Book of Mormon Study Group: Input wanted

[happyinhisgrace]

Well alter if you would like me to site someone bashing, could always site you calling the doctrines of the LDS church are lies and falsehoods



And as for my not including scriptures. I didn't have much time when i posted that one. I was merely attempting to pull the form back on track, but since it is not wanted I guess I wont pursue it any more. If you really want one discuss this:

James 2: 17-24
17: Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18: Yea, a man may say, Though hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19: Though believest that there is one God; thou doest well; the devils also believe, and tremble.
20: But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21: Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22: Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23: And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

The teachings of the lds church are falsehoods that don't line up with the Bible. It's true, so sue me.

Grace

 

[AMMON]

The teachings of the lds church are falsehoods that don't line up with the Bible. It's true, so sue me.

Grace

Since you make a conclusory statement, I shall follow your lead. You are, I'm afraid, mistaken because you seemingly do not understand the Bible or its origins, which apparently leaves you without the insight required to understand that the falsehoods you allege are wholly defamatory in nature.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Since you make a conclusory statement, I shall follow your lead. You are, I'm afraid, mistaken because you seemingly do not understand the Bible or its origins, which apparently leaves you without the insight required to understand that the falsehoods you allege are wholly defamatory in nature.

LOL, you are good for a laugh anyway. Wrong, but amusingly so.

 

[Evee]

Happyinhisgrace
Why are you laughing?
I am not being scarcastic but if you have the truth as you seem to think.

You should teach in a loving way.

 

[Evee]

The teachings of the lds church are falsehoods that don't line up with the Bible. It's true, so sue me.

Grace

What is this supposed to mean....so sue me????

 

[mormonsoldia]

Well, how about somebody explain Joseph in Egypt prophesying of Joseph Smith and the Restoration of the Gospel in the Dispensation of the Fullness of times. If not Joseph, then who, and since no MC's here believe in an ordained Prophet of God and that Christ was the last, then how shall this prophecy be fullfilled? And if it be that a Restoration will happen, wouldn't that mean that more scripture would come forth? In which case, the Bible while being a work UNTO ITSELF as a testament of GOD shall be ACCOMPANIED by a SEPERATE WORK that shall confirm the truth of the first(the BIBLE).

 

[Serapha]

Well, how about somebody explain Joseph in Egypt prophesying of Joseph Smith and the Restoration of the Gospel in the Dispensation of the Fullness of times.

Hi there!




Source please... for your comments that Joseph prophesied of Joseph Smith.

If not Joseph, then who, and since no MC's here believe in an ordained Prophet of God and that Christ was the last, then how shall this prophecy be fullfilled?

What is an "MC"?

And if it be that a Restoration will happen, wouldn't that mean that more scripture would come forth? In which case, the Bible while being a work UNTO ITSELF as a testament of GOD shall be ACCOMPANIED by a SEPERATE WORK that shall confirm the truth of the first(the BIBLE).

The Old Testament has a companion... it's called the New Testament.

~serapha~

 

[mormonsoldia]

First off, MC is mainstream christian. Secondly, instead of asking me for a reference. Since you all know the Mormon well enough to testify of it's false doctrine, you find, in the Bible what I am speaking in reference to, and then how explain to me how my perception is flawed. Until you can do that, I really don't see any "ammunition" on your end of the table. the MC theory on religion has about as much shelf life as a wet rag in the desert sun.

 

[Wrigley]

Maybe it is my signature that turns them off. I know the Calvinist hate it.

Do you hate my tagline??

 

[Wrigley]

The teachings of the lds church are falsehoods that don't line up with the Bible. It's true, so sue me.

Grace

They just might.

