Most believer's today think that we are saved by what Jesus did for us with His death and resurrection alone (and by having a belief in Him alone). But they neglect to let Jesus save them from putting away the works of the devil within their life (i.e. sin) (See 1 John 3:8 and Romans 13:14). The Scriptures says we have to continue in the grace of God and that we can fail the grace of God. Sin and or unbelief (i.e. unbelief in the Scriptures) are the two biggest things that cause a believer to fail the grace of God.

...

Bible Highlighter · Feb 13, 2017

OzSpen said:
Those who promote or allow lying violate Scriptures such as Colossians 3:9 (NIV), 'Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices'.

Believers not lying would also apply to the fact that believers would also not lie to unbelievers, as well.

Ozpen said:
There are exceptions to this when there is a higher moral requirement as Corrie ten Boom demonstrated by hiding the Jews in her house in Holland. See The Hiding Place.

Rahab had appeared to lie so as to save the lives of the Israelites. However, I do not believe this was the breaking of the 9th Commandment. This was the use of deception (Which was a common tactic to use during war time). One example was when God had told the Israelites to deceive their enemies at AI. But can a Christian lie so as to protect the lives of other Christians? I don't know that answer. New Testament Law is different than Old Testament Law; And we are New Testament believers and not Old Testament believers. We are Christians and not Israelites who are a part of a nation set forth by God. I would say that if a Christian was forced to lie to protect other lives, they would want to still confess that sin to God to be on the safe side with the Lord and they will pray that they are not faced with such a challenge again.

Ozpen said:
I haven't met too many Calvinists who live like you have described in their support of OSAS/Perseverance of the Saints.

Oz

You would be surprised of how well people put up a good front. Also, you do not have a hidden camera on their heads or a device that can read their minds 24/7. In addition, remember, it only took 1 sin to cause a separation between man and God by Adam. Why people think things have changed is beyond me. Anyways, the devil convinced Eve that she would not die if she broke God's Command. The same is happening today. The devil is saying, "ye shall not surely die." The first lie by satan in the Garden is still the same lie being pushed by him today.

...

Bigmike424 · Feb 13, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Well, It has nothing to do with insecurity, but it has to do with morality or what is good and right.

Do you think believers will be insulting each other in Heaven?
Or do you think they will be getting along with each other and loving each other?
Jesus said we can be held accountable at the Judgment for even idle words that we speak (Matthew 12:36).

You said, I quote,
"I think you have an abstract version of Eternal Security and a counterfeit salvation. No one is truly saved if they would think the thoughts and have the plans like you indicate."

You said I have an abstract understanding of Eternal Security.
This is an insult.
You said I have a counterfeit salvation.
This is an insult.
You said nobody is truly saved if they would think the thoughts and or have the plans that I indicate.
This is also an insult.

They are insults because I have given you and everyone else Scripture to support what I had said. You have not set out to explain the verses I brought forth, but you just provide criticism with no support in Scripture that what you are saying is true. Please provide Scripture to support your accusations. Otherwise they come off as just baseless insults that seeks to be hurtful and not truthful.

Well, I am not writing a novel, dear sir. I am posting lots of Scripture. There is a difference. I believe you cannot give an answer to these many verses because you honestly do not know what they say. If you did have an idea of what they said, you would have given a reply by now. If you are able to reply to the many verses I have provided (in intelligent manner using the context and or cross references), I will of course apologize.

This is a good start to understanding that sin does in fact separate a believer from God. Anyways, what Scripture verses lead you to this type of thinking that there are people who say they know Jesus but are not saved?

When a believer backslides into sin, do they need to repent so as to be saved again? Or are these believers saved even while they are in a sinful backslidden state?

What about the many stories and parables in the Bible? Do you think they support Eternal Security? If so, then which ones? On the contrary, I would say that a good majority of the stories and parables in the Bible support Conditional Salvation and not Eternal Security. We can talk about them if you like; Or you can continue to insult me.

You have a funny idea about an insult is not.
I am wondering, how would you define an insult?
How does the Dictionary define an insult?

Back to what? What don't you really care about?

You can either be in ignorance or you can look at the many verses here on Sinless Perfectionism. Just click on the spoiler button to check them out.

List of Verses For Sinless Perfectionism (a.k.a. Entire Sanctification) in Scripture:

The 144,000 are found without fault before the throne of God. For John says, “And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.” (Revelation 14:3-5).

Enoch was translated and did not see death because he walked with the LORD and pleased GOD. For the author of Hebrews says, “By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.” (Hebrews 11:5); And Moses had written in the Torah, “And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.” (Genesis 5:24).

Jesus says, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” (Matthew 5:48).

GOD says, “Be ye holy as I am holy” (1 Peter 1:16 cf. Leviticus 11:45).

Jesus said to two people to, "sin no more." (John 5:14) (John 8:11). In fact, Jesus said to the man that Jesus healed that if he were to sin again, a worse thing would come upon him. For Jesus said, “sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.” (John 5:14).

Jesus says, “If you want to be perfect sell your possessions and give them to the poor” (Matthew 19:21).

We are told in Scripture that he [i.e. anyone] that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin. For Peter says, “Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;” (1 Peter 4:1).

Paul says, “And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” (Galatians 5:24).

James says, “If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.” (James 3:2).

Paul says, “There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.” (1 Corinthians 10:13).

David says, “Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.” (Psalms 119:11).

Paul says, “Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him” (Romans 6:6-8).

Paul says, “Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.” (Romans 6:12). John says, “sin not.” (1 John 2:1).

Paul says, “For sin shall not have dominion over you.” (Romans 6:14).

