Bnp

[TemperateSeaIsland]

Culture moves and develops. What you are suggesting is like taking a wonderful feast and spraying it with preservatives to stop it from going off instead of eating it and moving on to the next meal. You'll end up with something putrid of no use to anyone.

Best analogy ever!

 

[GreenMunchkin]

In response to the OP... if these points have already been made, am sorry.

The thing is, how can the BNP claim to be upholding Christian values when by their own definition, Jesus Himself would be considered an undesirable. Do they believe He was a white man born within listening distance of Bow Bells?

Next, say you were to be witnessing to someone who isn't white, how could you in good conscience do that, and then support a political party that *does* consider them lower than yourself? And let's say the BNP had recently decided they no longer hate non-whites, they'll be saying that in order to reflect the mood of the state... how can you support a party whose fundamental tenet is so fluid? What's to stop them from altering them again if they were to get into power?

The BNP manipulatively appeal to people who are disaffected and feeling "forgotten" in "their own country". But we are called to live in a different way. If we feel soeone has wronged us, we are called to pray for and bless those who did it. How is this any different? The people who feel marginalized don't have faith in God to make things be ok in the end, either because they aren't Christian, or because they are nominally Christian, but simply don't have that faith. Do you come under either of those headings?

Christian values mean loving God, and loving people. "Love one another as I have loved you." Jesus' words to us. We are to love, regardless. When Jesus sent His disciples out to other nations, had they have had the BNP in power, Christianity never would have spread. Britain may still be a pagan country!

But, ultimately, no-one can convince you of doing something you don't want to do. Please take some time away from the influence of them, and really talk to God about it, because He'll guide you.

God bless. x

 

[TheLordReigns]

[quote=GreenMunchkin;35777260]
In response to the OP...
[/quote]

What's an OP?

The thing is, how can the BNP claim to be upholding Christian values when by their own definition, Jesus Himself would be considered an undesirable. Do they believe He was a white man born within listening distance of Bow Bells?

They just believe that Britian is full up, and that it's time to close the door on immigration. England is the second most densely populated area on the planet (excluding city-states and small islands). Your statement assumes that everyone can live where-ever they want, but the needs of societies just cannot allow for unlimited immigration. Remember God himself told the nations to spread out and settle down in tribal/ethnic patterns, and the apostle Paul confirmed that that was done for our own good. He placed us in strong cultural and ethnic communities because that is how we relate to each other best. We simply cannot afford to continually take immigrants. I'm sure you know about Global Warming. Do you also know about peak oil? Do you know that the ways things are going, we might see an economic collapse in the near future? Or that we might not be able to continue our oil-based industrial mass production of food? People like myself and the BNP are calling for a sustainable economy and sustainable population growth. People like yourself, though well-meaning, are recklessly increasing the population like there is no tomorrow. But there will be a tomorrow, and when millions can't be fed, people like you will have blood on their hands.

Next, say you were to be witnessing to someone who isn't white, how could you in good conscience do that, and then support a political party that *does* consider them lower than yourself?

The BNP does not consider them 'lower'. They believe that every national group should have their own land where they can live safely - not much different than what Zionist Jews want in Israel, or Palestinians in Palestine, or Tibetans in Tibet. Just because we do not believe that the whole world has a right to live in the UK doesn't mean that we think they are lower. I don't believe whites have a right to take over their lands of origin. I support nationalism, whether it is the Basques, the Tibetans, the Palestinians, the Venezualans, or the British.

And let's say the BNP had recently decided they no longer hate non-whites, they'll be saying that in order to reflect the mood of the state... how can you support a party whose fundamental tenet is so fluid? What's to stop them from altering them again if they were to get into power?

That is an issue of slight concern, though the party is modelled on a very democratic basis, and it is ordinary fed up people who now make up the bulk of the membership. If you don't believe me, ask someone from the NF, who hate the BNP and consider it a sell-out. But again, people like you have created this situation, and given us only one choice. People like you have created the BNP by not giving the people a democratic say in how their societies develop.

The BNP manipulatively appeal to people who are disaffected and feeling "forgotten" in "their own country". But we are called to live in a different way. If we feel soeone has wronged us, we are called to pray for and bless those who did it. How is this any different? The people who feel marginalized don't have faith in God to make things be ok in the end, either because they aren't Christian, or because they are nominally Christian, but simply don't have that faith. Do you come under either of those headings?