 

[drstevej]

I got my conviction that the BoM is true, also, and I felt, not a "burninf of the bosom", but a sense of peace and asurity that it was-I felt that I KNEW that it was true. God left me with a feeling of knowldge. As I progressed, many times I was overcome with emotion as to the testimonies of the Prophets and apostles, and I knew that they were called of God. The one time that I felt the most emotion, was when I was looking at a picture of Christ with children, and I felt the overwhelming love of the Saviour, and I knew that He loved me, and would cherish me, through all my trials and tribulations. I have felt this same love a few times after that, and I am grateful for the Truth that the Lord has revealed to me.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon

So your emotions are a truth detector?

AND furthermore, if your conclusion is right... then EVERYONE who does not come to the SAME conclusion re the BoM is both wrong and rejecting the only true church (possessors of the keys and the priesthood).

Well count me in the Mormonism is a "ANOTHER GOSPEL" group. WHY?

False prophets, false scriptures, false ordinances, false hope and false assurances.

Does your bosom burn reading this?

Ga 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

​

 

[emerald Dragon]

So your emotions are a truth detector?

AND furthermore, if your conclusion is right... then EVERYONE who does not come to the SAME conclusion re the BoM is both wrong and rejecting the only true church (possessors of the keys and the priesthood).

Well count me in the Mormonism is a "ANOTHER GOSPEL" group. WHY?

False prophets, false scriptures, false ordinances, false hope and false assurances.

Does your bosom burn reading this?

Ga 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

​

My emotions are not a truth detector. However, the conviction that God sends to me is. I follow Him. God will speak to me through feelings, as many thimes that is the only way that some people can understand Him.
I don't believe in a gospel that perverts the gospel of Jesus Christ. The BoM doesn't do that. It is another part of His gospel, and helps us understand His message.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon

 

[Fire_Man]

16th century dialect in a 20th century book, can you say "New York court system con-man", Egyptian Hieroglyphs?? when have Gods people ever used these, I thought satan.....oh never mind, I wonder if Jesus told the disciples to go to every nation, (Great Commission) but America I got that one covered, hey Joseph I lost the first manuscript what now?
Man this bucket has so many holes the water just passes right through.

 

[Fire_Man]

Hey Dragon Buda has some great sayings too, as well as Gondi, and L. Ron Hubbard
Sorry but I find the whole Morman issue, well I'll put it this way, you have to want it real bad.

 

[Fire_Man]

Wait a minute I am missing the point and all the great sex, what a silly boy I am my wife is 5 months pregnant and I have gone without because I fogot that God says I can have as many wives as I please. I feel so silly now after all God di put more women on the planet and well surely He doesn't want them to not get married. Wow have I been missin out.

Ok sarcasm aside any religion that is guarded in secrecy, founded on one man and plays into the hands of mans lusting desires should raise flags.

 

[rnmomof7]

I was asked by a poster here to start a BofM study group and was wondering if any would be interested.

Prior to answering I need to say that its not intended to "convert" those non-LDS posters its was meant as a familiarization tool, I think.

I also need to mention I don't want a mud-slinging contest regarding this thread and this goes for both sides of the fence.

I welcome thought out critisism or commendation of the passages that will be posted.

Does this sound like an endeavor some here may be willing to do?

Additionally I not trying to set forth a comprehensive lists of DOs and DON'Ts, I would think that those as professing Christians can act in a civil manner one to another.

If you feel I missed a prerequisite for starting this thread, please let me know.

Thanks,

Tom

If you plan to do that Tom, you would not mind having someone have a discussion group on the "God Makers" or post from Lighthouse ministries I assume .

Knowing how the Mormons view the burning breast ,I think we can agree that it would be open evangelization

 

[Fire_Man]

Sorry seems I got lost in here, there are so many forums that I seem to have stumbled into this one and spouted off in a thread I should have left the sarcasm out of. My apologies I thought it was a more open discussion.

I would however be interested in some of the answers to the however tastless posts I made.
Again sorry for the sarcasm, not very Christ like huh, bad lama.

