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Born as sinners?

Discussion in 'Exploring Christianity' started by Oceanmoon, Dec 4, 2019.

  1. Oceanmoon

    Oceanmoon New Member

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    Hi,
    In Christianity what does it say about being inherently sinful, and that we have sinful nature? What does it mean?? I have read and I gather that we are all born sinners, because of Adam and Eve? How can this still be when baby newborns are pure and guiltless, what can they do because of Adam's fault :( also what can be done to be accepted by Jesus, despite this inherent sin?

    Do we have to repent because of Adam's sin? How can this be achieved?

    Thank you..
     
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  2. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Repent because of our own sin, each and every person.

    "Repent" = as Jesus says "TURN to YAHUWEH (GOD), because HIS KINGDOM is here, at hand".
    i.e.
    leave the kingdom of the enemy that all people are subject to in the flesh,
    and turn to Yahuweh to enter through Jesus into HIS KINGDOM now, today, forever.
     
  3. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Good question while seeking Yahuweh....

    Same question in Acts 2:

    Study Bible
    Three Thousand Believe
    37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and asked Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized(immersed), every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit(Ruach Hakodash= Breath of God) . 39This promise belongs to you and your children and to all who are far off—to all whom the Lord our God will call to Himself.”…Berean Study Bible ·
     
  4. Sanoy

    Sanoy Well-Known Member

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    There is a lot of theological disagreement on the ontology of this, like original sin, so let me speak to what we all agree upon. Paul states this best in Romans 7.

    Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. 14For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. 15For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

    21So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
    When Paul speaks of being delivered from this body of death he is referring to a Roman practice whereby a prisoner was changed to a dead body. This is the sense in which we have a sin nature. That we have this dead body in us, pulling against our decisions to be righteous. It is that nature that leads us to sin.
     
  5. Oceanmoon

    Oceanmoon New Member

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    Sorry what does the gift Holy Spirit mean? What does baptized and immersed mean? From what I understand is that Yahuweh is God through Jesus? ? Thanks.
     
  6. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    I don't know enough at this point to correctly explain this to you, perhaps because of cultural and language and meanings of words differences.
    I suggest do an internet search for the meanings of the words,
    preferably with a Bible search engine or with Biblical meanings?
    (Might be illegal or censored in your area?)
     
  7. TzephanYahu

    TzephanYahu Member

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    Shalom Oceanmoon,

    We inherited our bodies, ultimately, from Adam.

    In Hebrew, this body or "earth suit" we wear in this world is called the Nephesh.

    Now, if you have an error in the production code of the master template - it will carry across into all reproductions. In the same way, our Nephesh has been born with this error in its code - that error being sin and disobedience. Hence, everyone born into this world - if they have a human body, will be born as a "faulty model" or in sin by default.

    Hopefully that makes some sense to you and I haven't confused you more!

    Love & Shalom
     
  8. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

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    That newborn baby has inherited Adam's fallen nature. That's how Creation is set up to work; children inherit their parents' characteristics, for better or worse. But sin is not accounted against the child at that point, because the child has not made a conscious decision to sin, and indeed is ignorant of the concept of the law and sin and is incapable of making such a decision. Romans 5.13 and several other passages support this:

    for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. ​

    However there will come an age where the child has developed a conscience and becomes accountable for its decisions. At that point its initial innocence will be gone and it is necessary to find reconciliation to God.

    How is that done? Romans 10 gives the essentials of salvation:

    But what does it say? "The word is near you, even in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
    that if you will confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and will believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
    For with the heart one believes to righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to salvation.
    For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." -Rom 10:8-11​

    Going back to Adam, God could have abandoned the human race when Adam rebelled. But instead He stuck with us. Indeed, His reaction to their sin forms the first prophecy of the Bible:

    And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel." -Gen 3:15​

    God is speaking past the serpent there, to the Devil, who animated him. The woman is Israel, whose seed is the Christ.

    In giving Himself for us, Jesus paid Adam's outstanding sin-debt, therefore setting us free. God accepted the sacrifice, as is shown by the resurrection of Christ on the third day. Now all who place faith in Jesus, as according to Romans 10, above, are reconciled back to the Father and inherit eternal life.

    "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. - Jn 3.16​

    I may have covered some of this ground before with you - if so, forgive me, it's hard to keep track. :) But I think some repetition is good, anyway. Be well.
     
  9. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    Deep (and good) questions. Paul and others were speaking (under inspiration) to help us understand why there is evil in the world.

    How it is that evil came to be so pervasive in the world?

    Of course, evil did not become the huge force is it that we can see around us in the world because of infants. Not at all.

    In fact, Christ pointed to how little children are at the first in key ways acceptable, in certain ways pleasing to God, before they themselves fall into evil (later, as they get older) --
    Luke 18:16 But Jesus called the children to Him and said, "Let the little children come to Me and do not hinder them! For the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.
    Matthew 18:3 "Truly I tell you," He said, "unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

    No, little children are not yet entrained in evil at the start.

    But the world is.