No, it's now manipulative. People do feel like that because they have become isolated in their own communities, and threatened by crime, and left wingers have ignored the plight of the white working class. Until now, that is, where the negative effects of immigration are now being talked about. See this article, for example:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/19/nrace119.xml

But you would ignore those natural, God-given instincts. You think all nations should live as though they were Christian. But it's not possible. People like yourself claim to love people, yet you easily fall into the left's utter contempt of those who have to suffer from their policies. Do you use the term 'white trash'? That's usually how leftists dismiss their concerns.
I do not come under those headings because I do not live in a multi-cultural society any more. However I don't like hearing things like my mum giving up her job because immigrants were mugging her on her way home. I don't like hearing that an immigrant tried stealing her handbag in a shop. I don't like my brother constantly telling me about incidents, or friends whose stories defy belief - all in areas that used to be very nice to live in. Multi-culturalism is not working, it's that simple, and why would I want to see more of it, when what I have seen has been an absolute disaster? But there will be a true multi-cultural world one day, but it will be under King Jesus, not under idealistic and dangerous politicians who live far from the disastrous effects of their policies.


Anyway, the feelings you condemn in people have now been confirmed by a leftist social scientist at Harvard
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/19/nrace119.xml

but anyone who has experienced the effects of mass migration shouldn't have needed to be told what the study found. I have seen towns turn from nice, closely knit communities to third world crime ridden dumps where everyone keeps themselves to themselves. I don't want that to happen to the whole country. Multi-culturalism is contrary to the way God has made us, and it's never going to work. Well meaning people, such as yourself, who have no qualms about imposing a Trotskyite communist social experiment upon the rest of us without any democratic consent, are responsible for the social misery that results.

When Jesus sent His disciples out to other nations, had they have had the BNP in power, Christianity never would have spread. Britain may still be a pagan country!

The BNP would not stop people of any race visiting the country and spending time. They just don't want mass immigration. They are not against limited migration. So that is simply not true. Joseph of Arimathea brought Christianity to these shores as a tin-trader, and later Augustine came with around forty helpers to reach the saxon tribes. These tribes were far more insular and protective of their culture and wary of foreigners then a BNP government would ever be.

But, ultimately, no-one can convince you of doing something you don't want to do. Please take some time away from the influence of them, and really talk to God about it, because He'll guide you.

I have talked to him alot about it, and I am set on the course I am now on. You support a party that believes in mass murder, an anti-christian beauracratic nightmare at Brussells, gay marriage, pc madness, and bulldozing over our green land to make way for more and more housing (glabal warming and peak oil notwithstanding). I think you need to talk to Him as well.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

What's an OP?

Original Poster/Poster

They just believe that Britian is full up, and that it's time to close the door on immigration. England is the second most densely populated area on the planet (excluding city-states and small islands). Your statement assumes that everyone can live where-ever they want, but the needs of societies just cannot allow for unlimited immigration. Remember God himself told the nations to spread out and settle down in tribal/ethnic patterns, and the apostle Paul confirmed that that was done for our own good. He placed us in strong cultural and ethnic communities because that is how we relate to each other best. We simply cannot afford to continually take immigrants. I'm sure you know about Global Warming. Do you also know about peak oil? Do you know that the ways things are going, we might see an economic collapse in the near future? Or that we might not be able to continue our oil-based industrial mass production of food? People like myself and the BNP are calling for a sustainable economy and sustainable population growth. People like yourself, though well-meaning, are recklessly increasing the population like there is no tomorrow. But there will be a tomorrow, and when millions can't be fed, people like you will have blood on their hands.

The BNP does not consider them 'lower'. They believe that every national group should have their own land where they can live safely - not much different than what Zionist Jews want in Israel, or Palestinians in Palestine, or Tibetans in Tibet. Just because we do not believe that the whole world has a right to live in the UK doesn't mean that we think they are lower. I don't believe whites have a right to take over their lands of origin. I support nationalism, whether it is the Basques, the Tibetans, the Palestinians, the Venezualans, or the British.



That is an issue of slight concern, though the party is modelled on a very democratic basis, and it is ordinary fed up people who now make up the bulk of the membership. If you don't believe me, ask someone from the NF, who hate the BNP and consider it a sell-out. But again, people like you have created this situation, and given us only one choice. People like you have created the BNP by not giving the people a democratic say in how their societies develop.



