Bound4Life

[Pwnerer]

And you support the death penalty? The same death penalty that executes innocent people? The same death penalty that has seen over 100 exonerations in the past few years?

Logical consistency is not something you seem to excel at...

Well, I don't use Excel, I use Open Office. But in the end the numbers add up. For example I could do a comparison statement (pseudocoded) that say IF("capital punishment" == "the death penalty"), which would always turn out false. Capital punishment does not refer to what you are talking about, which is a specific implementation of capital punishment. So it seems reading is not something you Excel at, so you might want to try using Word, to compensate for your inability.

So that people would have context, I posted both Izzy's post and your previous post. And, you are wrong on two counts. First, you did create a straw man. You tried claiming that pro-choice individuals don't believe fetuses are human because they cannot reason (which may be true in some cases but typically a rather small percentage). And then you use that straw man in an attempt to claim that pro-choice individuals would have no problem with the murder of infants, which is untrue even if it is easy for you to knock down (hence the term straw man).

The majority of pro-choice-ers I have met do claim that fetuses are not human because they cannot reason.

Now, Izzy did not post a straw man, Izzy asked your opinion. And the question about the ectopic pregnancy was not the only question, he also asked you about cases of rape and only the rich having access to abortions. He wasn't trying to put words in your mouth or make a simplistic claim about what you believe so that he could knock it down , it does not equal a straw man.

Rhetorical questions constitute a statement. Thus, he made a straw man.

The issue of how much say father's should have in whether or not a woman has an abortion is a hard one. In some ways, I would expect you to argue the other side, the men should be held responsible since it can act as a brake on mens sexual activities. There is a study indicating adolescent males who perceive a high likelihood of being required to pay child support or who have a relative who pays child support are less likely than others to have multiple female partners and more likely to use contraceptives (Huang C and Han W, Perceptions of child support and sexual activity of adolescent males, Journal of Adolescence, 2004, 27(6):731-748.) IOW, education and enforcement of child support laws appears to be successful in deterring teenage pregnancies and children being born out of wedlock. Sounds like something I would think you would support.

Well I say, much better and thoughtful than some have been saying.

 

[Ramona]

Edit: no longer applicable.

 

[IzzyPop]

Well, I don't use Excel, I use Open Office. But in the end the numbers add up. For example I could do a comparison statement (pseudocoded) that say IF("capital punishment" == "the death penalty"), which would always turn out false. Capital punishment does not refer to what you are talking about, which is a specific implementation of capital punishment. So it seems reading is not something you Excel at, so you might want to try using Word, to compensate for your inability.

Mocking my typo is a pretty convenient way to ignore the question.

You continue to dazzle with your debating skillz.[/sarcasm]

The majority of pro-choice-ers I have met do claim that fetuses are not human because they cannot reason.
Rhetorical questions constitute a statement. Thus, he made a straw man.
Well I say, much better and thoughtful than some have been saying.

I was not asking rhetorical questions. They were honest questions that concern situations that do arise that I felt did not fit into your 'convenience' argument.

 

[Pwnerer]

Mocking my typo is a pretty convenient way to ignore the question.

You continue to dazzle with your debating skillz.[/sarcasm]

I don't think you had a typo; I was making a pun.

I was not asking rhetorical questions. They were honest questions that concern situations that do arise that I felt did not fit into your 'convenience' argument.

My mistake. I thought you were being rhetorical.

 

[SimplyMe]

Well, I don't use Excel, I use Open Office. But in the end the numbers add up. For example I could do a comparison statement (pseudocoded) that say IF("capital punishment" == "the death penalty"), which would always turn out false. Capital punishment does not refer to what you are talking about, which is a specific implementation of capital punishment. So it seems reading is not something you Excel at, so you might want to try using Word, to compensate for your inability.


The majority of pro-choice-ers I have met do claim that fetuses are not human because they cannot reason.
Rhetorical questions constitute a statement. Thus, he made a straw man.
Well I say, much better and thoughtful than some have been saying.

Except, even if they were rhetorical (and you seem to be the only one who thinks they were), to make the straw man charge you are still only looking only at the first question and ignoring the other two. So, in essence, you now seem to be making a straw man by only using the one question that is not morally abortion (though medically it is, ectoptic pregnancies are ended with an abortion and it is human DNA and tissue being aborted) while ignoring the other two questions that are morally considered abortion (ending of a fetus' life).

 

[Ramona]

Here's a fun exercise for pro-lifers:
Go down to your local clinic and find the nearest rape victim, then force her into a fatsuit and poison her over a period of 9 months.
We wouldn't want a bunch of inconsequential cells dying, now would we?

Khameo, stop it. I am a rape victim. This post just show that you don't care for those of us who have lived through these nightmares, and instead seek just to post your violent fantasies. Enough!

 

[Khameo]

Khameo, stop it. I am a rape victim. This post just show that you don't care for those of us who have lived through these nightmares, and instead seek just to post your violent fantasies. Shut the hell up.

If you're a rape victim, then you should understand.
Pro-lifers are trying to take away your rights, dear.

 

[Ramona]

If you're a rape victim, then you should understand.
Pro-lifers are trying to take away your rights, dear.

That's not the type of pro-lifer I am, and those who do feel that way are the lunatic fringe, and I do and will continue to oppose them vehemently.

Now will you stop? My whole body is shaking.

 

[Khameo]

That's not the type of pro-lifer I am, and those who do feel that way are the lunatic fringe, and I do and will continue to oppose them vehemently.

Now will you stop? My whole body is shaking.