Paul says, “Don't you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living.” (Romans NLT). Jesus says, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. (John 8:34). John says he that sins is of the devil (1 John 1:8).

Paul says, “You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.” (Romans 6:18 NIV).

Paul says, “For when you were slaves of sin, you were free from righteousness.” (Romans 6:20 BLB). Paul also says, “But now that you have been freed from sin and have become God's slaves, the benefit you reap is sanctification, and the result is eternal life.” (Romans 6:22 ISV).

Peter says, “there are false prophets... who cannot cease from sin.” (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:14). This is similar to those who are lovers of pleasure more than they are lovers of GOD (1 Timothy 3:1-9). For he that says he knows him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in Him (1 John 2:4).

Jesus says, “Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” (Matthew 26:41). What is the point of watching and praying so as not to be led into temptation if you are going to inevitably sin again?

Paul says “Be ye angry, and sin not:” (Ephesians 4:26).

John says, “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9-10)

John says,“For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.” (1 John 5:4). John also says, “For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.” (1 John 2:16). For John says, “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” (1 John 2:15).

Paul says, “Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.” (1 Corinthians 15:34).

The author of Hebrews says, “Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen” (Hebrews 13:20-21).

John says, “We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness” (1 John 5:18-19).

Sinless Perfectionism is the goal for a believer’s life. For Paul says, “Not that I have already obtained it [this goal of being Christlike] or have already been made perfect, but I actively press on so that I may take hold of that [perfection] for which Christ Jesus took hold of me and made me His own.” (Philippians 3:12 AMP).

Jesus says, “The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.” (Luke 6:40).

Paul says, “Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.” (Colossians 4:12).

Paul says, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

James says, “But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.” (James 1:4). James also says, ““Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?” (James 2:22).

Jesus says, ““Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.” (Revelation 3:2).

Paul says, “Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Corinthians 7:1).

Paul says, “I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,” (Ephesians 4:1).

Paul says, “For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;” (1 Thessalonians 4:3-4). Paul also says, “For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.” (1 Thessalonians 4:7).

Zacharias says, “That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.” (Luke 1:74-75).

Paul says, “And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;” (Colossians 1:20-23).

Paul says, “And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love for one another and for all men, even as we do for you. To this end may He establish your hearts to be blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.” (1 Thessalonians 3:12-13 MEV).

Paul says,“Men, brothers, I have conducted-myself with all good conscience before God up to this day” (Acts 23:1 DLNT)

Paul says, “This work must continue until we are all joined together in the same faith [or all reach unity in the faith] and in the same knowledge of the Son of God. We must become like a mature person [or the perfect Man; Christ], growing until we become like Christ and have his perfection [ to the measure of the stature of Christ’s fullness ].” (Ephesians 4:13 EXB).

Paul says, “It is he whom we proclaim, admonishing everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone perfect in Christ” (Colossians 1:28 NABRE).

Paul says, “For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.” (2 Corinthians 11:2).

Paul says, “In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ” (Colossians 2:11).

Paul says, “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Thessalonians 5:23).

The author Hebrews says, “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14).

Paul says, “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish” (Ephesians 5:25-27). Jesus says, “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.” (John 17:17-19). For Jesus says, “Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you” (John 15:3).

John says, “For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” (1 John 3:8).

Paul says, “But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

Jesus says, “So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 22:10-13). A Multitude of People in Heaven says, “Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.(Revelation 19:7-8). Note: the fine linen that represents the righteousness of the saints is the same wedding garment that the man at the wedding did not have on.

Paul says, “That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world.” (Philippians 2:15).

John says, “But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.” (1 John 2:5).

I also believe Jesus paid an incredible price for mankind to receive the gift of salvation. However, this incredible price paid was to do what?

Scripture says,

Titus 2:14 says,
"Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."

Ephesians 5:25-27 says,
25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."
And Solomon had numerous wives and concubines, and David committed fornication with Bathsheba and even went on to murder her husband Uriah, and Paul wrote the entire seventh chapter in Romans scolding himself for doing the things he hates and not doing what was right, and Peter denied Jesus, and I suppose they are all in hell? This is what you say. These are Holy men in the scriptures incapable of a sinless and perfect life. Jesus only is capable of that. As far as scriptures to prove what I believe I say open your Bible. There are many. I say you have an abstract version meaning there are a lot of people that do claim salvation and only because they are scared of eternal hell, and to those I cannot help but question their eternal home. Don't abuse or change what I say. Read your Bible. I will no longer reply to your Jehovah witness type of arguing. Whoops! I guess there goes another insult! Grow up.

...

Bigmike424 · Feb 13, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Well, It has nothing to do with insecurity, but it has to do with morality or what is good and right.

Do you think believers will be insulting each other in Heaven?
Or do you think they will be getting along with each other and loving each other?
Jesus said we can be held accountable at the Judgment for even idle words that we speak (Matthew 12:36).

You said, I quote,
"I think you have an abstract version of Eternal Security and a counterfeit salvation. No one is truly saved if they would think the thoughts and have the plans like you indicate."

You said I have an abstract understanding of Eternal Security.
This is an insult.
You said I have a counterfeit salvation.
This is an insult.
You said nobody is truly saved if they would think the thoughts and or have the plans that I indicate.
This is also an insult.

They are insults because I have given you and everyone else Scripture to support what I had said. You have not set out to explain the verses I brought forth, but you just provide criticism with no support in Scripture that what you are saying is true. Please provide Scripture to support your accusations. Otherwise they come off as just baseless insults that seeks to be hurtful and not truthful.

