Bored with the church enamored with Israel

[oikonomia]

I am a- millennial, no Kingdom on earth until The "New Heaven and Earth aka, The New Jerusalem" replaces it, as stated in Revelation 11:15 forever and ever, not just 1000 years.

Don't worry about the label you're committed to.
Just be concerned for what the Bible shows.
I mean for the sake of a label on a school interpretation don't miss anything.

Revelation 21
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

Blessings

The church age has its share of the kingdom on earth.
The millennial period has its further share of the kingdom on earth.
And the new heaven and new earth following the millennial has its ultimate manifestation of the kingdom on earth.

Here is the difference between the millennial time and the eternal age.

God in His wisdom knew that of all the multitude of those saved
some would take it for granted and others would give greater cooperation.

So before the eternal age He established the preliminary 1,000 years as an incentive, a reward.
Those who are not defeated but overcome through His grace are rewarded with the millennial time.
The rest who were tardy need further perfection. ALL the saved join at the end for the eternal age.

The blowing of seventh trumpet about which I asked contains the kingdoms of this
earth becomming God's kingdoms for 1,000 years AND the following eternal age when ALL His saved reign forever.

Revelation 11:15-18 -

And the seventh angel trumpeted; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever. (Rev. 11:15)

Saying, We thank You, Lord God the Almighty, He who is and who was, because You have taken Your great power and have reigned. (v.17)

And the nations became angry, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to give the reward to Your slaves the prophets and to the saints and to those who fear Your name, to the small and to the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth. (v.18)

This chapter 11 is the end of the first half of Revelation.
From chapters 12 - 22 is the second prophecy which REVISITS certain matters of the first prophecy.

Here we see the heads up that the scroll which opens God's will is given as a prophecy
Then John is told by the Angel to prophesy again.
That is the larger scroll from chapter 5 and the little scroll of chapter 10.

And I went to the Angel and told Him to give me the little scroll. And He said to me, Take it and devour it, and it will make your stomach bitter, but in your mouth it will be as sweet as honey.

And I took the little scroll out of the hand of the Angel and devoured it, and it was as sweet as honey in my mouth; and when I had eaten it, my stomach became bitter.

And they said to me, You must prophesy again over many peoples and nations and tongues and kings. (Rev. 10:9-11)

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Don't worry about the label you're committed to.
Just be concerned for what the Bible shows.
I mean for the sake of a label on a school interpretation don't miss anything.


The church age has its share of the kingdom on earth.
The millennial period has its further share of the kingdom on earth.
And the new heaven and new earth following the millennial has its ultimate manifestation of the kingdom on earth.

Here is the difference between the millennial time and the eternal age.

God in His wisdom knew that of all the multitude of those saved
some would take it for granted and others would give greater cooperation.

So before the eternal age He established the preliminary 1,000 years as an incentive, a reward.
Those who are not defeated but overcome through His grace are rewarded with the millennial time.
The rest who were tardy need further perfection. ALL the saved join at the end for the eternal age.

The blowing of seventh trumpet about which I asked contains the kingdoms of this
earth becomming God's kingdoms for 1,000 years AND the following eternal age when ALL His saved reign forever.

Revelation 11:15-18 -

And the seventh angel trumpeted; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever. (Rev. 11:15)

Saying, We thank You, Lord God the Almighty, He who is and who was, because You have taken Your great power and have reigned. (v.17)

And the nations became angry, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to give the reward to Your slaves the prophets and to the saints and to those who fear Your name, to the small and to the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth. (v.18)

This chapter 11 is the end of the first half of Revelation.
From chapters 12 - 22 is the second prophecy which REVISITS certain matters of the first prophecy.

Here we see the heads up that the scroll which opens God's will is given as a prophecy and a prophesying again of John.
That is the larger scroll from chapter 5 and the little scroll of chapter 10.

And I went to the Angel and told Him to give me the little scroll. And He said to me, Take it and devour it, and it will make your stomach bitter, but in your mouth it will be as sweet as honey.

And I took the little scroll out of the hand of the Angel and devoured it, and it was as sweet as honey in my mouth; and when I had eaten it, my stomach became bitter.

And they said to me, You must prophesy again over many peoples and nations and tongues and kings. (rev. 10:9-11)

Thanks for sharing but I came out of Dispensationalism and it's Futurism long ago. I am more at peace now. Blessings

 

[oikonomia]

Thanks for sharing but I came out of Dispensationalism and it's Futurism long ago. I am more at peace now. Blessings

I don't give my top allegience to "isms".
I say "Amen" to whatever the Bible says.

That is the way of greatest blessing.
Creeds, isms, schools of interpretation with labels can only be of so much help.

The greatest blessing is to just take what it says rather than
promise allegience to a systematic creed or an ism.

 

[oikonomia]

I do not think the Bible can be systematized 100%.
Whatever "ism" one favors, somewhere there will be something written that goes against it.