Being pro-life means you're against abortion.
You support abortion (albeit under restricted circumstances), and therefore, you're pro-choice.
You need to understand, though, that labelling yourself as 'pro-life' actually gives power to the so called lunatic fringe (I disagree with the assumption that hardcore prolifers are uncommon) that you're trying to fight against.

 

[Ramona]

Being pro-life means you're against abortion.
You support abortion (albeit under restricted circumstances), and therefore, you're pro-choice.
You need to understand, though, that labelling yourself as 'pro-life' actually gives power to the so called lunatic fringe (I disagree with the assumption that hardcore prolifers are uncommon) that you're trying to fight against.

Sorry but it's not that simple...I am a complicated person with complicated viewpoints...I just don't want any talk of watermelons and rape anymore. That was my point.

 

[Pwnerer]

Sorry but it's not that simple...I am a complicated person with complicated viewpoints...I just don't want any talk of watermelons and rape anymore. That was my point.

I recommend the 'ignore' function. Just click on his name and it will pop up.
When I was a kid I was sexually abused, so I can empathize a bit.
I understand the right to do what you want with your body. But 'doing what you want with your body" means physical harm to another, well, I believe that right stops there. I feel a bit torn on the rape aspect.

 

[Ramona]

I recommend the 'ignore' function. Just click on his name and it will pop up.
When I was a kid I was sexually abused, so I can empathize a bit.

((((HUGS)))) I'm so sorry to hear that. My heart aches for what you went through. Really.

As for being torn on the rape aspect...me too. Seriously, seriously.

 

[Pwnerer]

((((HUGS)))) I'm so sorry to hear that. My heart aches for what you went through. Really.

Hey now, don't cry for me. I'm fine. Fortunately I healed pretty easily.

 

[Khameo]

Sorry but it's not that simple...I am a complicated person with complicated viewpoints...I just don't want any talk of watermelons and rape anymore. That was my point.

The world is not black and white, but there are people who say it is, in order to manipulate people.
As long as you're labeling yourself as pro-life, you'll be lumped in with the so called 'lunatic fringe'. Your opinions are much more complex than that, I have no doubt, but by and large, people don't care about anything that is more complicated than simple duality.
I'm not saying this is the way things should be, but I am saying that this is the way things are.

 

[Ramona]

Hey now, don't cry for me. I'm fine. Fortunately I healed pretty easily.

That's good to hear. I didn't heal so well...but I post about that in the Recovery forums, not Debate.

The world is not black and white, but there are people who say it is, in order to manipulate people.
As long as you're labeling yourself as pro-life, you'll be lumped in with the so called 'lunatic fringe'. Your opinions are much more complex than that, I have no doubt, but by and large, people don't care about anything that is more complicated than simple duality.
I'm not saying this is the way things should be, but I am saying that this is the way things are.

You know, you have a lot of really interesting and intelligent things to say. I didn't want to be mean before, but do you see how the aggression can be off-putting? I know that labels aren't very accurate for me, but I'm much more pro-life than pro-choice...although usually I just say "anti-abortion," for the purpose of this forum, I say "pro-life."

 

[Pwnerer]

The world is not black and white, but there are people who say it is, in order to manipulate people.
As long as you're labeling yourself as pro-life, you'll be lumped in with the so called 'lunatic fringe'. Your opinions are much more complex than that, I have no doubt, but by and large, people don't care about anything that is more complicated than simple duality.
I'm not saying this is the way things should be, but I am saying that this is the way things are.

Indeed. There is much more to it than "Those people want to steal your rights; I am here to save you".
Dyoooopotmeetkeettle

 

[WatersMoon110]

Being pro-life means you're against abortion.
You support abortion (albeit under restricted circumstances), and therefore, you're pro-choice.
You need to understand, though, that labelling yourself as 'pro-life' actually gives power to the so called lunatic fringe (I disagree with the assumption that hardcore prolifers are uncommon) that you're trying to fight against.

It really depends more on what the person in question feels most strongly about. Someone might call themselves "Pro-Choice" but only believe that abortions should happen in the first and second trimester, or just in the first, or in all three. They might never, personally, ever want or get an abortion, but still believe that abortion should be legal at some times. They might even believe that abortion should only be legal, or used, in very specific cases (like the first trimester and in cases of birth defects and the health of the pregnant woman).

Likewise, someone might call themselves "Pro-Life" but believe that abortion should be allowed in cases to save the life of the pregnant woman, or in cases where the health (physical and sometimes mental) of the pregnant women is at risk. Some feel that abortion should be allowed in cases of rape, while others do not. Some feel that cases of incest should be allowed also (but less).

Just because someone believes that there are times when an abortion should be a legal option doesn't automatically make them Pro-Choice. Almost without fail, Pro-Lifers tend to agree that abortions to save the life of the pregnant woman should be allowed.

 

[morningstar2651]

I wanna get some public opinion on the group known as Bound4Life. Apparently, it's some pro-life organization (raises red flags for a good third of you here), and I wanted to get some opinions since I'm doing research on them. Here's their myspace if you want to see for yourself:

http://www.myspace.com/redwarriors

I already know what I think, but I want to see what others think about it.

I have a sinking feeling in the pit of my wallet that they are exploiting the younger kids for money.

Seriously, $2 for a red bracelet?

Their goal is to sell 10 million bracelets. To quote them: " We seek to mobilize 10 million young people who will wear red LIFE bands." I fail to see how that would have any effect on abortion.

There are more productive ways to reduce the prevalence of abortion. While purchasing a $2 bracelet may somehow make one feel that they are contributing, they aren't.

 

[[serious]]

Closing for review