Well, I am not writing a novel, dear sir. I am posting lots of Scripture. There is a difference. I believe you cannot give an answer to these many verses because you honestly do not know what they say. If you did have an idea of what they said, you would have given a reply by now. If you are able to reply to the many verses I have provided (in intelligent manner using the context and or cross references), I will of course apologize.

This is a good start to understanding that sin does in fact separate a believer from God. Anyways, what Scripture verses lead you to this type of thinking that there are people who say they know Jesus but are not saved?

When a believer backslides into sin, do they need to repent so as to be saved again? Or are these believers saved even while they are in a sinful backslidden state?

What about the many stories and parables in the Bible? Do you think they support Eternal Security? If so, then which ones? On the contrary, I would say that a good majority of the stories and parables in the Bible support Conditional Salvation and not Eternal Security. We can talk about them if you like; Or you can continue to insult me.

You have a funny idea about an insult is not.
I am wondering, how would you define an insult?
How does the Dictionary define an insult?

Back to what? What don't you really care about?

You can either be in ignorance or you can look at the many verses here on Sinless Perfectionism. Just click on the spoiler button to check them out.

List of Verses For Sinless Perfectionism (a.k.a. Entire Sanctification) in Scripture:

The 144,000 are found without fault before the throne of God. For John says, “And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.” (Revelation 14:3-5).

Enoch was translated and did not see death because he walked with the LORD and pleased GOD. For the author of Hebrews says, “By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.” (Hebrews 11:5); And Moses had written in the Torah, “And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.” (Genesis 5:24).

Jesus says, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” (Matthew 5:48).

GOD says, “Be ye holy as I am holy” (1 Peter 1:16 cf. Leviticus 11:45).

Jesus said to two people to, "sin no more." (John 5:14) (John 8:11). In fact, Jesus said to the man that Jesus healed that if he were to sin again, a worse thing would come upon him. For Jesus said, “sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.” (John 5:14).

Jesus says, “If you want to be perfect sell your possessions and give them to the poor” (Matthew 19:21).

We are told in Scripture that he [i.e. anyone] that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin. For Peter says, “Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;” (1 Peter 4:1).

Paul says, “And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” (Galatians 5:24).

James says, “If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.” (James 3:2).

Paul says, “There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.” (1 Corinthians 10:13).

David says, “Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.” (Psalms 119:11).

Paul says, “Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him” (Romans 6:6-8).

Paul says, “Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.” (Romans 6:12). John says, “sin not.” (1 John 2:1).

Paul says, “For sin shall not have dominion over you.” (Romans 6:14).

Paul says, “Don't you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living.” (Romans NLT). Jesus says, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. (John 8:34). John says he that sins is of the devil (1 John 1:8).

Paul says, “You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.” (Romans 6:18 NIV).

Paul says, “For when you were slaves of sin, you were free from righteousness.” (Romans 6:20 BLB). Paul also says, “But now that you have been freed from sin and have become God's slaves, the benefit you reap is sanctification, and the result is eternal life.” (Romans 6:22 ISV).

Peter says, “there are false prophets... who cannot cease from sin.” (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:14). This is similar to those who are lovers of pleasure more than they are lovers of GOD (1 Timothy 3:1-9). For he that says he knows him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in Him (1 John 2:4).

Jesus says, “Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” (Matthew 26:41). What is the point of watching and praying so as not to be led into temptation if you are going to inevitably sin again?

Paul says “Be ye angry, and sin not:” (Ephesians 4:26).

John says, “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9-10)

John says,“For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.” (1 John 5:4). John also says, “For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.” (1 John 2:16). For John says, “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” (1 John 2:15).

Paul says, “Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.” (1 Corinthians 15:34).

The author of Hebrews says, “Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen” (Hebrews 13:20-21).

John says, “We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness” (1 John 5:18-19).

Sinless Perfectionism is the goal for a believer’s life. For Paul says, “Not that I have already obtained it [this goal of being Christlike] or have already been made perfect, but I actively press on so that I may take hold of that [perfection] for which Christ Jesus took hold of me and made me His own.” (Philippians 3:12 AMP).

Jesus says, “The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.” (Luke 6:40).

Paul says, “Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.” (Colossians 4:12).

Paul says, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

James says, “But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.” (James 1:4). James also says, ““Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?” (James 2:22).

Jesus says, ““Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.” (Revelation 3:2).

Paul says, “Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Corinthians 7:1).

Paul says, “I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,” (Ephesians 4:1).

Paul says, “For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;” (1 Thessalonians 4:3-4). Paul also says, “For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.” (1 Thessalonians 4:7).

Zacharias says, “That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.” (Luke 1:74-75).

Paul says, “And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;” (Colossians 1:20-23).

Paul says, “And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love for one another and for all men, even as we do for you. To this end may He establish your hearts to be blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.” (1 Thessalonians 3:12-13 MEV).

Paul says,“Men, brothers, I have conducted-myself with all good conscience before God up to this day” (Acts 23:1 DLNT)

Paul says, “This work must continue until we are all joined together in the same faith [or all reach unity in the faith] and in the same knowledge of the Son of God. We must become like a mature person [or the perfect Man; Christ], growing until we become like Christ and have his perfection [ to the measure of the stature of Christ’s fullness ].” (Ephesians 4:13 EXB).

Paul says, “It is he whom we proclaim, admonishing everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone perfect in Christ” (Colossians 1:28 NABRE).

Paul says, “For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.” (2 Corinthians 11:2).

Paul says, “In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ” (Colossians 2:11).

Paul says, “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Thessalonians 5:23).

The author Hebrews says, “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14).

Paul says, “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish” (Ephesians 5:25-27). Jesus says, “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.” (John 17:17-19). For Jesus says, “Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you” (John 15:3).