 

[rnmomof7]

My emotions are not a truth detector. However, the conviction that God sends to me is. I follow Him. God will speak to me through feelings, as many thimes that is the only way that some people can understand Him.
I don't believe in a gospel that perverts the gospel of Jesus Christ. The BoM doesn't do that. It is another part of His gospel, and helps us understand His message.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon

But you are using your emotions as the truth dectector . Mormons do not even believe it is necessary to read it ..only hold it.

God does not "speak " to us by our feelings. He speaks to us by His word as found in the Bible.
The Bible tells us the heart is wicked above all things .
Our "heart " can deceive us . The word of God can not .

It is now official Mormon doctrine that Joseph was visited by the Heavenly Father and the Son (the basis of believing that God the father has a glorified human body and the son has a human body ...this of course BEFORE Jesus ever had a human body to show anyone.)
Thus the doctrine men become gods

But how was it seen at first?

For more than many years after Joseph's death, Mormon leaders identified the "personages" who appear to Joseph and mark the start of Mormonism as angels, rather than the Father and the Son. It was not until 1874 that Mormon leaders begin consistently associating the appearance of the Father and the Son with the First Vision and the commencement of Mormonism.* Based on this evidence it would appear that Joseph changed his story of the first vision, and that the most common and well known version was one of angels appearing rather than the Father and Son.

Brigham Young - "The Lord did not come with the armies of heaven ... but He did send his angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun., who afterwards became a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong"** Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 171 (1855)




Wilford Woodruff - "The same organization and Gospel that Christ died for ... is again established in this generation.* How did it come? By the ministering of an holy angel from God, out of heaven, who held converse with man, and revealed unto him the darkness that enveloped the world ... He told him the Gospel was not among men, and that there was not a true organization of His kingdom in the world"* Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 196 (1855)




Wilford Woodruff - "Joseph was strengthened by the Spirit and power of God, and was enabled to listen to the teachings of the angel. ... The man to whom the angel appeared obeyed the Gospel."* Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 197 (1855)




Heber C. Kimball - "Do you suppose that God in person called upon Joseph Smith, our Prophet? God called upon him; but God did not come himself and call, but he sent Peter to do it."* Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 29 (1857)




Orson Hyde - "Some one may say, 'If this work of the last days be true, why did not the Saviour come himself to communicate this intelligence to the world?' Because to the angels was committed the power of reaping the earth, and it was committed to none else."* Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 335 (1854)




John Taylor - "How did the state of things called Mormonism originate? We read that an angel came down and revealed himself to Joseph Smith"* Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 127 (1863)




George A. Smith - "he [Joseph Smith] went humbly before the Lord and inquired of Him, and the Lord answered his prayer, and revealed to Joseph, by the ministration of angels, the true condition of the religious world. When the holy angel appeared, Joseph inquired which of all these denominations was right and which he should join, and was told they were all wrong"* Journal of Discourses, vol. 12, p. 334 (1863)




George A. Smith - "[Joseph] was enlightened by the vision of an holy angel. When this personage appeared to him, one of the first inquiries was 'Which of the denominations of Christians in the vicinity was right?' "* Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 78 (1869)




Wilford Woodruff - "How did it [Mormonism] commence? It commenced by an angel of God flying through the midst of heaven and visiting a young man named Joseph Smith in the year 1827. ... The Lord heard his prayer and sent His angel to him, who informed him that all the sects were wrong"* Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 324 (1869)




John Taylor - "None of them was right, just as it was when the Prophet Joseph asked the angel which of the sects was right that he might join it. The answer was that none of them are right."* Journal of Discourses, vol. 20, p. 167 (1879)




Oliver Cowdery - "You will remember that I mentioned the time of a religious excitement, in Palmyra and vicinity to have been in the 15th year of our Brother J. Smith Jr.s age that was an error in the type — it should have been in the 17th. — You will please remember the correction, as it will be necessary for the full understanding of what will follow in time. This would bring the date down to the year 1823."* Times and Seasons, vol. 2, p. 241 (1840)





Early testimony that the name of the angel who appeared to Joseph was Nephi, not Moroni.





