Book of Daniel not completely written by Daniel?

[RMDY]

I heard that the leading biblical scholars believe that part of the book of daniel, especially on the visions that predicated the rise of the four kingdoms, were not written by him and are attributed to an author around the 2nd century B.C. or something.


Is this true regarding those scholars, and if so, is there any sources that give a defense for attributing the entire book of Daniel to only the prophet and not some later period?

 

[jckstraw72]

modern criticism nonsense

 

[Protoevangel]

I heard that the leading biblical scholars believe that part of the book of daniel, especially on the visions that predicated the rise of the four kingdoms, were not written by him and are attributed to an author around the 2nd century B.C. or something.


Is this true regarding those scholars, and if so, is there any sources that give a defense for attributing the entire book of Daniel to only the prophet and not some later period?

This is based on one thing, the disbelief in the possibility of prophesy, it's a philosophy of criticism called vaticinium ex eventu (foretelling after the event).

 

[Macarius]

I agree with Proto. It's a view that assumes its own conclusion.

It assumes that prophecy cannot actually forecast the future. It then eliminates from the "original" text (or rather, determines what it thinks the original text is) by eliminating all places where the text seems to refer accurately to future events.

It then concludes that "look! prophecy doesn't predict the future!"

Classic circular reasoning based off the assumption of a purely materialistic / naturalistic world view. The end-game of a LOT of scientific inquiry is circular reasoning when it comes to metaphysical claims.

 

[Michael G]

EVEN IF Daniel did not write the book of Daniel, would that have any real impact on your faith in Christ? Not that I believe anything modern biblical historians say. I am with Proto on this.

 

[Michael G]

That being said, my favorite prayer comes from the book of Daniel:

Daniel 3:28-68

28: Then the three, as out of one mouth, praised, glorified, and blessed, God in the furnace, saying,

29: Blessed art thou, O Lord God of our fathers: and to be praised and exalted above all for ever.

30: And blessed is thy glorious and holy name: and to be praised and exalted above all for ever.

31: Blessed art thou in the temple of thine holy glory: and to be praised and glorified above all for ever.

32: Blessed art thou that beholdest the depths, and sittest upon the cherubims: and to be praised and exalted above all for ever.

33: Blessed art thou on the glorious throne of thy kingdom: and to be praised and glorified above all for ever.

34: Blessed art thou in the firmament of heaven: and above all to be praised and glorified for ever.

35: O all ye works of the Lord, bless ye the Lord : praise and exalt him above all for ever,

36: O ye heavens, bless ye the Lord : praise and exalt him above all for ever. 37: O ye angels of the Lord, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

38: O all ye waters that be above the heaven, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

39: O all ye powers of the Lord, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

40: O ye sun and moon, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

41: O ye stars of heaven, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

42: O every shower and dew, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

43: O all ye winds, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever,

44: O ye fire and heat, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

45: O ye winter and summer, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

46: 0 ye dews and storms of snow, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

47: O ye nights and days, bless ye the Lord: bless and exalt him above all for ever.

48: O ye light and darkness, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

49: O ye ice and cold, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

50: O ye frost and snow, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

51: O ye lightnings and clouds, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

52: O let the earth bless the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

53: O ye mountains and little hills, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

54: O all ye things that grow in the earth, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

55: O ye mountains, bless ye the Lord: Praise and exalt him above all for ever.

56: O ye seas and rivers, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

57: O ye whales, and all that move in the waters, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

58: O all ye fowls of the air, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

59: O all ye beasts and cattle, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

60: O ye children of men, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

61: O Israel, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

62: O ye priests of the Lord, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

63: O ye servants of the Lord, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

64: O ye spirits and souls of the righteous, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

65: O ye holy and humble men of heart, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever.

66: O Ananias, Azarias, and Misael, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever: far he hath delivered us from hell, and saved us from the hand of death, and delivered us out of the midst of the furnace and burning flame: even out of the midst of the fire hath he delivered us.

67: O give thanks unto the Lord, because he is gracious: for his mercy endureth for ever.

68: O all ye that worship the Lord, bless the God of gods, praise him, and give him thanks: for his mercy endureth for ever.

 

[Macarius]

And that prayer (one of the Odes from Matins, yes?) - which I agree is incredible - is excluded from Protestant Bibles as being part of the Deuterocanon.

That one really surprised me when I first read it - I was absolutely struck dumb as to why Protestants would remove such a prayer from the Bible.

 

[Michael G]

Yes, I know it is removed from the Protestant Bibles. IT is one of the most beautiful prayers there is, and they are missing out on it!

 

[beardedone]

What has been mentioned tends to fall in the category of the historical-critical method of biblical interpretation. It is pretty much the most popular form of biblical interpretation in academic circles--especially within Protestantism. I personally can't stand the historical-critical method of biblical interpretation in regards to the Old Testament. Hopefully, this method of biblical interpretation will quickly pass as nothing more than a mere fad.

 

[LinuxLurker01]

Regarding the critical method being discussed in this thread, I do find myself wondering if maybe the method does deserve some credence with regard to things like the dual creation/flood stories in Genesis. I asked a priest about it once and he pretty much took the side of the modern scholars, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that somebody in Orthodox history probably said otherwise.

 

[Coralie]

That's "The Song of the Three Children", yes? I didn't know it existed until I read "The Poisonwood Bible" by Barbara Kingsolver. She named each section after an "apocryphal" book. Good for her, it sparked my interest and when I read up, I was STUNNED (being a cultural Prot at the time).

 

[ArmyMatt]

I love how modern biblical scholars always seem to try to cast doubt on the authenticity of the Scriptures

 

[Michael G]

That's "The Song of the Three Children", yes? I didn't know it existed until I read "The Poisonwood Bible" by Barbara Kingsolver. She named each section after an "apocryphal" book. Good for her, it sparked my interest and when I read up, I was STUNNED (being a cultural Prot at the time).

Yes, it is the Song of the Three Children, aka the Song of the Three Young Men. If the protestants actually read the apochryphal work they dislike so much they might see it is beautiful stuff!

 

[Michael G]

I love how modern biblical scholars always seem to try to cast doubt on the authenticity of the Scriptures

Yeah, it blows me away how these so called scholars doubt the authenticity of the very thing they claim expertise in!

 

[ClementofRome]

Interesting article...

http://www.etsjets.org/files/JETS-PDFs/23/23-1/23-1-pp013-021_JETS.pdf