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All right. Just for fun, point me to the verses you cited which deal directly with the items I mentioned in my post (#57). Those would be Papal Infallibility, Indulgences, and Seven Sacraments.
I see comments about Communion, bishops, the need to confess sins, etc. etc.
You are kidding.... right? If you didn't, wouldn't or couldn't see them the first go around, what would make me think you would the second time around?
Well, I gave you the chance to show me to have been mistaken. I knew, of course, that you might make some sort of case for one or two of those quotes you gave us, but that this would be the best that could be done, and it wouldn't be a strong case.
For example, confessing ones sins during worship does not make Confession/Reconciliation into a sacrament. The Catholic Church itself didn't consider it to be a sacrament for many centuries, let alone settle on seven of them. Not until the High Middle Ages.
And there was nothing whatsoever in your citations that dealt with Papal Infallibility. The primacy of St. Peter and the prominence of the Roman diocese perhaps, but that's not Papal Infallibility...which also wasn't a doctrine through most of Catholic Church history. So those are some examples of what I was referring to.
Seeing how the apostle Paul was appointed as the apostle to the Gentile world we should follow what He had written. In realation to the question is the follwoing.My question is simple yet requires much thought. If a person is born again they then become saved, inseparable from God is this the correct interpretation? In order to do so I must accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior? Is this exact wording based on the scripture or is the phrase "accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior" a man made phrase not actually found in scripture anywhere?
Consider what the apostle to the Gentiles; appointed so by Jesus Chist, had to say about it.My question is simple yet requires much thought. If a person is born again they then become saved, inseparable from God is this the correct interpretation? In order to do so I must accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior? Is this exact wording based on the scripture or is the phrase "accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior" a man made phrase not actually found in scripture anywhere?
Christ speaks of the new birth in the third chapter of the Gospel of John. The new birth is, in theological terms, regeneration.
I'm somewhat surprised that, as a Catholic, you aren't familiar with this. Jesus says in John 3:5 that the new birth is by water and the Spirit:
-CryptoLutheran
I believe accepting the Lord as a personal savior is more of an invitation than a command. IMO anyway.My question is simple yet requires much thought. If a person is born again they then become saved, inseparable from God is this the correct interpretation? In order to do so I must accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior? Is this exact wording based on the scripture or is the phrase "accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior" a man made phrase not actually found in scripture anywhere?
In the Gospels, Christ said that the Jews He was ministering to must be born again to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (or God). Christ was a minister to Israel, not Gentiles - Jn 1:31, Mt 15:24. There was nothing said about being born again being related to salvation and I know of no place where it says that Gentiles must be born again. He also said that one must be born of water and Spirit. Obviously, that is water baptism and the baptism of the Spirit. In Eph 2:15, Col 2:14, 2:20, it says that the ordinances (e.g., water baptism) were taken out of the way for us Gentiles.
We are Gentiles and we must listen to Paul, THE apostle, preacher, minister, and teacher to the Gentiles. Paul's Gospel of Salvation is found in 1Cor 15:1-4. Listen to Paul.
After Acts, Paul received special revelations from God (as he always did) and he wrote 7 new books - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon. In these, a brand new Church was enacted, the Church Which is Christ's Body, Where Christ is the Head.
Oh, I see. So Paul gained new special revelations, not mentioned in Scripture, and gave these revelations in new books while he was under house arrest in Rome. Which is why Paul says the same things in Ephesians, Colossians, and Philippians as he does in Romans, 1&2 Corinthians, and Galatians.
I mean, after all, seeing as God turned away from Israel then we have no reason to believe that Jews and Gentiles are all united into the one and same Church would be mentioned in these letters as they were in, say, Romans. And we certainly shouldn't expect the Apostle to be advocating the importance of Holy Baptism any longer, after all Baptism was done away with right? Which is definitely why the Apostle doesn't mention the significance and importance of Baptism in Colossians 2 or Titus 3. I mean, the Apostle certainly wouldn't talk about how the dividing wall between Jews and Gentiles has been eradicated in Christ Jesus and that He would make of two peoples one as he does in Ephesians. And he absolutely would never, ever say the same thing in Colossians that he did in Galatians where he declare that there is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, for all are made one in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I mean, very obviously Paul preached a completely different and entirely new message in the seven letters you mention that can't be found in the rest of Paul's letters, or in the Acts, or in the four Gospels, or in the Catholic Epistles. I mean it's not like Peter says that the Gentiles who formerly were not a people are now a people in Christ.
I mean, how silly it must be to believe that from all eternity God has had one purpose for all of creation in Jesus Christ and that through Jesus Christ God would heal, save, and redeem the world; and that He began all of this by calling a certain man from Ur of the Chaldeans, and giving him the promise that there would come One promised and that through this One Abraham would become the father of many nations. And through the descendants of Abraham's grandson Jacob God would set the groundwork by calling together a people to a particular place, give them commandments, and send them Prophets all to point toward the coming of One who would be Savior of the world, of the line of David. And that this very One was, indeed, born of a Virgin in the City of David, even Christ the Lord, who would go to proclaim the coming of God's reign and turn every expectation of what God's power and authority looks like by not being a conqueror, but the Son of Man laying down His life. That the kingdom of God does not come with observation, but came manifest in a Galilean Carpenter preaching good news to the outcasts, the unwanted, and sinners that there is a God who this Jesus calls Father, who spoke through the patriarchs and prophets of old and by them proclaimed His coming. And that this God would desire to be Father to a rebellious creation who lifted a middle finger, but He nevertheless shows us His love that even though we are sinners, Christ died for us.
After all, that Christ would show us what the kingdom of God looks like by surrendering Himself in loving obedience to His Father--even to the point of the cross thereby emptying and pouring Himself out, not exploiting His own Godhead--and we behold that, indeed truly and really the greatest in God's kingdom is the least, for the least of the kingdom is indeed greater than John the Baptist. As He who is greatest is made least for our sakes. And that, indeed, we come entering into the kingdom by the grace of God, through new birth which we have received from a gracious and kind God who takes wretched sinners and declares them sons and daughters by clothing them with the righteousness of His Son. I mean--could you imagine how silly that would be if, indeed that were what the Bible taught?
Indeed, this is all quite silly. There clearly isn't a beautiful narrative of God's redemption showcased throughout the whole of the Biblical story that comes together and reaches climax in the coming of the Messiah; and Paul very obviously doesn't preach the same Gospel in one place and also the other. Very obviously there are many gospels, which is absolutely why in Galatians the Apostle says that if anyone, even if they or an angel declare a gospel other than the one they had heard from them already that such a one is anathema.
Which is definitely why we should receive another gospel other than the one Paul and the rest of the Apostles and which Christ our God Himself proclaimed in the flesh. I'm sure anathema is probably a good word and nothing at all to be concerned about.
-CryptoLutheran
Listen to Jesus in John 3:
You must be born again from above...spiritually changed.
This is explained in Ephesians 2.
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