No, it's now manipulative. People do feel like that because they have become isolated in their own communities, and threatened by crime, and left wingers have ignored the plight of the white working class. Until now, that is, where the negative effects of immigration are now being talked about. See this article, for example:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/19/nrace119.xml

But you would ignore those natural, God-given instincts. You think all nations should live as though they were Christian. But it's not possible. People like yourself claim to love people, yet you easily fall into the left's utter contempt of those who have to suffer from their policies. Do you use the term 'white trash'? That's usually how leftists dismiss their concerns.
I do not come under those headings because I do not live in a multi-cultural society any more. However I don't like hearing things like my mum giving up her job because immigrants were mugging her on her way home. I don't like hearing that an immigrant tried stealing her handbag in a shop. I don't like my brother constantly telling me about incidents, or friends whose stories defy belief - all in areas that used to be very nice to live in. Multi-culturalism is not working, it's that simple, and why would I want to see more of it, when what I have seen has been an absolute disaster? But there will be a true multi-cultural world one day, but it will be under King Jesus, not under idealistic and dangerous politicians who live far from the disastrous effects of their policies.


Anyway, the feelings you condemn in people have now been confirmed by a leftist social scientist at Harvard
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/19/nrace119.xml

but anyone who has experienced the effects of mass migration shouldn't have needed to be told what the study found. I have seen towns turn from nice, closely knit communities to third world crime ridden dumps where everyone keeps themselves to themselves. I don't want that to happen to the whole country. Multi-culturalism is contrary to the way God has made us, and it's never going to work. Well meaning people, such as yourself, who have no qualms about imposing a Trotskyite communist social experiment upon the rest of us without any democratic consent, are responsible for the social misery that results.





The BNP would not stop people of any race visiting the country and spending time. They just don't want mass immigration. They are not against limited migration. So that is simply not true. Joseph of Arimathea brought Christianity to these shores as a tin-trader, and later Augustine came with around forty helpers to reach the saxon tribes. These tribes were far more insular and protective of their culture and wary of foreigners then a BNP government would ever be.



I have talked to him alot about it, and I am set on the course I am now on. You support a party that believes in mass murder, an anti-christian beauracratic nightmare at Brussells, gay marriage, pc madness, and bulldozing over our green land to make way for more and more housing (glabal warming and peak oil notwithstanding). I think you need to talk to Him as well.

To be honest, the parts have bolded categorically show why you are going to be impossible to talk to on a human, rational level. But, am absolutely willing to allow you to make erroneous judgements if those judgements make you feel justified in your position. If I was saying what you are, I would probably feel the need to do the same.

Your entire post is simply hate-filled rhetoric and passive-aggressive nonsense because you need to feel you've been pushed into being the way you are. Thankfully, we live in a free, democratic society where you are allowed to have abhorrent views.

Again, absolutely your call. It's all good, cos, really, you don't answer to us here. We're not moral arbiters. But one day, you will face Jesus, and you'll have to explain why you spat all over His gift.

I'm not trying to polarize you. If you open your mind, and start seeing the world as a Christian, even if you still have these views, it's a topic that needs to be debated, but until that time, your posts will just continue in a similar vein, and it's an absolute waste of everyone's time.

I say all this, not because I hate you, but because in fact, I love you, as Jesus has commanded us to do, and I am truly worried about all the hate and anger you have in you. But that's between you and Jesus. If you let Him, He'll cleanse you of it.

Will be praying for you. x

 

[VinceNoir]

I agree with the BNP there are far too many people in the UK so the BNP supporters should do the decent thing and **** off somewhere else, because they're not wanted. My great grandfather didnt die fighting nazism just for some hairy-palmed, inbred, nationalist idiots to allow it to set up shop here.

Does any Christian here view the ideas and teachings of Jesus going well together with fascism?

 

[sebastian]

It is an issue that we have more immigrants than we can cope with in some cases, however in some cases we need them, for example we have a nursing shortage in my area and we have been getting a lot of fillipinoes in to fill it. that's a good thing. if we have a skills shortage we need to fill it up with something and if people are unwilling to train in the UK then we must look overseas.
The BNP however isn't just worried about immigration because it states that it's ok if they're from the same European heritage. so despite the fact that there are looaads of European immigrants too, the same rule must apply to all ethnicities.
if immigration is bugging you then I think we should work with the parties we have, I don't like the extra baggage the BNP carries.