John says, “For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” (1 John 3:8).

Paul says, “But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

Jesus says, “So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 22:10-13). A Multitude of People in Heaven says, “Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.(Revelation 19:7-8). Note: the fine linen that represents the righteousness of the saints is the same wedding garment that the man at the wedding did not have on.

Paul says, “That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world.” (Philippians 2:15).

John says, “But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.” (1 John 2:5).

I also believe Jesus paid an incredible price for mankind to receive the gift of salvation. However, this incredible price paid was to do what?

Scripture says,

Titus 2:14 says,
"Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."

Ephesians 5:25-27 says,
25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

...

So you believe that it is possible to defy GOD's curse on this flesh, the Adamic curse when our eyes were opened and the sin curse was upon all mankind, and live a perfect and sinless life? Anyone ever tell you the same type of pride is why Satan fell? Anyone ever tell you about some of the big names in the Bible and the sin they committed? David, the fornicator and murderer, Solomon, the fornicator and adulterer with many wives and concubines, Peter, the one that committed the abhorrable sin and denied Jesus, Moses, whom got drunk immediately when he left the ark, I suppose these evil men that were capable of sinning went to hell? This is what you say. And you twist the meaning of eternal security. If eternal security is wrong then why would GOD chasten an unsaved soul? The Bible says whom the Father loveth He chastens. Why would he just whip a Christian? Why do we as parents discipline our children? When our children disobey are they no longer our children? This is what you say. GOD our Father is an example of what we need to be as parents. He DOES NOT cast us away when we make mistakes. And WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES, EVEN YOU!!!!! I said you had an abstract version because there are lots of people that claim Jesus and do the things that show the world and not the Son of our Living GOD. That's what I say you are comparing with. The type I work with. Those that see me ask a blessing over my food then claim to be a Christian in private conversation with me and show no fruits of the Spirit when doing their jobs. Jesus warns if we are ashamed of Him before men then He will be ashamed of us before GOD and if we do not pick up our cross and follow Him then we are not worthy of Him. And I purposely do not quote book, chapter and verse because I know it annoys you. If you study the Bible as you claim you should know exactly where it is, just as I do yours. Be rooted in what you believe but DO NOT criticize me one more time for what I believe.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 13, 2017

Bigmike424 said:
So you believe that it is possible to defy GOD's curse on this flesh, the Adamic curse when our eyes were opened and the sin curse was upon all mankind, and live a perfect and sinless life? Anyone ever tell you the same type of pride is why Satan fell? Anyone ever tell you about some of the big names in the Bible and the sin they committed? David, the fornicator and murderer, Solomon, the fornicator and adulterer with many wives and concubines, Peter, the one that committed the abhorrable sin and denied Jesus, Moses, whom got drunk immediately when he left the ark, I suppose these evil men that were capable of sinning went to hell? This is what you say. And you twist the meaning of eternal security. If eternal security is wrong then why would GOD chasten an unsaved soul? The Bible says whom the Father loveth He chastens. Why would he just whip a Christian? Why do we as parents discipline our children? When our children disobey are they no longer our children? This is what you say. GOD our Father is an example of what we need to be as parents. He DOES NOT cast us away when we make mistakes. And WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES, EVEN YOU!!!!! I said you had an abstract version because there are lots of people that claim Jesus and do the things that show the world and not the Son of our Living GOD. That's what I say you are comparing with. The type I work with. Those that see me ask a blessing over my food then claim to be a Christian in private conversation with me and show no fruits of the Spirit when doing their jobs. Jesus warns if we are ashamed of Him before men then He will be ashamed of us before GOD and if we do not pick up our cross and follow Him then we are not worthy of Him. And I purposely do not quote book, chapter and verse because I know it annoys you. If you study the Bible as you claim you should know exactly where it is, just as I do yours. Be rooted in what you believe but DO NOT criticize me one more time for what I believe.

The 144,000 were found without fault before the throne of God
(Revelation 14:3-5).

Enoch had this testimony that he pleased God (Hebrews 11:5).
Enoch walked with God.
Obviously Enoch walked in a way that was pleasing to God whereby God translated him so that he would not see death (Genesis 5:24).

These are just two examples.
I will let you examine them for yourself in Scripture with prayer.
If not, go ahead and keep seeing whatever you want to see.

...

Bigmike424 · Feb 13, 2017

Jason0047 said:
The 144,000 were found without fault before the throne of God
(Revelation 14:3-5).

Enoch had this testimony that he pleased God (Hebrews 11:5).
Enoch walked with God.
Obviously Enoch walked in a way that was pleasing to God whereby God translated him so that he would not see death (Genesis 5:24).

These are just two examples.
I will let you examine them for yourself in Scripture with prayer.
If not, go ahead and keep seeing whatever you want to see.

...

So you think we stand in front of the throne of GOD in our flesh? Examine that and keep seeing what you think you see.

Neogaia777 · Feb 13, 2017

Jason0047 said:
The Bible says,

Jesus is full of grace and truth (John 1:14).
God's grace is a gift (Ephesians 2:8-9).
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son (John 3:16).
Yet, the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness (Titus 2:11-12).

The Bible also says,

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. (Hebrews 4:16).
Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. (Acts 13:43).
Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled. (Hebrews 12:15).
God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. (James 4:6).
For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. (Jude 1:4 NIV).
How can one deny the Lord? Scripture says,
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. (Titus 1:16).

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" (Hebrews 5:9).

"Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works" (Titus 2:14).

25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."
(Ephesians 5:25-27).