Men feel obligated to rid the word of God of all contradictions and paradoxes.
I don't think it can be done 100%.

What it says, just say "Amen" in spirit.
Touch life, find Christ, ingest God, believe His promises.
Maybe we cannot make a comptuer like flowchart with everything in the Bible.

 

[Dan Perez]

Thanks for sharing but I came out of Dispensationalism and it's Futurism long ago. I am more at peace now. Blessings

Just curious as to why you left dispensationalism and what was the reason , just asking ?

Just one reason that I believe in DISPENSATIONALISM is in 1 Tim 1:4 ., rather than God's Dispensation , the one by Faith !!

This means that to be in the FAITH you have to be a DISPENSATIONALIST ,

The KJV translated OIKONOMIA as meaning EDIFYING instead of Dispensationalism .

The Greek word Dispensation is also found in 1 Cor 9:17 , in Eph 3:2 , in Eph 1:10 and Col 1:25

dan p

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Just curious as to why you left dispensationalism and what was the reason , just asking ?

Just one reason that I believe in DISPENSATIONALISM is in 1 Tim 1:4 ., rather than God's Dispensation , the one by Faith !!

This means that to be in the FAITH you have to be a DISPENSATIONALIST ,

The KJV translated OIKONOMIA as meaning EDIFYING instead of Dispensationalism .

The Greek word Dispensation is also found in 1 Cor 9:17 , in Eph 3:2 , in Eph 1:10 and Col 1:25

dan p

Many errors.

 

[Dan Perez]

Many errors.

What errors did you see??

dan p

 

[Guojing]

I notice that many dear Christians seem to have rather given up on the church
and are enamored with prophecy about Israel.

When the kingdom of God in the millennium is brought up they run to Daniel and the OT
and go on and on about promises to Israel.

When Revelation or Matthew is discussed MOST of their understanding in influenced by OT prophecy about Israel.
I do not under estimate the importance of God keeping His promises to Israel.

But this ignoring and under appreciating the church is not good.
Why give up in boredom on the glorious church?

She is God's eternal purpose and Christ's bride and wife. (Eph. 5:25-27)
She is "the pillar and base of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15)

Israel was physical and God promised them physical blessings if they obey him, namely health and wealth.

So it is understandable that we in the Body of Christ, our flesh still desire those.

 

[Dan Perez]

Many errors.

What errors do you man , with verses , would like your THOUGHTS if possible ??

dan p

 

[Bobber]

That being said, there is a degree of covetousness towards a nation that is quite alarming.

Might I ask what you 'mean by this?

 

[Bobber]

Thanks for sharing but I came out of Dispensationalism and it's Futurism long ago. I am more at peace now. Blessings

So do you believe all the things of Revelation happened long ago?

 

[Guojing]

I notice that many dear Christians seem to have rather given up on the church
and are enamored with prophecy about Israel.

When the kingdom of God in the millennium is brought up they run to Daniel and the OT
and go on and on about promises to Israel.

When Revelation or Matthew is discussed MOST of their understanding in influenced by OT prophecy about Israel.
I do not under estimate the importance of God keeping His promises to Israel.

But this ignoring and under appreciating the church is not good.
Why give up in boredom on the glorious church?

She is God's eternal purpose and Christ's bride and wife. (Eph. 5:25-27)
She is "the pillar and base of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15)

It depends to what extent one believes in replacement theology.

Where would you stand on that spectrum?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Might I ask what you 'mean by this?

It is the lack of contentment it creates. Jesus Christ of Nazareth said over and over that His "chosen people " are those who follow Him. We hear His voice. By identifying geopolitical Isreal as" His chosen people " the Gospel of the Kingdom of God is of no effect to them unless they believe and become one with His chosen. Worst yet , is the deception it creates keeping them from the true Gospel of Jesus Christ of Nazareth delivered through misinformation and by coveting a nation of unbelievers.
We can not serve two masters.
Blessings.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Just curious as to why you left dispensationalism and what was the reason , just asking ?

The end game is to promote deception to geopolitical Israel. This is why I left. Jesus Christ of Nazareth did not command us to decieve, He commanded us to harvest for His Kingdom. Blessings

 

[oikonomia]

It depends to what extent one believes in replacement theology.

Where would you stand on that spectrum?

I do not know much about this "replacement theology."
I suspect it has something to do with God eliminating a group of people for another group.

God's eternal purpose ever involves the dispensing of Himself INTO man.
This is true of all in the church, and eventually in all in New Jerusalem.
Her foundations have the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Her gates have the names of the twelve tribes of Israel.

These are signs. The city, which is a Bride and Wife of Christ is
a entity in which the Triune God has dispensed His life and nature into man for a mingling
of divinity and humanity.