 

[TheLordReigns]

[/color]Original Poster/Poster



To be honest, the parts have bolded categorically show why you are going to be impossible to talk to on a human, rational level. But, am absolutely willing to allow you to make erroneous judgements if those judgements make you feel justified in your position. If I was saying what you are, I would probably feel the need to do the same.

Your entire post is simply hate-filled rhetoric and passive-aggressive nonsense because you need to feel you've been pushed into being the way you are. Thankfully, we live in a free, democratic society where you are allowed to have abhorrent views.

Again, absolutely your call. It's all good, cos, really, you don't answer to us here. We're not moral arbiters. But one day, you will face Jesus, and you'll have to explain why you spat all over His gift.

I'm not trying to polarize you. If you open your mind, and start seeing the world as a Christian, even if you still have these views, it's a topic that needs to be debated, but until that time, your posts will just continue in a similar vein, and it's an absolute waste of everyone's time.

I say all this, not because I hate you, but because in fact, I love you, as Jesus has commanded us to do, and I am truly worried about all the hate and anger you have in you. But that's between you and Jesus. If you let Him, He'll cleanse you of it.

Will be praying for you. x

No, I'm not filled with hate. If I were filled with hate, I wouldn't much care what happens in the future. You cannot dissociate yourself from the effects of the policies you support, just as you say I cannot. Am I wrong to say that we need a sustainable population, in view of peak oil and global warming? Am I wrong to say that YOU are part of the problem because you support policies that may lead to mass death (in fact you already do, when it comes to the unborn). Is that hate-filled? Or is it just a whole lot easier for you to dismiss what I wrote then to actually think about it? You could have just said 'no, i never use 'white trash', and I agree that people have suffered as a result of mass immigration'. Instead you chose to be defensive and accusative.
And why do you consider the imposition of mass immigration and demonisation of all who disagree with it to be 'Jesus' gift'? Did Jesus' father divide the nations at Babel? Is he not the originator of the great diversity we see in the world? diversity which is fast disappearing.

 

[TheLordReigns]

It is an issue that we have more immigrants than we can cope with in some cases, however in some cases we need them, for example we have a nursing shortage in my area and we have been getting a lot of fillipinoes in to fill it. that's a good thing. if we have a skills shortage we need to fill it up with something and if people are unwilling to train in the UK then we must look overseas.

I think it is a very bad thing. Let me tell you why. Firstly, many children in poor countries don't have enough medical help. As soon as people learn how to be a nurse or a doctor, the UK and USA and other countries offer them a load of money and they leave, leaving behind needy children and people in their own countries. Many people in those countries hate us for that, and see it (rightly) as an extension of white imperialism.
Secondly, we need to be paying our own people enough to do the job. It isn't that we don't have enough people, it is just that those in charge want to put profits first. We need to structure our economy so that everybody is given the training they need and the wage they need to do the job. Right now we have thousands of British (white and black) nurses and doctors who can't get a job.

The BNP however isn't just worried about immigration because it states that it's ok if they're from the same European heritage. so despite the fact that there are looaads of European immigrants too, the same rule must apply to all ethnicities.

The BNP are very concerned about the effects of all immigration on local workers - including european immigration. They are also concerned about the environment, about the unborn, about the EU, about housing, about the need for natural foods, about crime, about democracy, about animal rights, about peak oil, about global warming. They are the only party I can see that is concerned about all these things.

 

[Martin^^]

The BNP are very concerned about the effects of all immigration on local workers - including european immigration. They are also concerned about the environment, about the unborn, about the EU, about housing, about the need for natural foods, about crime, about democracy, about animal rights, about peak oil, about global warming.

Aw how nice. Cuddly little fascists, full of sincere Christian concern for the unborn and animal rights. I can't believe all those ridiculous stories of how fascists gassed millions of Jews, obviously that's another wicked lie put about by the global media conspiracy. They are such nice people.
Wake up. The BNP are a far right party whose chief agenda is the propagation of racial hatred. All the rest is shallow nonsense which they add to their propaganda to dupe soft-minded idiots into believing they are just another democratic party.

They are the only party I can see that is concerned about all these things.