The Bible says grace is a gift, but yet, the Bible also says I have to continue in His grace and that I can fail the grace of God. The Bible also says that the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and that there are certain individuals who turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality. A preacher who says, "all future sin is forgiven" to a believer is given them a license to sin whether they want that to happen or not. Also, wouldn't God have to agree with a believer's sin in order to save them in a sin and still be saved type gospel?

Anyways, in my own words (based on my understanding of Scripture), what do I believe about the grace of God?

Grace means unmerited favor. God's grace is embodied in the person of Jesus Christ. God's grace is also what Jesus did for us with His death, resurrection, and ascension. God's grace is Christ's forgiveness upon our sins. This unmerited favor can be found only in the Son. This unmerited favor was accomplished with Christ's plan of redemption. This unmerited favor is extended to us when Jesus forgives us of our sins. However, before Jesus even went to the cross and obtained redemption (grace) for us, God the Father had already promised life thru His Son based on what He knew His Son would do for us. For Jesus is the Lamb slain since the foundation of the world. Jesus would provide grace officially for us by what He did with His death, resurrection, and ascension (on our behalf). But how does somebody get God's grace (i.e. Jesus and His redemption on our behalf)? A person must first receive God's grace (like a gift). They do this by believing Jesus died on the cross for their sins and that He had risen 3 days later on their behalf. They must ask Jesus to forgive them of their sin with the intention that they will never sin again. If a believer slips up into sin, they do not go out and do a good work to get clean or forgiven. They confess their sin to Jesus in order to be forgiven or cleansed (See 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9).

However, God's grace also teaches us to deny ungodliness. In fact, walking in the light as Christ is in the light cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7). So after a person is saved initially or ultimately by the Lord Jesus and His sacrifice, they will walk righteously according to the Commands within the New Testament. This is not the working of the believer alone. Jesus is the One who works good within the believer's life (Getting them to obey His Word). Jesus saves us both in Justification and in Sanctification. Most believer's today think that we are saved by what Jesus did for us with His death and resurrection alone (and by having a belief in Him alone). But they neglect to let Jesus save them from putting away the works of the devil within their life (i.e. sin) (See 1 John 3:8 and Romans 13:14). The Scriptures says we have to continue in the grace of God and that we can fail the grace of God. Sin and or unbelief (i.e. unbelief in the Scriptures) are the two biggest things that cause a believer to fail the grace of God.

...

I believe in Jude 1:4 that we should not pervert the Grace of God into a license for immorality, and of course, they have to believe...

But, I hear you a lot talking obedience and following the commandments and being sinless and having good works and how important these are to salvation, and I'm not saying that's not important, but How do you reconcile Law and sinlessness and all that with Grace...?

I think where a person is, or are in that, is and can only be between them and God alone, and we are all different and at different stages and are different in "capabilities" and only God really knows where a person is or "should be" in that process, cause it is a process after all, it does not happen overnight with most, but there are stages and steps...

God Bless!

St_Worm2 · Feb 13, 2017

Jason0047 said:
The 144,000 were found without fault before the throne of God
(Revelation 14:3-5)

If the 144,000 will truly be "without fault" Jason, why are they called the "redeemed"? Why would they need to be "redeemed" if such an amazing thing will be true of them?

Thanks!

--David

Bible Highlighter · Feb 14, 2017

Bigmike424 said:
So you think we stand in front of the throne of GOD in our flesh? Examine that and keep seeing what you think you see.

Well, I already did the study. Acts 17:31 is just one clue. So yes. I do believe the bodily resurrection will happen shortly before the Judgment. Here is a chronology of the events.

The Final Resurrections, the Earth Passes Away, and the Judgment:

Prologue:

The Devil is Cast into the Lake of Fire:

• Revelation 20:10 DARBY

"And the devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] both the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for the ages of ages."

The Final Resurrections:
(2nd or Last Phase of the Resurrection of the Saints and the Resurrection of the Wicked):

• John 5:29 GNV

"And they shall come forth, that have done good unto the resurrection of life: but they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of condemnation.."

• Acts 24:15 DRA

"Having hope in God, which these also themselves look for, that there shall be a resurrection of the just and unjust."

• Daniel 12:2

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

Revelation 20:13 a

"And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, ..."

The Heavens and the Earth Pass Away:

• Revelation 20:11

"...the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them."

One Judgment (in Two Parts):
(The Judgment of God's People and the Judgment of the Wicked):

• Hebrews 9:27

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment."

A. The Dead Stand Before The Throne, The Books Are Opened, and Jesus Comes Before the Father:

• Daniel 7:9-10

"I beheld ... the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

• Revelation 20:12 a

"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life.

• Daniel 7:13

"I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him."

B. Every Tongue Will Confess That Jesus is Lord:

• Philippians 2:9-11

"Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

C. All of Mankind is Judged by Jesus and by the Books That Have Recorded Their Works.

• John 5:22 KJ2

"For the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment unto the Son:"

• Acts 17:31

"Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead."

• Revelation 20:12 b

"And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done."

(1) The Judgment Part 1.

(The Weeds Are Removed From the Wheat)
(And God's People Are Judged)

(a) The Weeds Are Removed From the Wheat By Christ's Angels:

• Matthew 13:30

“...and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.”

• Matthew 25:33

“And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.”

• Matthew 13:41

“...The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

(b) God's People Are Judged:

• 1 Peter 4:17 a

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God..."

• Hebrews 10:30

"For... The Lord shall judge his people."

• 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 ESV

"According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw — each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire."

• Matthew 25:22-23

“He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord."

• James 1:12

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him."

(2) The Judgment Part 2.