"He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi." Millennial Star, vol. 3, p. 53 (1842)




"Again, when we read the history of our beloved brother, Joseph Smith, and of the glorious ministry and message of the angel Nephi"* Millennial Star, vol. 3, p. 71 (1842)




Joseph Smith - "When I first looked upon him I was afraid, but the fear soon left me. He called me by name, and said unto me, that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi."** 1851 Pearl of Great Price, p. 41 (1851)




Joseph Smith - "He called me by name, and said unto me, that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi."* Times and Seasons, vol. 3, p. 753 (1842)


So it seems there was uncertinity as to who delivered the document that gives men "burning breasts "


The bible says that no man can see God and live , It also says there will be many" false Christs" and that Satan is as an angel of light

I will leave you to ponder that my young friend

 

[fatboys]

But you are using your emotions as the truth dectector . Mormons do not even believe it is necessary to read it ..only hold it.

God does not "speak " to us by our feelings. He speaks to us by His word as found in the Bible.
The Bible tells us the heart is wicked above all things .
Our "heart " can deceive us . The word of God can not .

It is now official Mormon doctrine that Joseph was visited by the Heavenly Father and the Son (the basis of believing that God the father has a glorified human body and the son has a human body ...this of course BEFORE Jesus ever had a human body to show anyone.)
Thus the doctrine men become gods

But how was it seen at first?

For more than many years after Joseph's death, Mormon leaders identified the "personages" who appear to Joseph and mark the start of Mormonism as angels, rather than the Father and the Son. It was not until 1874 that Mormon leaders begin consistently associating the appearance of the Father and the Son with the First Vision and the commencement of Mormonism.* Based on this evidence it would appear that Joseph changed his story of the first vision, and that the most common and well known version was one of angels appearing rather than the Father and Son.

Brigham Young - "The Lord did not come with the armies of heaven ... but He did send his angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun., who afterwards became a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong"** Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 171 (1855)




Wilford Woodruff - "The same organization and Gospel that Christ died for ... is again established in this generation.* How did it come? By the ministering of an holy angel from God, out of heaven, who held converse with man, and revealed unto him the darkness that enveloped the world ... He told him the Gospel was not among men, and that there was not a true organization of His kingdom in the world"* Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 196 (1855)




Wilford Woodruff - "Joseph was strengthened by the Spirit and power of God, and was enabled to listen to the teachings of the angel. ... The man to whom the angel appeared obeyed the Gospel."* Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 197 (1855)




Heber C. Kimball - "Do you suppose that God in person called upon Joseph Smith, our Prophet? God called upon him; but God did not come himself and call, but he sent Peter to do it."* Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 29 (1857)




Orson Hyde - "Some one may say, 'If this work of the last days be true, why did not the Saviour come himself to communicate this intelligence to the world?' Because to the angels was committed the power of reaping the earth, and it was committed to none else."* Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 335 (1854)




John Taylor - "How did the state of things called Mormonism originate? We read that an angel came down and revealed himself to Joseph Smith"* Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 127 (1863)

George A. Smith - "he [Joseph Smith] went humbly before the Lord and inquired of Him, and the Lord answered his prayer, and revealed to Joseph, by the ministration of angels, the true condition of the religious world. When the holy angel appeared, Joseph inquired which of all these denominations was right and which he should join, and was told they were all wrong"* Journal of Discourses, vol. 12, p. 334 (1863)