Their uniqueness does not end there. They are probably the only party with a whites-only membership policy. They are also the only one whose constitution is commited to eliminating all non-white people from the UK. They are the only one to advocate policies of racial purity reminiscent of the Nazis.

If a black or asian Christian came to the UK seeking refuge from torture, BNP policy would be to send him right back to his gaolers because his skin was the wrong colour. You would be comfortable with that? Fine, go ahead and join them. Just stop pretending they are something they are not.

 

[Pogue]

Wake up. The BNP are a far right party whose chief agenda is the propagation of racial hatred. All the rest is shallow nonsense which they add to their propaganda to dupe soft-minded idiots into believing they are just another democratic party.


Their uniqueness does not end there. They are probably the only party with a whites-only membership policy. They are also the only one whose constitution is commited to eliminating all non-white people from the UK. They are the only one to advocate policies of racial purity reminiscent of the Nazis.

If a black or asian Christian came to the UK seeking refuge from torture, BNP policy would be to send him right back to his gaolers because his skin was the wrong colour. You would be comfortable with that? Fine, go ahead and join them. Just stop pretending they are something they are not.

I agree totally. The BNP have been working very hard to pass themselves off as a legitimate political party, entirely seperate from racial hatred and neo-Nazi extremism. What worries me is that people who do not consider themselves racist, and who are basically normal people, will get drawn in by the BNP on the basis of their main policies: immigration, and the phrase 'political correctness gone mad' (it seems to have become quite fashionable to say that anything you disagree with is a result of political correctness) I think that your average BNP supporter overlooks, or maybe is unaware of, the links that the party has with neo-Nazis, namely:
Nick Griffin's association with the terrorist organisation, the Nuclei Armati Rivoluzi, who committed 33 murders in four years.
Combat 18, a neo-Nazi group, were formed to act as stewards at BNP rallies.
The nail-bombing of a London pub, which killed three people, including a pregnant woman, and injured 129, were carried out by a former BNP member. In response to people who protested against the murders, Nick Griffin wrote that they were "flaunting their perversion in front of the world's journalists, [and] showed just why so many ordinary people find these creatures disgusting"
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...s_to_neo-Nazis_and_paramilitary_organisations)

Another useful link is here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/st...p_special/membership/organisers/far_right.stm

It scares me that somebody would vote BNP because of their policy on immigration alone, when a closer look at the party shows that they are not all that they are pretending to be.

 

[ScottishJohn]

You think all nations should live as though they were Christian. But it's not possible.

I think Christians should at least try to live as though they were Christians...

That is possible - through the grace of God.

34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

And just to head off any wise cracks about the seating arrangements - The righteous are on the right because Christ is facing them!

 

[GreenMunchkin]

No, I'm not filled with hate. If I were filled with hate, I wouldn't much care what happens in the future.

No, that logic doesn't fly, though. I'm not saying you're a nihilist, but anyone who supports a group like the BNP does so out of either hatred and anger, or they've been indoctrinated from early on.

You cannot dissociate yourself from the effects of the policies you support, just as you say I cannot.

I'm not sure what point it is you're trying to make. This really isn't about me, but briefly, I believe Lib Dem are the least of the evils, yes. Do I support everything they do? Not by a long way. Do I even vote for them? No. I give a spoiled vote every election, both local and national, and will continue to do so until I *can* fully support a political party.

But the difference is, and you keep skirting aroud this: the BNP is a white supremacist organisation. It started that way, and that's still what *many* of its members believe. You said yourself, it's made up of its members. Let's assume you really aren't racist, do you truly believe most BNP members are as thinky as you? Isn't it more likely the people who *are* most hate-filled and racist will naturally be attracted to a politiial party that has always perpetuated that sort of agenda?

Don't forget, Hitler called himself a Christian. And even now, people question Christianity because they believe if Hitler could be one, it must be pure poison. But do you think he was one? If someone says it, does that make it true? The BNP talking about revival is all well and good, but they sort of negate it by then saying a non-white clergyman is what's preventing the revival.

Someone made a very good point: if you saw a fellow BNP member attacking a black or Asian Christian refugee who had come here to escape persecution *because* they're a Christian, can you honestly say you wouldn't feel torn in what to do?

Am I wrong to say that we need a sustainable population, in view of peak oil and global warming? Am I wrong to say that YOU are part of the problem because you support policies that may lead to mass death (in fact you already do, when it comes to the unborn).