(The Wicked Are Judged)

Judgment of the Wicked As A Whole:

• 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8

"...the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"

• Revelation 21:8

"...the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

• Galatians 5:19-21

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

• Revelation 20:14 CEV, Revelation 20:15

...death and its kingdom were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Judgment of the Unprofitable Servants or the Weeds:

• Matthew 25:24-28 ESV, Matthew 25:30 KJ2

"He ... who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.’ But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. And cast the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

• Matthew 7:22-23, Matthew 7:26, Matthew 7:19 NLT

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, ...

So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire."

• Matthew 13:40, Matthew 13:42

"As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. ... And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

• Luke 13:27 MEV, Luke 13:28

"But He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know you, or where you come from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out."

• Matthew 25:41-46

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment..."

Warnings Concerning the Lord's Judgment:
(For He Will Repay Us According to What We Have Done)

• 2 Corinthians 5:10

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

• Ecclesiastes 12:14

"For God shall bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil."

• Romans 2:6 GNT

"For God will reward each of us according to what we have done."

• Romans 14:10-12

"...for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God."

• Matthew 16:27

"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works."

• Jeremiah 17:10 a, Jeremiah 17:10 b ESV

"I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”

• Revelation 22:12

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."

• 1 Corinthians 3:16-17

"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."

• Hebrews 10:26

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins."

• Galatians 6:7

"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

...

Bible Highlighter · Feb 14, 2017

St_Worm2 said:
If the 144,000 will truly be "without fault" Jason, why are they called the "redeemed"? Why would they need to be "redeemed" if such an amazing thing will be true of them?

Thanks!

--David

Yes, I am not denying that all saints are redeemed initially and ultimately by Jesus Christ. As I said before, I believe a saint is initially and ultimately saved by having faith in Jesus Christ and by trusting in His death and resurrection to save them. They are saved by asking to forgive them of their sins. A person can have an assurance of salvation right here and right now by repenting of their sins and believing in Jesus Christ if there is sin in their life (Whether they are a believer or an unbeliever). God is not a respecter of persons. But from that point, Jesus will live in a person and do the good work thru their life which results in a life of holiness. If a believer refuses the Sanctification process of God or Christ working in their life, then they are choosing to rebel against God later and there will be dire consequences for their soul at the Judgment for them when they face God at the Judgment.

Anyways, we can see that holiness is ALSO mentioned as a part of the 144,000 lives as a part of being redeemed and being found without fault before the throne of God. So there is NO mental acknowledgement that Jesus is one's Savior with no visible change in one's life happening here.

For the 144,000,

1. Were not defiled with women; for they are virgins (Revelation 14:4).
2. Follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth (Revelation 14:4).
3.. In their mouth was found no guile (Revelation 14:5).

...

Bigmike424 · Feb 14, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Well, I already did the study. Acts 17:31 is just one clue. So yes. I do believe the bodily resurrection will happen shortly before the Judgment. Here is a chronology of the events.

The Final Resurrections, the Earth Passes Away, and the Judgment:

Prologue:

The Devil is Cast into the Lake of Fire:

• Revelation 20:10 DARBY

"And the devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] both the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for the ages of ages."

The Final Resurrections:
(2nd or Last Phase of the Resurrection of the Saints and the Resurrection of the Wicked):

• John 5:29 GNV

"And they shall come forth, that have done good unto the resurrection of life: but they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of condemnation.."

• Acts 24:15 DRA

"Having hope in God, which these also themselves look for, that there shall be a resurrection of the just and unjust."

• Daniel 12:2

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

Revelation 20:13 a

"And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, ..."

The Heavens and the Earth Pass Away:

• Revelation 20:11

"...the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them."

One Judgment (in Two Parts):
(The Judgment of God's People and the Judgment of the Wicked):

• Hebrews 9:27

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment."

A. The Dead Stand Before The Throne, The Books Are Opened, and Jesus Comes Before the Father:

• Daniel 7:9-10

"I beheld ... the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

• Revelation 20:12 a

"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life.

• Daniel 7:13

"I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him."

B. Every Tongue Will Confess That Jesus is Lord:

• Philippians 2:9-11

"Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

C. All of Mankind is Judged by Jesus and by the Books That Have Recorded Their Works.

• John 5:22 KJ2

"For the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment unto the Son:"

• Acts 17:31

"Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead."

• Revelation 20:12 b

"And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done."

(1) The Judgment Part 1.

(The Weeds Are Removed From the Wheat)
(And God's People Are Judged)

(a) The Weeds Are Removed From the Wheat By Christ's Angels:

• Matthew 13:30

“...and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.”

• Matthew 25:33

“And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.”

• Matthew 13:41

“...The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

(b) God's People Are Judged:

• 1 Peter 4:17 a

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God..."

• Hebrews 10:30

"For... The Lord shall judge his people."

• 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 ESV

"According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw — each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire."

• Matthew 25:22-23

“He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord."

• James 1:12

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him."

(2) The Judgment Part 2.

(The Wicked Are Judged)

Judgment of the Wicked As A Whole:

• 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8

"...the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"

• Revelation 21:8

"...the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

• Galatians 5:19-21

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

• Revelation 20:14 CEV, Revelation 20:15

...death and its kingdom were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Judgment of the Unprofitable Servants or the Weeds:

• Matthew 25:24-28 ESV, Matthew 25:30 KJ2

"He ... who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.’ But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. And cast the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

• Matthew 7:22-23, Matthew 7:26, Matthew 7:19 NLT

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, ...

So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire."

• Matthew 13:40, Matthew 13:42

"As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. ... And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

• Luke 13:27 MEV, Luke 13:28

"But He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know you, or where you come from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out."

• Matthew 25:41-46

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment..."