If there is any "replacement" to my understanding it is the complete
replacement of the fallen Satanified humanity with the God filled divinized, glorified humanity - God-men.
That is a humanity that has been united and incorporated with the life, nature, and expression of the Triune God.

Now I see the millennial time as also a time when God keeps certain promises
to the nation of Israel along with rewards He ordains for the overcoming saints out of the church age.

 

[Guojing]

I do not know much about this "replacement theology."
I suspect it has something to do with God eliminating a group of people for another group.

God's eternal purpose ever involves the dispensing of Himself INTO man.
This is true of all in the church, and eventually in all in New Jerusalem.
Her foundations have the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Her gates have the names of the twelve tribes of Israel.

These are signs. The city, which is a Bride and Wife of Christ is
a entity in which the Triune God has dispensed His life and nature into man for a mingling
of divinity and humanity.

If there is any "replacement" to my understanding it is the complete
replacement of the fallen Satanified humanity with the God filled divinized, glorified humanity - God-men.
That is a humanity that has been united and incorporated with the life, nature, and expression of the Triune God.

Now I see the millennial time as also a time when God keeps certain promises
to the nation of Israel along with rewards He ordains for the overcoming saints out of the church age.

This will be a good test question, "Do you think of yourself as spiritual Israel" in anyway?

 

[oikonomia]

This will be a good test question, "Do you think of yourself as spiritual Israel" in anyway?

Yes. And I think of Christ as our Canaan, our Promised Land, our land flowing with milk and honey in which He is everything
we and God need for God's eternal purpose. And as the twleve tribes were alloted their respective portions of the Promised Land we of the church have all been alloted a portion of this exhaustively rich "land" of Jesus Christ.

And as many as walk by this rule, peace be upon them and mercy, even upon the Israel of God. (Galatians 6:16)

Giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you for a share of the allotted portion of the saints in the light; (Col. 1:12)

 

[Guojing]

Yes. And I think of Christ as our Canaan, our Promised Land, our land flowing with milk and honey in which He is everything
we and God need for the completion of God's eternal purpose. We have all been alloted a portion of this exhaustively rich
"land" of Jesus Christ.

And as many as walk by this rule, peace be upon them and mercy, even upon the Israel of God. (Galatians 6:16)

Giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you for a share of the allotted portion of the saints in the light; (Col. 1:12)

In that case, you are subscribing to some form of replacement theology.

But when you read the land promises that was given to Israel in the OT, you spiritualize them into "Christ as our Canaan, our Promised Land", in order to make it fit into your beliefs.

 

[oikonomia]

In that case, you are subscribing to some form of replacement theology.

But when you read the land promises that was given to Israel in the OT, you spiritualize them into "Christ as our Canaan, our Promised Land", in order to make it fit into your beliefs.

The wrong headed "replacement" is coming from you. You replace Christ with something else.
This is the deception of your "replacement" of Jesus Christ by exalting the OT things above the Son of God.

The church understands "the Lamb of God" through the picture in Exodus.
Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29)

The church understands Christ as the greater Jonah through Jonah
For just as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights. (Matt. 12:40)

The church understands Christ as the greater Solomon with the help of Second Kings.
The queen of the south will rise up in the judgment with this generation and will condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and behold, something more than Solomon is here. (Matt. 12:42)

The church understands Christ as the house of God and the ladder connecting earth to heaven through Jacob's dream in Genesis.
And He said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, You shall see heaven opened and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man. (John 1:51)

The church understands Christ as the living temple of God through the Second Kings.
Jesus answered and said to them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
But He spoke of the temple of His body. (John 2:19,21)

How do we think of baptism into Christ without the ark of Noah and the crossing of the Red Sea? (Genesis, Exodus)
. . . in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared; entering into which, a few, that is,
eight souls, were brought safely through by water.
Which water, as the antitype, also now saves you, that is, baptism, not a putting away of the filth of the flesh but the appeal of a good conscience unto God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (1 Peter 3:20b,21)

We comprehend Christ as the living bread through Exodus.
I am the living bread which came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he shall live forever; and the bread which I will give is My flesh, given for the life of the world. (John 6:51)

How do we comprehend better Christ dying as the cursed one on our behalf through Numbers.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
That everyone who believes into Him may have eternal life. (John 3:14,15)

We understand Christ as the spiritual food and spiritual rock from which water of life flowed through Exodus.
And all ate the same spiritual food,
And all drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank of a spiritual rock which followed them, and the rock was Christ.
But with most of them God was not well pleased, for they were strewn along in the wilderness.

Now these things occurred as examples to us, that we should not be ones who lust after evil things, even as they also lusted.(1 Cor. 10:3-6)

 

[Guojing]

The wrong headed "replacement" is coming from you. You replace Christ with something else.
This is the deception of your "replacement" of Jesus Christ by exalting the OT things above the Son of God.

I have no idea how you came to that conclusion.

You are the one who consider yourself "Spiritual Israel" correct?