    Evil has come into this world, and is pervasive, and we are all infected with it early on, though it takes times to turn into a full illness.

    Each child will eventually grow older and fall into evil because we are in a fallen world where each person at times fails to trust in God, and in His ways commanded to us! We could resist evil if we always trusted in God and followed his ways, but we are not strong enough to do that on our own. Thus the sin of Adam -- not trusting God -- has infected us all. At some point. But not forever!

    It is grown men and women who are accountable and will be held to account for their evil actions (Romans 2:6-16 , 4:15, 5:13).

    And Paul and others wrote to help explain to us how that situation -- the "fallen" world -- came about.

    And Christ is the way for us to be rescued, redeemed from that evil, and reborn, anew!

    He is the way for us to be changed in a profound deep way, to begin to better follow God's way.

    He is the way, the truth, and the Life.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  10. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    No we are not guilty or born with Adam's sin, but we do suffer the consequences of it...
     
  11. crossnote

    crossnote Berean Supporter

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    Our sin nature has been passed down from Adam. Since Adam's sin, all men continue to sin (except One) and thus all have died. Babies die and are no exception.
    One must be born again...that is we must receive the new nature which is being renewed daily and thus live eternally. Those clinging on to their old nature (of Adam) will perish with that nature.
     
  12. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    < shrugs > we sin
    Jesus helps us.
    we sin.
    we repent.
    Jesus forgives us. (if we really repent)
    we die.
    we go to be with Jesus.

    (we (born again ones, ekklesia) live abiding in Jesus TODAY, every day)
     
  13. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
    .And in sin my mother conceived me."

    . . . . . . . . . . . (Psalm 51:5)

    So, based on this scripture, I accept that all humans were born in sin.

    But God loves us and desires to set us free from our sinful stuff.

    "'For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.'" (John 3:16)
     
  14. chilehed

    chilehed Veteran

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    Adam and Eve were created in a state of holiness, which was lost when they committed the first sin.

    We know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state. It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice.
    And that is why original sin is called “sin” only in an analogical sense: it is a sin “contracted” and not “committed”—a state and not an act.

    Although it is proper to each individual, original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it; subject to ignorance, suffering, and the dominion of death; and inclined to sin—an inclination to evil that is called “concupiscence.”
     
  15. Oceanmoon

    Oceanmoon New Member

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    thank you.
     
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  16. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Not all Christians necessarily subscribe to Original Sin in the classic sense, the Eastern Churches subscribe to the idea of Ancestral Sin, but only the Western Churches subscribe to Original Sin as inherited sinf/sinfulness.

    What Original Sin is not: Original Sin does not mean that we are guilty for Adam's sin. We aren't guilty for anything except our own sinful actions.

    What Original Sin is: Original Sin is the idea that we have all inherited a sinful condition, the proclivity to sin, the drive toward sin. Theologians call this concupiscence, it is the inward-facing desire, the "lusts of the flesh" as it were. It's the drive and desire to satisfy ourselves. It's not merely desire, as in, "I am hungry, and so I desire food." It is instead the perversion of the natural appetites. It is desire oriented inward to myself, and away and against others. Lutherans have another term for this, we call this homo incurvatus in se, Latin for "man bent inward upon himself", the "inwardly curved man". This is man who seeks himself, whose desires are oriented to gratify himself even at the expense of his neighbor. To put himself first, to lift himself up, to prioritize himself, the pursuit of his own glory.

    It is this which we have all inherited, an instinct, a drive, which is bent and curved inward. This inward drive is sinful, and it bears sinful fruit. It is from this which springs actual sins--envy, pride, murder, theft, greed, malice, violence, hatred, cursing, etc.

    We are all conceived, and thus born, with this part of our humanity--a broken, fallen part of our humanity. We do not believe anyone is culpable for anything except their own actions, and thus obviously infants have not yet committed any sins--but each of us bears in ourselves the innate drive toward sin borne out of an inborn illness and ailment; of a will corrupted and driven inward and against others.


    Nothing. But then, there's nothing we need to do to be accepted by Jesus, because Jesus is the One who accepts us. A physician does not come for the healthy, but the sick. Christ came to save sinners. And so, as sinners, we have been called and saved by a God of love and kindness, and He has done this through Jesus Christ, so that in Christ though we are sinners we have been made God's children by grace. Christ makes us acceptable. Because in Him is found forgiveness of sins, a perfect righteousness, and the grace of God which renders us holy. And so we have the good news of God saving us by His grace alone in Christ alone, and are called to devote ourselves to lives as disciples of Jesus, loving our fellow man in imitation of Christ.

    We do not seek good works in order to be accepted by God, we seek good works in order to love our neighbor.

    We repent because of our own sin. The call to repentance is a call to dying to ourselves, to take up our cross and follow Jesus and share in His suffering as we devote ourselves to loving and serving others. Repentance is part of the daily cross we must carry in this life as we learn how to die to ourselves and our passions, and putting our hope and trust in the Christ who saves us. To orient our minds forward to Christ, the Author and Finisher of our faith, as we run the race of this life.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
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