Warnings Concerning the Lord's Judgment:
(For He Will Repay Us According to What We Have Done)

• 2 Corinthians 5:10

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

• Ecclesiastes 12:14

"For God shall bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil."

• Romans 2:6 GNT

"For God will reward each of us according to what we have done."

• Romans 14:10-12

"...for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God."

• Matthew 16:27

"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works."

• Jeremiah 17:10 a, Jeremiah 17:10 b ESV

"I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”

• Revelation 22:12

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."

• 1 Corinthians 3:16-17

"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."

• Hebrews 10:26

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins."

• Galatians 6:7

"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

...

You know this just shows an arrogance and a dodging of my assumption. No flesh will be seen in Heaven. The end. Enoch and Elijah were both called to Heaven and will be slain in the streets of Jerusalem to be witnessed for three and a half days. If you think a body can stay in the grave for years and not decay then that'll be your little secret. You need to learn that the Bible is a spiritual book and our bodies are soul, spirit and body. Differentiate between the three. Learn to study. Don't just post scripture that makes you feel empowered. And stop trying to argue with me. And let me guess, now comes the alleged insult that I offended you with. Again, grow up. Reply to the others that call you out on your theories.

Bigmike424 · Feb 14, 2017

Bigmike424 said:
You know this just shows an arrogance and a dodging of my assumption. No flesh will be seen in Heaven. The end. Enoch and Elijah were both called to Heaven and will be slain in the streets of Jerusalem to be witnessed for three and a half days. If you think a body can stay in the grave for years and not decay then that'll be your little secret. You need to learn that the Bible is a spiritual book and our bodies are soul, spirit and body. Differentiate between the three. Learn to study. Don't just post scripture that makes you feel empowered. And stop trying to argue with me. And let me guess, now comes the alleged insult that I offended you with. Again, grow up. Reply to the others that call you out on your theories.

And you do know the Bible promises us a new body in Heaven. Why would the sin cursed flesh be there. But I guess you're the mental giant that is totally enlightened and the only one that truly knows GOD's wisdom. Actually, the way you believe you're totally sinless and perfect, why don't we just pray to GOD in your name? If you can attain perfection as Jesus did then you are at His level. Why don't we do that? Because you're a sin filled mortal man in a fleshly body that will too be consumed prior to your soul entering eternity. Worthy of nothing more in this flesh than GOD himself breaking your back and casting you into the lake of fire. That's what we all deserve in this flesh. But my GOD, in His amazing grace and unbelievable love for all of us, sacrificed His own Son in His and ONLY His sinless perfection that through Him we can have eternal life. No, we cannot live a sinless life. It is impossible. We can make decisions to surrender our members to the service, honor and glory of GOD but we all fall short in some way EVERY DAY. Read the Romans Road. Read many scriptures in the New Testament. Read anywhere that talks about GOD's grace. But you don't need it. You're without sin. Muhahahaha!!!

Bible Highlighter · Feb 14, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
I believe in Jude 1:4 that we should not pervert the Grace of God into a license for immorality, and of course, they have to believe...

But, I hear you a lot talking obedience and following the commandments and being sinless and having good works and how important these are to salvation, and I'm not saying that's not important, but How do you reconcile Law and sinlessness and all that with Grace...?

I think where a person is, or are in that, is and can only be between them and God alone, and we are all different and at different stages and are different in "capabilities" and only God really knows where a person is or "should be" in that process, cause it is a process after all, it does not happen overnight with most, but there are stages and steps...

God Bless!

One part of the Bible appears to say that we are saved without doing anything. The other part of the Bible paints a different picture saying that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God, etc.. How do we reconcile the many passages of Paul with what James says? How do we reconcile faith and works (or a life of holiness)? How do we reconcile Ephesians 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5 with James 2:17, James 2:24, 1 John 3:10, and Titus 1:16, etc.?

The answer is actually really simple. The answer is Jesus Christ.

Jesus saves us by His work that He did with His death, resurrection, and ascension (i.e. Justification - Our belief in Jesus and His work He did for us and by our asking Him to forgive us of our sin).

Jesus also saves us by His work that He does within our life, too (i.e. Jesus saves us in Sanctification, as well). For Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:8). This would be the works of the devil within your life (i.e. sin). For there is nothing that can tranform or changes lives more than Jesus Christ; That is one of the reasons why God's people preach the good news of Jesus Christ so as to be saved by Him. For Jesus has fixed up broken homes (or familes). Jesus has drawn the alcoholic away from the bottle. Jesus has helped the gambler to put down his cards and walk away from the game. Jesus has helped the drug addict from the power of the needle. Jesus has helped the harlot from being a slave to sexual sin and money. For Jesus Christ changes lives. Jesus changed my life and He continues to change lives today (Making them new creations in His image).

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
(2 Corinthians 5:17).

Here are three heavy hitter verses that I am hoping will hit a home run with you on this point.

"But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." (Romans 13:14).

"Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works." (Titus 2:14).

25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Ephesians 5:25-27).

Did you catch what it said in Ephesians 5?
It says Christ gave Himself for the church (i.e. the saints) that He might sanctify and cleanse them by the washing of the water of the Word (i.e. God's Word or Scripture) that He might present to Himself a type of church that is without spot, wrinkle, and who is holy and without blemish. How do we get cleansed by the Word? By obeying the commands within it. Jesus says, "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you" (John 15:3). And Jesus had said elsewhere, "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed." (John 8:31). For Jesus says, "He that is of God heareth God's words" (John 8:47). On the flipside, Jesus says this can be our reality,
26 "And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."
(Matthew 7:26-27).

Or the following can be our reality...

"Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God." (Philippians 1:11).

I hope this helps.
And may God bless you.

...

Bible Highlighter · Feb 14, 2017

Bigmike424 said:
You know this just shows an arrogance and a dodging of my assumption. No flesh will be seen in Heaven. The end. Enoch and Elijah were both called to Heaven and will be slain in the streets of Jerusalem to be witnessed for three and a half days. If you think a body can stay in the grave for years and not decay then that'll be your little secret. You need to learn that the Bible is a spiritual book and our bodies are soul, spirit and body. Differentiate between the three. Learn to study. Don't just post scripture that makes you feel empowered. And stop trying to argue with me. And let me guess, now comes the alleged insult that I offended you with. Again, grow up. Reply to the others that call you out on your theories.

The Judgment is not in Heaven. I believe the Judgment takes place on the "New Earth" (after the city of New Jerusalem comes down from out of Heaven). For Jesus says, "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out." (Luke 13:28). In other words, Jesus was telling certain people that they will be thrust out of God's Kingdom at the Judgment while they see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the Kingdom of God.

Anyways, there is one Judgment at one location in two parts (or two stages) and it takes place after the Millennium (1,000 year reign of Christ) and the Final Bodily Resurrections. After the Judgment, the saints will live on this New Earth while all things that are evil will have been destroyed or erased from existence. Only God's goodness will remain in the universe and His saints will live with Him for all eternity in righteousness or goodness.

...

Bible Highlighter · Feb 14, 2017

Bigmike424 said:
And you do know the Bible promises us a new body in Heaven. Why would the sin cursed flesh be there. But I guess you're the mental giant that is totally enlightened and the only one that truly knows GOD's wisdom. Actually, the way you believe you're totally sinless and perfect, why don't we just pray to GOD in your name? If you can attain perfection as Jesus did then you are at His level. Why don't we do that? Because you're a sin filled mortal man in a fleshly body that will too be consumed prior to your soul entering eternity. Worthy of nothing more in this flesh than GOD himself breaking your back and casting you into the lake of fire. That's what we all deserve in this flesh. But my GOD, in His amazing grace and unbelievable love for all of us, sacrificed His own Son in His and ONLY His sinless perfection that through Him we can have eternal life. No, we cannot live a sinless life. It is impossible. We can make decisions to surrender our members to the service, honor and glory of GOD but we all fall short in some way EVERY DAY. Read the Romans Road. Read many scriptures in the New Testament. Read anywhere that talks about GOD's grace. But you don't need it. You're without sin. Muhahahaha!!!

The body that believers will have in Heaven will be like the body of angels. It's why we are called the sons of God in John chapter 1. When the Pre-Trib Rapture takes place, the saints will have the body like that of angels. These bodies are spiritual bodies. For Paul says there is a natural body and there is a spiritual body. Believers will not live in Heaven forever. New Jerusalem will come down from out of Heaven and land on the New Earth after the Judgment.

As for Sinless Perfectionism:
Again, anyone read the verses for themselves at the following link or they can believer whatever they want to believe.

A Biblical Defense of Sinless Perfectionism.

As for your laugh that says, "Muhahahaha!!!!":
This is something that a villian does within movies or television and it is not the type of behavior that is becoming of the saints. Believers do not relish or laugh at the lack of understanding of God's Word by other believers. It is not appropriate or respectful.

...

FireDragon76 · Feb 14, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
Yes, therein lies the danger, oftentimes trading rather obvious sins, for much more subtle, much less obvious ones, like the Pharisees, that oftentimes has to be pointed out by someone very directly before we can see it...

Absolutely.

It's like whack-a-mole. In the end, the moles win, just a matter of physics.

But, sin is costing us all so very much... It will destroy us all if we can't find a way to do something about it collectively...

Jesus Christ has defeated sin. Our job is just to love God and love our neighbor.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 14, 2017

FireDragon76 said:
.
Jesus Christ has defeated sin. Our job is just to love God and love our neighbor.

That line of thinking does not work of what is taught within the following verses. For if Jesus defeated sin at the cross, then there is no need for Him to defeat sin within our lives according to these three verses.

Romans 13:14
Titus 2:14
Ephesians 5:25-27.

...

FireDragon76 · Feb 14, 2017

Jason0047 said:
That line of thinking does not work of what is taught within the following verses. For if Jesus defeated sin at the cross, then there is no need for Him to defeat sin within our lives according to these three verses.

Don't confuse the objective work of Christ with the subjective experience of that salvation.

Bigmike424 · Feb 14, 2017

Jason0047 said:
The body that believers will have in Heaven will be like the body of angels. It's why we are called the sons of God in John chapter 1. When the Pre-Trib Rapture takes place, the saints will have the body like that of angels. These bodies are spiritual bodies. For Paul says there is a natural body and there is a spiritual body. Believers will not live in Heaven forever. New Jerusalem will come down from out of Heaven and land on the New Earth after the Judgment.

As for Sinless Perfectionism:
Again, anyone read the verses for themselves at the following link or they can believer whatever they want to believe.

A Biblical Defense of Sinless Perfectionism.

As for your laugh that says, "Muhahahaha!!!!":
This is something that a villian does within movies or television and it is not the type of behavior that is becoming of the saints. Believers do not relish or laugh at the lack of understanding of God's Word by other believers. It is not appropriate or respectful.

...

Neither is rude and arrogant opinions. Stop replying to me and I will stop replying to you.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 14, 2017

Bigmike424 said:
Neither is rude and arrogant opinions. Stop replying to me and I will stop replying to you.

May God's love shine upon you.

...

Breaking the chains (of sin and darkness)...?

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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