Back to the passive-aggressive. Are you really so arrogant, as to tell me you know my beliefs, and thoughts? You highlight the main problem... I am Christian first and foremost. Politics come in a distant second. You're putting politics ahead of your faith, though, and then skewing your Christianity to support your political views.

It's absurd to make out this is about global warming and oil. Tell me, did you protest at the G8 summit? Because if not, it would be easy to assume that's not a genuine concern of yours. Or is it that you feel non-whites are responsible for global warming, and removing them from society will suddenly and spontaneously rebuild the ozone layer and replenish oil supplies?

Is that hate-filled?

Without a shadow of a doubt.

Or is it just a whole lot easier for you to dismiss what I wrote then to actually think about it? You could have just said 'no, i never use 'white trash', and I agree that people have suffered as a result of mass immigration'. Instead you chose to be defensive and accusative.

Why would I think about it? Honestly. Do you really believe people who don't support the BNP simply haven't thought about it?

For your piece of mind, no, I have never called someone "white trash", because as a Christian, I would never judge, or denigrate someone. And, I disagree that people have suffered as a result of mass immigration.

And why do you consider the imposition of mass immigration and demonisation of all who disagree with it to be 'Jesus' gift'? Did Jesus' father divide the nations at Babel? Is he not the originator of the great diversity we see in the world? diversity which is fast disappearing.

Jesus died for all of us. He was brutalized, tortured and murdered to take our sins upon Himself. Hatred, bigotry... if all people felt about the world the way the BNP did, His gift would have been a waste.

You never did respond to my first point, also. Were Jesus in His earthly body right now, the BNP would want Him out of the country. Would you support them in that?

 

[TheLordReigns]

No, that logic doesn't fly, though. I'm not saying you're a nihilist, but anyone who supports a group like the BNP does so out of either hatred and anger, or they've been indoctrinated from early on.

That is so not the case. You have made up your mind that hatred is the only motive people have, and so further discussion is really quite pointless.

I believe Lib Dem are the least of the evils, yes. Do I support everything they do? Not by a long way.

That helps me to respect your position alot more. I cannot see how someone can support such a party and then condemn someone else who supports a party whose policies are good.

the BNP is a white supremacist organisation. It started that way, and that's still what *many* of its members believe.

It used to be that way. I absolutely deny that it is that way any more. There are still some in there, but that's why I think it's important for people like me to get involved. The average member is not what you think they are.

You said yourself, it's made up of its members. Let's assume you really aren't racist, do you truly believe most BNP members are as thinky as you? Isn't it more likely the people who *are* most hate-filled and racist will naturally be attracted to a politiial party that has always perpetuated that sort of agenda?

There is an increasing number of intellectuals joining the party, which is one of the things that attracted me to them when I began looking at the party a year ago. I don't expect you to believe me, but the articles section of their website impressed me a great deal. They have people joining from UKIP and elsewhere. People do join them who are hate-filled, but they seek to get these people to redirect their anger towards peaceful political goals, and to be angry at the policitians, not immigrants who are just looking for a better life. I think that is a very good thing. Some people don't like that and they either leave or they get kicked out, because they will not tolerate violence.

The BNP talking about revival is all well and good, but they sort of negate it by then saying a non-white clergyman is what's preventing the revival.

I have never heard them saying that. Can you offer any proof?

Someone made a very good point: if you saw a fellow BNP member attacking a black or Asian Christian refugee who had come here to escape persecution *because* they're a Christian, can you honestly say you wouldn't feel torn in what to do?

Of course I wouldn't feel torn. I would come to the aid of the refugee (Christian or not) and report the person to the BNP so they could kick him out ASAP.

Back to the passive-aggressive. Are you really so arrogant, as to tell me you know my beliefs, and thoughts?

Perhaps I'm mistaken about your thoughts, but let me tell you that you are very mistaken about my motives and thoughts.

You're putting politics ahead of your faith, though, and then skewing your Christianity to support your political views.

No I'm not. I'm a Christian first, but I believe I have obligation to do my duty for the country, which includes seeking to preserve its environment , to help restore its independence and democracy, and to do what I can to stop its Christian heritage from being wiped out with a perverse blend of secularism and Islamic radicalism.

It's absurd to make out this is about global warming and oil.