FB:Journal of Discourses, Vol.12, p.334, George Albert Smith, November 15, 1868
Joseph Smith had attended these meetings, and when this result was reached he saw clearly that something was wrong. He had read the Bible and had found that passage in James which says "If any of you lack wisdom let him ask of God that giveth to all men liberally and upbraideth not," and taking this literally, he went humbly before the Lord and inquired of Him, and the Lord answered his prayer and revealed to Joseph, by the ministration of angels, the true condition of the religious world. When the holy angel appeared, Joseph inquired which of all these denominations was right and which he should join, and was told they were all wrong,--they had all gone astray, transgressed the laws, changed the ordinances and broken the everlasting covenant, and that the Lord was about to restore the priesthood and establish His Church, which would be the only true and living Church on the face of the whole earth.
Journal of Discourses, Vol.12, p.334, George Albert Smith, November 15, 1868
Joseph, feeling that to make known such a vision would be to subject himself to the ridicule of all around him, knew not what to do. But the vision was repeated several times, and in these repetitions he was instructed to communicate that which he had seen to his father. His father was not a member of any church, but was a man of exemplary life. His mother and bro. Hyrum were members of the Presbyterian church. Joseph communicated what he had seen to his father, who believed his testimony, and told him to observe the instructions that had been given him.
Journal of Discourses, Vol.12, p.334, George Albert Smith, November 15, 1868
These visits led, in a short time, to the bringing forth of the record known as the Book of Mormon, which contained the fullness of the Gospel as it had been preached by the Savior and his apostles to the inhabitants of this land; also a history of the falling away of the people who dwelt on this continent and the dealings of God with them.

George A. Smith - "[Joseph] was enlightened by the vision of an holy angel. When this personage appeared to him, one of the first inquiries was 'Which of the denominations of Christians in the vicinity was right?' "* Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 78 (1869)




Wilford Woodruff - "How did it [Mormonism] commence? It commenced by an angel of God flying through the midst of heaven and visiting a young man named Joseph Smith in the year 1827. ... The Lord heard his prayer and sent His angel to him, who informed him that all the sects were wrong"* Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 324 (1869)




John Taylor - "None of them was right, just as it was when the Prophet Joseph asked the angel which of the sects was right that he might join it. The answer was that none of them are right."* Journal of Discourses, vol. 20, p. 167 (1879)




Oliver Cowdery - "You will remember that I mentioned the time of a religious excitement, in Palmyra and vicinity to have been in the 15th year of our Brother J. Smith Jr.s age that was an error in the type — it should have been in the 17th. — You will please remember the correction, as it will be necessary for the full understanding of what will follow in time. This would bring the date down to the year 1823."* Times and Seasons, vol. 2, p. 241 (1840)





Early testimony that the name of the angel who appeared to Joseph was Nephi, not Moroni.





"He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi." Millennial Star, vol. 3, p. 53 (1842)




"Again, when we read the history of our beloved brother, Joseph Smith, and of the glorious ministry and message of the angel Nephi"* Millennial Star, vol. 3, p. 71 (1842)




Joseph Smith - "When I first looked upon him I was afraid, but the fear soon left me. He called me by name, and said unto me, that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi."** 1851 Pearl of Great Price, p. 41 (1851)




Joseph Smith - "He called me by name, and said unto me, that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi."* Times and Seasons, vol. 3, p. 753 (1842)


So it seems there was uncertinity as to who delivered the document that gives men "burning breasts "


The bible says that no man can see God and live , It also says there will be many" false Christs" and that Satan is as an angel of light

I will leave you to ponder that my young friend

 

[fatboys]

But you are using your emotions as the truth dectector . Mormons do not even believe it is necessary to read it ..only hold it.

God does not "speak " to us by our feelings. He speaks to us by His word as found in the Bible.
The Bible tells us the heart is wicked above all things .
Our "heart " can deceive us . The word of God can not .

It is now official Mormon doctrine that Joseph was visited by the Heavenly Father and the Son (the basis of believing that God the father has a glorified human body and the son has a human body ...this of course BEFORE Jesus ever had a human body to show anyone.)
Thus the doctrine men become gods

But how was it seen at first?