Its absurd not to. We are pushing our resources and infrastructure to the limit now, while we have the oil flowing freely. When those two things start kicking in, we could be in serious trouble. We need a long term approach, and so far I only see the BNP offering it.

Tell me, did you protest at the G8 summit? Because if not, it would be easy to assume that's not a genuine concern of yours.

That would be an absurd assumption. Such protests accomplish nothing, and are supported and carried out by people who vote for parties such as Democrats and Labour - that are just as much part of the problem - just as much run by global corporatism - as the Republicans and Conservatives. These protests are a false outlet for people's anger. For you to say that I do not have a genuine concern unless I go to a protest is nonsense. My concern is shown by supporting a political party that has a sensible manifesto for dealing with these issues.

Or is it that you feel non-whites are responsible for global warming, and removing them from society will suddenly and spontaneously rebuild the ozone layer and replenish oil supplies?

Actually I'm more inclined to agree with that American black professor who thinks that whites are destroying the planet (though I don't agree with his solution that whites should be exterminated in mass genocide). We have no moral right to tell India, Brazil, China or anyone else to stop industrialising. But we should lead the way in seeking to put things right - renewable energy, sustainable economies and population growth.

Why would I think about it? Honestly. Do you really believe people who don't support the BNP simply haven't thought about it?

I think most people are brainwashed to think whatever they are told. What have you thought about? What is the solution of the fascism of global corporatism which is destroying our world? Protesting at a G8 summit?

For your piece of mind, no, I have never called someone "white trash", because as a Christian, I would never judge, or denigrate someone. And, I disagree that people have suffered as a result of mass immigration.

Your denial of the suffering caused to people within the host community is very offensive to me personally, as one who knows many people who have suffered personally. I note that even the Labour party now are acknowledging that mass immigration is not all rosy - that it does harm especially the white working class. Your denial of that is, in my opinion, idealogically driven; for you need to deny that in order to demonise all who reject mass immigration.

You never did respond to my first point, also. Were Jesus in His earthly body right now, the BNP would want Him out of the country. Would you support them in that?

I said that God himself was the one who created the diversity in our world, and it was he who divided up the human race into nations, and that the apostle Paul confirmed this in his teaching. I want to see that diversity preserved, which is why I support all nationalist movements, in accordance with Wilson's fourteen points, irrespective of colour or creed.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

http://www.bnp.org.uk/articles/christianrevival.htm

I'm too tried to respond to the rest tonight, so I'll do it tomorrow, but I can tell you, I just went to the BNP site, and within seconds, a few things jumped out at me that just scream "RACIST! RACIST!" and just being at the site, and its link to "Great White Records" who are apparently about patriotism, but are advertising an American performer, who while white, clearly has nothing to do with British patriotism given he's, you know, not from here... when you go there, why isn't the Holy Spirit absolutely weeping in your ear telling you to get out?

Even the article I've given you... African drums??

I wonder if you've really prayed about this. As in, put down your political thoughts on it, and actually humbled yourself before God and asked Him what He wants for you to do.

Anyway, enough for tonight. Will respond in full tomorrow, but you are my brother in Christ, and am honestly and truly praying for you

 

[non-religious]

[TheLordReigns]
I said that God himself was the one who created the diversity in our world, and it was he who divided up the human race into nations, and that the apostle Paul confirmed this in his teaching. I want to see that diversity preserved

It's very sad to see someone woefully misinterpret God's Word in this way. To suggest that God caused divisions through the race of people and that Paul applied this to his teaching is yet another crude attempt of people fitting the Word of God around their views on life and not the other way.

I respect your opinion, but I absolutely disagree with the way you have tried to apply your beliefs to the truth of scripture. Love your neighbour doesn't mean tolerate them or merely acknowledge their existence. It means love them. I agree GreenMunchkin (nice name ) and I too pray that God reveals His true love both to you and through you.

Godbless

 

[non-religious]

[ScottishJohn]I think Christians should at least try to live as though they were Christians...

That is possible - through the grace of God.

Amen.......

 

[ScottishJohn]

Even the article I've given you... African drums??

Good point.

That article is actually fairly woeful. I am sure there are those who made similar pronouncements about Pipe Organs when they drifted in from the continent.

I also like the way that 'a friend going to a family wedding' becomes 'anecdotal evidence' which we are to extrapolate to cover the whole of Manchester.

My favourite bit is where the author realises that his article up to that point is suggesting that we might experience a revival if enough people are scared enough of islam to return to church ( based on his firend at a wedding and two quotes about muslim schools in one edition of the daily telegraph!!!), as opposed to through the pouring out of the holy spirit amongst a people who have accepted Christ. So he tries to change tack suggesting briefly that Christians 'both fully committed or just in name' get back to the fundamentals (usually a sign that we are about to hear an argument which ignores the bulk of the facts). This begins with the assertion that Christ was GOD (in capital letters for the hard of reading audience he is obviously expecting) and then he loses it again, rather than sticking with his ladybird book of Christian theology he jumps back to Islam and states that they must be in ERROR (capitals again) and WRONG because they believe that Christ was a man. Wow. What a thunderclap. The fact that you could approach all faiths on this basis, and that many people have, to absolutely no end, seems to have escaped this guy. What, I wonder, would happen when he seeks to enlighten a muslim and they turn round and say, no you have it back to front, you are WRONG and in ERROR, where does the argument go from there?

He then feels the time is ripe to jump back to 1565 and display a bit of Islamic brutality, convenienty forgetting to offer similar examples of Christian brutality from the same period (plenty to choose from), instead he provides an example of someone tied to a chair.

There are so many logical leaps in this essay that it actually makes quite amusing reading. I have a friend who is a lecturer in religious studies. I'd quite like to drop it into a pile of her first year undergrad essays and see what comments it comes back with!

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Do you know, I went researching, because I didn't want to discuss the BNP on the strength of their history... but it's so much worse, so much more painful, than I realised.

It's mostly men in this thread, so please forgive me if I have a girlie moment, but if you follow the trail of bread crumbs that starts at the BNP, they gradually become more and more rotten and festering until you reach the underbelly of the internet, and it's like the light can't penetrate it.

TLR, I can't stop you from supporting them. God gave us all free will, and He loves you whether you support them or not. But, I beg you, follow the same trail, and see if it doesn't lead you to "Blood and Honour", along with a hundred other sites that will make your heart hurt.

That's the thing, y'all are blokey, so perhaps your constitution is stronger than mine, but bro, seriously, you'll eventually come to a certain guestbook, and it's *bad*. It's so painful to read. I wrote my testimony there, because it was so dark, I had to re-connect with Jesus. *Had* to. I doubt it'll actually get posted, but I *had* to, because it's so pitch-black there, it really does feel like the light can't get in.

I know you'll say the BNP aren't connected, but they are. It's all the same people. They all have their fingers in the same pies. Many of them admit they used to respect Nick Griffin, but dislike the way he's publicly watered down his thoughts, while still believing them in private. They think he has no integrity.

Please, talk to God about it. Honestly, I cried for about an hour straight at the ugliness of it. It's evil, bro. The veneer the BNP have now... it's just not real.

Look, you say you're not a racist, and I do think you're right. But Nick Griffin is. And he's the most dangerous kind, because he's hiding it from public view. He's been quoted as saying they can't use the "n" word or discuss Jews in public because that'd make people think they were far-right and loons, whereas discussing Islam is allowed now so that's what they have to focus on... he just wants to get into power. If he were to, all hell would break loose.

You are willing to stand up for what you believe. Do you know how rare that is? When Christians are being persecuted here, you could be such a soldier for Christ. Even in the face of opposition, you'd stand up and be honest about your love for Him. Please don't waste that integrity by giving it to the BNP, because they're not worthy of it.

I know much of this post is probably quite emotional in tone, and am sorry, but have spent hours pouring through hatred and racism and evil and I feel panicky and physically sick. If you follow the trail, it'll make you feel physically sick, too.

 

[TheLordReigns]

But, I beg you, follow the same trail, and see if it doesn't lead you to "Blood and Honour", along with a hundred other sites that will make your heart hurt.

If you've really found that kind of stuff, then I want to know about it. Please help me out because I can't find this stuff, but if it is out there, I want to know! What kind of search words did you use, or what sites did you find? I think that a large number of fed up people are joining them based on what they stand for now, but if you have evidence that its all a veneer, I would really like to know, as this may change how I view them.

btw, I appreciate your prayers. We can all be wrong, and its nice to know people are praying.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Sorry for slow reply. Didn't really want to come back to this thread too much for a couple of days.

How are you? Did you find the same stuff? If not, will point you in the right direction.

God bless you very much