For more than many years after Joseph's death, Mormon leaders identified the "personages" who appear to Joseph and mark the start of Mormonism as angels, rather than the Father and the Son. It was not until 1874 that Mormon leaders begin consistently associating the appearance of the Father and the Son with the First Vision and the commencement of Mormonism.* Based on this evidence it would appear that Joseph changed his story of the first vision, and that the most common and well known version was one of angels appearing rather than the Father and Son.

Brigham Young - "The Lord did not come with the armies of heaven ... but He did send his angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun., who afterwards became a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong"** Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 171 (1855)




Wilford Woodruff - "The same organization and Gospel that Christ died for ... is again established in this generation.* How did it come? By the ministering of an holy angel from God, out of heaven, who held converse with man, and revealed unto him the darkness that enveloped the world ... He told him the Gospel was not among men, and that there was not a true organization of His kingdom in the world"* Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 196 (1855)




Wilford Woodruff - "Joseph was strengthened by the Spirit and power of God, and was enabled to listen to the teachings of the angel. ... The man to whom the angel appeared obeyed the Gospel."* Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 197 (1855)




Heber C. Kimball - "Do you suppose that God in person called upon Joseph Smith, our Prophet? God called upon him; but God did not come himself and call, but he sent Peter to do it."* Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 29 (1857)




Orson Hyde - "Some one may say, 'If this work of the last days be true, why did not the Saviour come himself to communicate this intelligence to the world?' Because to the angels was committed the power of reaping the earth, and it was committed to none else."* Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 335 (1854)




John Taylor - "How did the state of things called Mormonism originate? We read that an angel came down and revealed himself to Joseph Smith"* Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 127 (1863)




George A. Smith - "he [Joseph Smith] went humbly before the Lord and inquired of Him, and the Lord answered his prayer, and revealed to Joseph, by the ministration of angels, the true condition of the religious world. When the holy angel appeared, Joseph inquired which of all these denominations was right and which he should join, and was told they were all wrong"* Journal of Discourses, vol. 12, p. 334 (1863)




George A. Smith - "[Joseph] was enlightened by the vision of an holy angel. When this personage appeared to him, one of the first inquiries was 'Which of the denominations of Christians in the vicinity was right?' "* Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 78 (1869)




Wilford Woodruff - "How did it [Mormonism] commence? It commenced by an angel of God flying through the midst of heaven and visiting a young man named Joseph Smith in the year 1827. ... The Lord heard his prayer and sent His angel to him, who informed him that all the sects were wrong"* Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 324 (1869)




John Taylor - "None of them was right, just as it was when the Prophet Joseph asked the angel which of the sects was right that he might join it. The answer was that none of them are right."* Journal of Discourses, vol. 20, p. 167 (1879)




Oliver Cowdery - "You will remember that I mentioned the time of a religious excitement, in Palmyra and vicinity to have been in the 15th year of our Brother J. Smith Jr.s age that was an error in the type — it should have been in the 17th. — You will please remember the correction, as it will be necessary for the full understanding of what will follow in time. This would bring the date down to the year 1823."* Times and Seasons, vol. 2, p. 241 (1840)





Early testimony that the name of the angel who appeared to Joseph was Nephi, not Moroni.





"He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi." Millennial Star, vol. 3, p. 53 (1842)




"Again, when we read the history of our beloved brother, Joseph Smith, and of the glorious ministry and message of the angel Nephi"* Millennial Star, vol. 3, p. 71 (1842)




Joseph Smith - "When I first looked upon him I was afraid, but the fear soon left me. He called me by name, and said unto me, that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi."** 1851 Pearl of Great Price, p. 41 (1851)




Joseph Smith - "He called me by name, and said unto me, that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi."* Times and Seasons, vol. 3, p. 753 (1842)


So it seems there was uncertinity as to who delivered the document that gives men "burning breasts "


The bible says that no man can see God and live , It also says there will be many" false Christs" and that Satan is as an angel of light

I will leave you to ponder that my young friend